He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[wattie]

A contradiction of Mark 16:16?

No..

(Mar 16:16) KJV: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Notice the later part of this verse. Being damned is conditioned on not believing. Not on 'not getting water baptised'

Often we can put a verse into it's opposite and think it is true. For eg.. 'He that believeth and is not baptised shall not be saved.'

The problem is.. this is false logic. Not everything put in opposite of a positive statement is true. Just compare Mark 16:16 with John 5:24, 6:40, 10:28, Romans 10:9-10. Where is the weight of scripture? What is it saying? Do you establish a doctrine of water baptism for salvation based on a few verses.. or the full weight of scripture?

Same goes for Acts 2:38

Act 2:38 KJV: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This is ONE verse of a few that have baptism being put with remission (forgiveness) of sin.

Key question: Who is Peter talking to?

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

What were they called to do first? Get water baptised?

No-- repent.. having a change of mind, heart from God.

The other part of this..is being baptised in the name of Jesus 'for' the remission of sin.

In English grammar.. you can be given something 'for' an illness.

So.. you get water baptism 'for' the fact of already having remission of sin. Now.. so you will say I am just interpreting this to match my own wishes.. but what does the full weight of scripture say about eternal salvation? How many verses.. again.. have not water baptism in them.. but are about receiving eternal life?

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Act 2:38 KJV: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This is ONE verse of a few that have baptism being put with remission (forgiveness) of sin.

Precious friend, what do we then do with:

"And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God,​

being baptized with the baptism of John.​

​

But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against​

themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:29-30 AV)?​

​

?

 

[Burn1986]

Now you guys are debating this? 😳

Water baptism important but if for some odd reason, a person gets saved on Tuesday and the church is baptizing on Wednesday… If they get struck by lightening Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning before they can get baptized, they’re not going to Hell.

Omg, such a stupid debate.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

A contradiction of Mark 16:16?

No..

(Mar 16:16) KJV: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Notice the later part of this verse. Being damned is conditioned on not believing. Not on 'not getting water baptised'

Often we can put a verse into it's opposite and think it is true. For eg.. 'He that believeth and is not baptised shall not be saved.'

The problem is.. this is false logic. Not everything put in opposite of a positive statement is true. Just compare Mark 16:16 with John 5:24, 6:40, 10:28, Romans 10:9-10. Where is the weight of scripture? What is it saying? Do you establish a doctrine of water baptism for salvation based on a few verses.. or the full weight of scripture?

Same goes for Acts 2:38

Act 2:38 KJV: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This is ONE verse of a few that have baptism being put with remission (forgiveness) of sin.

Key question: Who is Peter talking to?

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

What were they called to do first? Get water baptised?

No-- repent.. having a change of mind, heart from God.

The other part of this..is being baptised in the name of Jesus 'for' the remission of sin.

In English grammar.. you can be given something 'for' an illness.

So.. you get water baptism 'for' the fact of already having remission of sin. Now.. so you will say I am just interpreting this to match my own wishes.. but what does the full weight of scripture say about eternal salvation? How many verses.. again.. have not water baptism in them.. but are about receiving eternal life?

I understand mark 16:16 to be speaking of the baptism of the holy spirit and not water.
I agree it is not a contradiction..

Mark 16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.



I had believed the gospel I was reading in the book of Mathew being taught how to pray and fast and forgiveness.One day I was praying and asking forgiveness and confessing Jesus had died for my sins,I received the holy Ghost.I was the only human in my house at the time.

While I was praising God and thanking him my telephone was ringing and I didn't answer it because I was jumping up and don't celebrating.Later that day I looked at the caller Id to see (1 James).

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Someone told me I spoke foolishness earlier when I told them they didn't need to be Baptised in water to receive the holy Ghost,they could just ask.
See verse 13.

Luke 11
11 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.

2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

3 Give us day by day our daily bread.

4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

5 And he said unto them, Which of you shall have a friend, and shall go unto him at midnight, and say unto him, Friend, lend me three loaves;

6 For a friend of mine in his journey is come to me, and I have nothing to set before him?

7 And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee.

8 I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth.

9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Jeremiah 13
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

 

[p_rehbein]

...and, once again, the baptism unto salvation is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, not water. Water baptism has zero to do with salvation. However, it is important for new believers to do because Jesus said to. Water baptism is the first act of obedience a new believer should do. It is important because the baptism of the Holy Spirit can not be seen by the human eye. It is a spiritual baptism.

Water baptism serves as a witness to both the Church and to mankind that a person has become a believer in and follower of Jesus. That is it's significance. You can water baptize a sinner from now 'till kingdom come and all you will have is a very wet and possibly angry sinner tired of being dunked.

Only the precious blood of Jesus can cleanse one of their sin. Only the precious blood of Jesus!

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

A contradiction of Mark 16:16?

No..

(Mar 16:16) KJV: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Notice the later part of this verse. Being damned is conditioned on not believing. Not on 'not getting water baptised'

Often we can put a verse into it's opposite and think it is true. For eg.. 'He that believeth and is not baptised shall not be saved.'

The problem is.. this is false logic. Not everything put in opposite of a positive statement is true. Just compare Mark 16:16 with John 5:24, 6:40, 10:28, Romans 10:9-10. Where is the weight of scripture? What is it saying? Do you establish a doctrine of water baptism for salvation based on a few verses.. or the full weight of scripture?

Same goes for Acts 2:38

Act 2:38 KJV: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This is ONE verse of a few that have baptism being put with remission (forgiveness) of sin.

Key question: Who is Peter talking to?

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

What were they called to do first? Get water baptised?

No-- repent.. having a change of mind, heart from God.

The other part of this..is being baptised in the name of Jesus 'for' the remission of sin.

In English grammar.. you can be given something 'for' an illness.

So.. you get water baptism 'for' the fact of already having remission of sin. Now.. so you will say I am just interpreting this to match my own wishes.. but what does the full weight of scripture say about eternal salvation? How many verses.. again.. have not water baptism in them.. but are about receiving eternal life?

But isn't it Biblical to take a verse or two that some are confused about, hang our hats on them: Then throw out the hundred plus verses that are clear on the subject of salvation?
🥴

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

...and, once again, the baptism unto salvation is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, not water. Water baptism has zero to do with salvation. However, it is important for new believers to do because Jesus said to. Water baptism is the first act of obedience a new believer should do. It is important because the baptism of the Holy Spirit can not be seen by the human eye. It is a spiritual baptism.

Water baptism serves as a witness to both the Church and to mankind that a person has become a believer in and follower of Jesus. That is it's significance. You can water baptize a sinner from now 'till kingdom come and all you will have is a very wet and possibly angry sinner tired of being dunked.

Only the precious blood of Jesus can cleanse one of their sin. Only the precious blood of Jesus!

True
Acts 1:5
Jesus said,

"For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. "

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit was to all who believed on Jesus, even those who were not yet water baptized in identification with Christ.

 

[Magenta]

Jeremiah 13
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Jeremiah 29:13-14a

 

[ResidentAlien]

It's simple--get water baptized. The Lord gave us His example to follow; all the believers in scripture got baptized right away when they became believers; and the teaching all through the New Testament instructs believers to get baptized. Does it save? No. But that's no reason not to get baptized when we have crystal clear teaching that we should. It's not rocket science.

 

[Beckworth]

It's simple--get water baptized. The Lord gave us His example to follow; all the believers in scripture got baptized right away when they became believers; and the teaching all through the New Testament instructs believers to get baptized. Does it save? No. But that's no reason not to get baptized when we have crystal clear teaching that we should. It's not rocket science.

Interesting that you say baptism does not save , when Peter says that it does.

 

[Beckworth]

Interesting that you say baptism does not save , when Peter says that it does.

1Peter 3:21. Acts 2:38 says it is for the forgiveness of sins; Acts 22:16 says it “washes away sins”; and Jesus Himself puts it BEFORE salvation —not after salvation.

 

[wattie]

1Peter 3:21. Acts 2:38 says it is for the forgiveness of sins; Acts 22:16 says it “washes away sins”; and Jesus Himself puts it BEFORE salvation —not after salvation.

'Save' does not always mean salvation from sin.

So.. a 'salvaged life' to God. Being a faithful believer...includes water baptism.

This is separate to belief on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.

 

[wattie]

Baptism that is 'not the putting off of the filth of the flesh' cannot save eternally.

 

[p_rehbein]

1Peter 3:21. Acts 2:38 says it is for the forgiveness of sins; Acts 22:16 says it “washes away sins”; and Jesus Himself puts it BEFORE salvation —not after salvation.

Re: Acts 22 verse... 16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Note it says calling on the name of the Lord. So, which cleanses us of our sins, water? Or calling on the name of the Lord?

Re: Acts 2 verse... 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Which causes the remission of sins, water? Or repenting? (first sermon Jesus preached was REPENT...in 4th Chapter of Matthew FYI)

RE: 1 Peter verse... 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: which saves us, water baptism? Or, the resurrection of Jesus?

Simply put, water does not and will never cleanse anyone of sin and provide salvation. ONLY THE BLOOD OF JESUS CAN DO THAT.

 

[p_rehbein]

Romans, Chapter 10:

8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Water seems unnecessary for salvation, right? Well, to Paul it appears so

 

[ResidentAlien]

Interesting that you say baptism does not save , when Peter says that it does.

What Peter said is irrelevant; what he meant is the important thing.

 

[Blade]

1Peter 3:21. Acts 2:38 says it is for the forgiveness of sins; Acts 22:16 says it “washes away sins”; and Jesus Himself puts it BEFORE salvation —not after salvation.

Acts 22 16 This was a call to express faith. His sins would be washed away however, through calling on the Lords name not by water of baptism. The only other place where this word "wash" is used is in 1st Cor 6:11 and there its the holy Spirit that does the washing. Peter made it clear that water baptism like the flood is only a figure counterpart, representation as in heb 9:24 Which are the figures of the truth. It takes more then washing in water, (the putting away of the filth of the flesh) to cleans from sin. Yes says saved by water but all agree that it is not the water itself but Christ who is symbolized by the act. Cleans sin comes by the shed blood of the son of GOD. God looks beyond the act of baptism and searches to see whether the believer has truly repented and dedicated his life to divine service.

John 3:16-17 Rom 10:9-10. If one sees baptism can save you missed the truth

 

[Shilohsfoal]

1Peter 3:21. Acts 2:38 says it is for the forgiveness of sins; Acts 22:16 says it “washes away sins”; and Jesus Himself puts it BEFORE salvation —not after salvation.

Do you understand the difference between man and God?

Man Baptises in water.It washes away the filth on the outside of the cup .
God baptises with the holy spirit.It washes away the filth inside the cup .A man can wash you everyday and it will never wash away sin.

Many of these people who claim they have the power to wash away sin in Jesus name will find out one day that they never received the name of Jesus themselves.It was never applied to them.

Mathew 7:22-23
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.