The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
@Nufan

Christ’s one sacrifice is sufficient to take away our sins (whenever we repent).
False comment, Christs sacrifice took away sins whether a person repents or not, its by no means dependent upon the doings of man, thats borderline blasphemy,

Heb 9 26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

May God have mercy on you friend for such a Christ dishonoring comment
 
Oct 10, 2019
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@Nufan



False comment, Christs sacrifice took away sins whether a person repents or not, its by no means dependent upon the doings of man, thats borderline blasphemy,

Heb 9 26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

May God have mercy on you friend for such a Christ dishonoring comment
Well I would say that we're obviously at a disagreement.Now you could read it again.Maybe you misunderstood something or you're choosing the stick to your guns, you're obviously passionate about what you believe. But let me just clarify that 1 of us is wrong and one of us is right. How you feel, or what you think, or what you believe, or what your emotions are telling you, I'll let you in on a little secret. God doesn't care about these things. Cause god's justice and judgment is not determined by what you think, or how you feel, or what you believe. I do know this for certain, that in the old Covenant god commands that we die to our flesh natrue, and in the new covenant, we are still commanded to die to our flesh nature. So if you're flesh nature is still at work which I believe you have shown us that it is, then what are you expected to do now? You can rely on the law of Moses, or you can rely on the lawn of grace and truth. Now, it really doesn't matter if you call me heretical. It doesn't matter if you disagree with my religion. It doesn't matter if you think that I'm not holding up with God's standard of truth. None of that really matters. You want to know why it doesn't matter? Cause you're not the one that gets to determine that. Now you can use scripture to back everything but from what I've been able to tell so far.Is that you cherry pick and hold onto specific areas of Scripture to form your theology and ideology. You then form your relationship around that theology and ideology. You could include all the stuff that you're leaving out in those books to give you a more well-rounded understanding of what's being spoken of there. But I really don't think that you care much for the truth.All you care about is validating that your ideology and your cherry-picked theory is correct. You also shouldn't be trying to approach it and understand it from your perspective and understanding, but you should be trying to understand it from the perspective of a Jew. That knows nothing about Christianity who is under the law of moses and is now finally stepping into the Malchezidek order and coming under a new covenant of grace and truth. I do like the whole covenant idea that you're throwing out, but keep in mind that all those who submit to the law of grace come under covenant agreement, and in doing so must fulfill the law. Now you are not going to fulfill the law. Only Jesus Christ can fulfill the law. So how are we expected to respond? to Jesus says we must deny ourself, take up our cross, and to follow him. The question is are you doing that?
And I really don't think that you read everything that I sent you. Because part of what I sent you was actually going over both views. Both sides of the part of scripture that people debate about. So I didn't send you anything about God forgiving us of our sins whether we repent or not, That's one of the arguments that people will make pertaining to that particular part of scripture. Of course repentance is necessary for your sins to be forgiven. Although I would say that God loves us whether we repent or not. So you really should try reading it over again Instead of just searching through it, trying to find anything you can argue about without understanding the context and how it was Presented. God bless and good luck on your search.
 
Oct 10, 2019
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If Christ’s offering has sanctified us “once for all” and “for all time,” so it’s argued, then we don’t need to worry about mortal sins causing us to lose our salvation, since when God justifies us he forgives all our sins—past, present, and future.
Christ’s one sacrifice is sufficient to take away our sins (whenever we repent). He doesn’t have to offer himself again to merit the grace that forgives us of any new sins we commit. His death on the cross 2,000 years ago was sufficient.
 
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And I just understood now what it is you're saying. You're saying that christ forgives our sins whether we repent or not because we are all undeserving. I didn't realize that I was dealing with this kind of error. This is something you're gonna have to work out with fear and trembling. Obviously, Jesus and John the Baptist were just saying things for the sake of saying things. The first thing that Jesus sad when he started as mystery as repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. John the Baptist that was his whole ministry, repeit the Messiah's here repent. And then we also have the Lord's prayer.I believe the Lord's prayer will do a very good job at contradicting you're Beliefs. And I'm sure you'll cherry pick scripture that supports your view. But again, do you really think that God is impressed? Do you really think that you're gonna win over god with cherry picked scripture and your own way of thinking and understanding when it's very clear, not only through scripture and Jesus Christ and the apostles but also the Nicene creed, which is the foundation of the faith. I believe in the forgivness of sins the resurrection of the body and life everlasting amen.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
Well I would say that we're obviously at a disagreement.Now you could read it again.Maybe you misunderstood something or you're choosing the stick to your guns, you're obviously passionate about what you believe. But let me just clarify that 1 of us is wrong and one of us is right. How you feel, or what you think, or what you believe, or what your emotions are telling you, I'll let you in on a little secret. God doesn't care about these things. Cause god's justice and judgment is not determined by what you think, or how you feel, or what you believe. I do know this for certain, that in the old Covenant god commands that we die to our flesh natrue, and in the new covenant, we are still commanded to die to our flesh nature. So if you're flesh nature is still at work which I believe you have shown us that it is, then what are you expected to do now? You can rely on the law of Moses, or you can rely on the lawn of grace and truth. Now, it really doesn't matter if you call me heretical. It doesn't matter if you disagree with my religion. It doesn't matter if you think that I'm not holding up with God's standard of truth. None of that really matters. You want to know why it doesn't matter? Cause you're not the one that gets to determine that. Now you can use scripture to back everything but from what I've been able to tell so far.Is that you cherry pick and hold onto specific areas of Scripture to form your theology and ideology. You then form your relationship around that theology and ideology. You could include all the stuff that you're leaving out in those books to give you a more well-rounded understanding of what's being spoken of there. But I really don't think that you care much for the truth.All you care about is validating that your ideology and your cherry-picked theory is correct. You also shouldn't be trying to approach it and understand it from your perspective and understanding, but you should be trying to understand it from the perspective of a Jew. That knows nothing about Christianity who is under the law of moses and is now finally stepping into the Malchezidek order and coming under a new covenant of grace and truth. I do like the whole covenant idea that you're throwing out, but keep in mind that all those who submit to the law of grace come under covenant agreement, and in doing so must fulfill the law. Now you are not going to fulfill the law. Only Jesus Christ can fulfill the law. So how are we expected to respond? to Jesus says we must deny ourself, take up our cross, and to follow him. The question is are you doing that?
And I really don't think that you read everything that I sent you. Because part of what I sent you was actually going over both views. Both sides of the part of scripture that people debate about. So I didn't send you anything about God forgiving us of our sins whether we repent or not, That's one of the arguments that people will make pertaining to that particular part of scripture. Of course repentance is necessary for your sins to be forgiven. Although I would say that God loves us whether we repent or not. So you really should try reading it over again Instead of just searching through it, trying to find anything you can argue about without understanding the context and how it was Presented. God bless and good luck on your search.
Christs sacrifice took away sins whether a person repents or not, its by no means dependent upon the doings of man, thats borderline blasphemy,

Heb 9 26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

May God have mercy on you friend for such a Christ dishonoring comment
 
Oct 10, 2019
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And I think you need actually clarify what you think repentance means. Does that mean that if you were standing right in front of you I can punch you in the face and say sorry and then punch you again and not sin. Well I guess that means I can punch you in the face as many times as I want and be in right standing with God. How do you reconcile this?
 
Oct 10, 2019
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Are there sins that you're unable to turn from? Are there sins that have ahold on your life? I'm assuming that this is really the root of why you believe what you believe. Let me reassure you that if you trust and believe and follow Jesus Christ. And you lean on him and cast your sins upon him. And you make him your focus and your everything. Then you will be set free and overcome.I also recommend prayer getting into the scripture and a healthy community as well and maybe even some mental health
 
Oct 10, 2019
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Christs sacrifice took away sins whether a person repents or not, its by no means dependent upon the doings of man, thats borderline blasphemy,

Heb 9 26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

May God have mercy on you friend for such a Christ dishonoring comment
Let me start by filling you in on what has helped me personally. What does help me personally, is first denying myself of a thing that I found pleasure abd enjoyment in that took my focuse off of god. Second thing I do is I started developing a prayer rule. Then I started joining a community in the faith, then I started reading scripture on a regular and I started to make God, my focus.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
Let me start by filling you in on what has helped me personally. What does help me personally, is first denying myself of a thing that I found pleasure abd enjoyment in that took my focuse off of god. Second thing I do is I started developing a prayer rule. Then I started joining a community in the faith, then I started reading scripture on a regular and I started to make God, my focus.
Christs sacrifice took away sins whether a person repents or not, its by no means dependent upon the doings of man, thats borderline blasphemy,

Heb 9 26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

May God have mercy on you friend for such a Christ dishonoring comment
 
Oct 10, 2019
251
15
18
Christs sacrifice took away sins whether a person repents or not, its by no means dependent upon the doings of man, thats borderline blasphemy,

Heb 9 26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

May God have mercy on you friend for such a Christ dishonoring comment
What serious sins are you having an issue with?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
What serious sins are you having an issue with?
Christs sacrifice took away sins whether a person repents or not, its by no means dependent upon the doings of man, thats borderline blasphemy,

Heb 9 26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

May God have mercy on you friend for such a Christ dishonoring comment
 
Oct 10, 2019
251
15
18
Christs sacrifice took away sins whether a person repents or not, its by no means dependent upon the doings of man, thats borderline blasphemy,

Heb 9 26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

May God have mercy on you friend for such a Christ dishonoring comment
How is your response even related to the question that I asked you? I'm not even interested in trying to help you at this point because of you're pride and arrogance. You're going to refuse to accept help because it's more important for you to be right. Then to admit that your struggling with sins you can't overcome. You're obviously struggling, but how is your way working out for you?What's the fruit? Why don't you go ahead and share with us how your method of growing with God and having relationship with God has changed your life and brought about transformation,healing, and restoration.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
It takes away sins

One of the Great Blessings of the death of Christ, which applies to all for whom He died, and is the primary reason why His Death alone saved them, it's the fact that His Death took away their sins! They can't die in their sins as these may Jn8:24 !

He was manifested to take away our sins, if we're believers 1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

John here is writing to the Children of God, not all mankind. And Christ death results in salvation from their sins, because He took them away.

The writer of Hebrews taught this when contrasting the Death of Christ versus the death of the old covenant sacrifices Heb 10:4

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

But Christ death alone did, and by His offering of Himself, He sanctified and Perfected forever them He died for Heb 10:10,14! That is what taking away sins accomplished for all whom He died!
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,110
960
113
Atonement means Christ blood satisfies God's requirement of salvation where animal sacrifices could not.
 
Oct 10, 2019
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It takes away sins

One of the Great Blessings of the death of Christ, which applies to all for whom He died, and is the primary reason why His Death alone saved them, it's the fact that His Death took away their sins! They can't die in their sins as these may Jn8:24 !

He was manifested to take away our sins, if we're believers 1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

John here is writing to the Children of God, not all mankind. And Christ death results in salvation from their sins, because He took them away.

The writer of Hebrews taught this when contrasting the Death of Christ versus the death of the old covenant sacrifices Heb 10:4

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

But Christ death alone did, and by His offering of Himself, He sanctified and Perfected forever them He died for Heb 10:10,14! That is what taking away sins accomplished for all whom He died!
Does that mean you no longer sin bright flame?
 
Oct 10, 2019
251
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It takes away sins

One of the Great Blessings of the death of Christ, which applies to all for whom He died, and is the primary reason why His Death alone saved them, it's the fact that His Death took away their sins! They can't die in their sins as these may Jn8:24 !

He was manifested to take away our sins, if we're believers 1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

John here is writing to the Children of God, not all mankind. And Christ death results in salvation from their sins, because He took them away.

The writer of Hebrews taught this when contrasting the Death of Christ versus the death of the old covenant sacrifices Heb 10:4

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

But Christ death alone did, and by His offering of Himself, He sanctified and Perfected forever them He died for Heb 10:10,14! That is what taking away sins accomplished for all whom He died!
Acts 17:24 “The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;
Acts 17:25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;
Acts 17:26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,
Acts 17:27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
Acts 17:28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’
Acts 17:29 “Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.
Acts 17:30 “Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent.
Acts 17:31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.


Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9–10)

Are You a slave to any of these sins bright flame
 
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Keep in mind that paul is talking to the church who are saved in 1 Corinthians 6:9–10
 
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Does Christs Death alone take away the sins of them He died for ? Yes or No
You're not seeing it from the perspective of a Jew. You're also not taking the entire book into consideration. You're also not taking it from the perspective of who the people are that he's talking to. And since you have no understanding of the old covenant. That means that you aren't gonna understand what Jesus actually did and what he accomplished. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and established the new covenant. If you want to understand the difference between them then look in to the Malchezidek order, and it's laws and requirements, and then look into the Lavitical order and it's laws and requirements. Essentially Jesus was able to uproot the jews from the Lavitical order, which is rooted in following the law of Moses, and transplant the Jews to the Malchezidek order, which is grace and truth. In the Lavitical order if you wanted to have your sins forgiven, you needed a temple. They're in the process of building the third temple now. They now have an altar and sacrificed a red heffer. All the way up until now and the destruction of the Second Temple. The Jews had no way of having their sins forgiven since there was nowhere to go to offer their sacrifice, you need a temple for that to happen.You also needed a living animal, and you need a priest to have your sins forgiven under the old covenant. Jesus says come to me. Jesus is the perfect sacrifice, he is the payment for our sins to be forgiven. So yes, Jesus Christ death on the cross is what made it possible for us to go to God and have our sins forgiven as opposed to going to a temple and going to a priest and sacrificing living animals. But he did not do this so that you no longer have to repent and turn from your sins. But what you have to realize also as that repentance means to turn away from your sins. So those sins that I sent you in the post are the ones that you really need to make sure you're turning away from. Now you have free will, you could choose to partake in those sins. And if you do partake in those sins then you're walking in darkness and you are not a child light. To say that you're saved and that you're forgiven and that you're a child of light you would be a liar. In the same way. If you ask God to forgive you, but you don't repent and stop doing the offense. Then did God actually forgive your sin? No, he did not forgive your sin. Because you're still choosing to be a partaker of sin. It doesn't matter how many times you say sorry. You don't truly mean it from the heart. God knows the difference. So that's why I keep asking you. What major sin are you struggling with. I'm assuming it's pornography and masturbation, lust of the flesh. That's nothing unusual. That's nothing uncommon. That's something that you can overcome throught gods grace and what jesus accomplished on the cross. But you're not gonna overcome it if you aren't taking your sin and your relationship with God seriously.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
You're not seeing it from the perspective of a Jew. You're also not taking the entire book into consideration. You're also not taking it from the perspective of who the people are that he's talking to. And since you have no understanding of the old covenant. That means that you aren't gonna understand what Jesus actually did and what he accomplished. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and established the new covenant. If you want to understand the difference between them then look in to the Malchezidek order, and it's laws and requirements, and then look into the Lavitical order and it's laws and requirements. Essentially Jesus was able to uproot the jews from the Lavitical order, which is rooted in following the law of Moses, and transplant the Jews to the Malchezidek order, which is grace and truth. In the Lavitical order if you wanted to have your sins forgiven, you needed a temple. They're in the process of building the third temple now. They now have an altar and sacrificed a red heffer. All the way up until now and the destruction of the Second Temple. The Jews had no way of having their sins forgiven since there was nowhere to go to offer their sacrifice, you need a temple for that to happen.You also needed a living animal, and you need a priest to have your sins forgiven under the old covenant. Jesus says come to me. Jesus is the perfect sacrifice, he is the payment for our sins to be forgiven. So yes, Jesus Christ death on the cross is what made it possible for us to go to God and have our sins forgiven as opposed to going to a temple and going to a priest and sacrificing living animals. But he did not do this so that you no longer have to repent and turn from your sins. But what you have to realize also as that repentance means to turn away from your sins. So those sins that I sent you in the post are the ones that you really need to make sure you're turning away from. Now you have free will, you could choose to partake in those sins. And if you do partake in those sins then you're walking in darkness and you are not a child light. To say that you're saved and that you're forgiven and that you're a child of light you would be a liar. In the same way. If you ask God to forgive you, but you don't repent and stop doing the offense. Then did God actually forgive your sin? No, he did not forgive your sin. Because you're still choosing to be a partaker of sin. It doesn't matter how many times you say sorry. You don't truly mean it from the heart. God knows the difference. So that's why I keep asking you. What major sin are you struggling with. I'm assuming it's pornography and masturbation, lust of the flesh. That's nothing unusual. That's nothing uncommon. That's something that you can overcome throught gods grace and what jesus accomplished on the cross. But you're not gonna overcome it if you aren't taking your sin and your relationship with God seriously.
Christs sacrifice took away sins whether a person repents or not, its by no means dependent upon the doings of man, thats borderline blasphemy,

Heb 9 26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

May God have mercy on you friend for such a Christ dishonoring comment