Mike Winger's "Why I think Calvinism is Unbiblical"

[Evmur]

I thoroughly agree with what you have written but it still seems that you are inconsistent for if man is indeed spiritually dead and incapable of doing anything to be saved then why do you insist that the cross of Christ is sufficient to save all when Scripture proclaims its sufficiency is found in its efficiency to save those that He has decreed to be saved by grace which is not according to the will of men?

because having believed we must also receive. We have to seal the deal.

God having subdued our will He is ready to will in us to do of His good pleasure.

Paul was told to go to the street called Straight in Damascus and enquire of one Ananias, there Ananias laid his hands upon him and he was filled with the Holy Spirit.

Cornelius of course must send for Simon Peter

These are not works as such but they are the process and we are active in it.

In another place Paul says that Christ was in him always only He was only revealed or made manifest at the time of Paul's conversion. Paul's conversion could never be said to be according to his will for his will was set to destroy the gospel.
Writing in Romans 7 he writes that when he wanted to do good he did evil instead, thanks be unto God Jesus Christ set him free from that bondage.

 

[Cameron143]

I have an entire Old Testament/Mikra that tells us no one but the Prophets were filled with the Holy Spirit.

It's the FACTS!

Everything wasn't revealed in the OT.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Everything wasn't revealed in the OT.

It was when it specifically says only the Prophets and High Priest were filled with the Spirit of God.

Everyone else was a natural man.

You are just making things up when the Mikra flat out tells us who had the Spirit of God and who did not.

 

[Cameron143]

I have an entire Old Testament/Mikra that tells us no one but the Prophets were filled with the Holy Spirit.

It's the FACTS!

Do you believe the OT supercedes the NT? And when did John 14:6 become true?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Do you believe the OT supercedes the NT? And when did John 14:6 become true?

TWO COVENANTS and they worked differently.

One even involved blinding/deafening the JEWS so a Gentile like you could be saved.

But in the first covenant even a Gentile like you could be under the Law.

 

[Cameron143]

It was when it specifically says only the Prophets and High Priest were filled with the Spirit of God.

Everyone else was a natural man.

You are just making things up when the Mikra flat out tells us who had the Spirit of God and who did not.

I'm not making anything up. I'm quoting scripture. Now answer the questions:
Does the OT supercede the NT?
When did John 14:6 become true?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I'm not making anything up. I'm quoting scripture. Now answer the questions:
Does the OT supercede the NT?
When did John 14:6 become true?

John 14:6 is the New Covenant!

 

[Cameron143]

TWO COVENANTS and they worked differently.

One even involved blinding/deafening the JEWS so a Gentile like you could be saved.

But in the first covenant even a Gentile like you could be under the Law.

Abraham wasn't under the law. And salvation has never changed. Always through Christ.

 

[Cameron143]

John 14:6 is the New Covenant!

So Jesus says no one can come to the Father but by Him, but that only applies to some?

 

[Cameron143]

TWO COVENANTS and they worked differently.

One even involved blinding/deafening the JEWS so a Gentile like you could be saved.

But in the first covenant even a Gentile like you could be under the Law.

God placed me in Christ long before there was a Jewish nation.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

So Jesus says no one can come to the Father but by Him, but that only applies to some?

Those under the Law were saved by the Old Covenant.

You just can't stuff up.

Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven before Jesus died. Elijah was under the Law.

 

[Cameron143]

John 14:6 is the New Covenant!

Every covenant was part of God's plan of redemption.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

God placed me in Christ long before there was a Jewish nation.

God placed Jesus as the one who would save Believers from the Foundation of the Earth.

 

[Cameron143]

Those under the Law were saved by the Old Covenant.

You just can't stuff up.

Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven before Jesus died. Elijah was under the Law.

People were justified by the law?

 

[Evmur]

It is the message that not all are saved which Christ plainly confirmed that God uses to humble men in order to search their hearts to see if they be in the faith, to make their election and calling sure and to work out their salvation with fear and trembling.

To say that nobody is excluded from being saved is to falsely state that God has chosen all to be saved. Men are to be lovingly told that God is indeed close to those of a broken heart and a contrite spirit but that He excludes the proud from being saved for He only gives grace to the humble.

Why do you continue to pursue a man-centred false gospel in which salvation is dependent upon the choice of men and not the choice and grace of God? In doing so you rob a perfectly jealous God of the glory of His salvation!

you can't see beyond this seeming impossible conundrum because ....

because you have chosen to learn these doctrines from men, good men, I think Calvin is a brilliant theologian, Spurgeon is beloved to me. Yet when I read that God predestined men to be damned I sought God and cried for understanding.

God will teach me as readily as He will teach Calvin or Spurgeon. But Calvin never asked God, that's right. He was caught on the hop by one of his students who put the case to him in a question "If God has predestined us to saved and others are not saved, doesn't that mean God has predestined to damn them"

Calvin was stunned, he hesitated a long time thinking about it before reluctantly acknowledging that it must be true.

It has only ever been a supposition based upon pure human logic. The scripture is silent and Calvin's greater wisdom would have been to stay silent too. But he was on the spot.

God does not work according to human logic.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Every covenant was part of God's plan of redemption.

The same God who gave us the details about the Old Covenant is the same God who told us about the New and He said they were different.

So you are now saying He lied?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

People were justified by the law?

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law

The LAW was not led by the Spirit because that is the New Covenant not the Old!

The Law = Natural Man!
They DID NOT have the Holy Spirit but still chose to follow God as Natural Man!

 

[Evmur]

God is light and in Him is no darkness at all but He decrees all things that come to pass for His greater glory even the evil that entered the world by the choice of man through the temptation of the devil to demonstrate His holy hatred of evil to the praise of the glory of His eternal justice and His holy love in saving His people from that evil to the praise of the glory of His eternal grace which never would have been known by men without the Fall.

Prophecy would be impossible if God did not ordain all things that come to pass. His people know this and can therefore trust Him in all things accordingly as did Joseph.

Gen 50:20 But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive.

That is mantalk.

The scripture you began to quote but veered off into commentary goes on to say it is impossible for God to be tempted of evil neither tempts He any man.

 

[Cameron143]

The same God who gave us the details about the Old Covenant is the same God who told us about the New and He said they were different.

So you are now saying He lied?

Another disingenuous post. I didn't say they weren't different. I said every covenant deals with God's plan for redemption.

 

[Magenta]

The evidence is throughout the Bible, and it begins directly after the first sin...Adam and Eve hide from God. Romans 8:7 says the carnal man is at enmity with God.
So yes,yes it does.

Born enemies of God, and the cross of Christ... hostile in their minds towards Him is how
the natural man is described. A slave to sin. Some are simply blind, apparently. Some of
the same ones deny they needed help from God in coming to believe. Inconceivable!
Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds, engaging in evil
deeds. I suppose they think that does not apply to them, either... Because the carnal
mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can
be. Nor that. So much Scripture gets denied on this point alone it is almost mind boggling.