Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#6,141
Oct 29, 2023
3,474
455
83
#6,141
Magenta said:
Is hearing to you solely a physical attribute and not one of understanding?

So that when someone says, I see what you mean, they are seeing something with their eyes?

Or, I hear you, means, they simply heard what was said? Or do they mean they heard with a level of comprehension...
Click to expand...
No. Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#6,142
Mar 1, 2022
19,217
6,610
113
62
#6,142
HeIsHere said:
Well at least you never tire.
Click to expand...
And you never answer. Just for the record, do you believe God is exercising love towards someone who is being cast into the Lake of Fire? Cast mind you. Which means He is doing so against a person's will.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#6,143
Oct 29, 2023
3,474
455
83
#6,143
Cameron143 said:
If you believe that all that occurred was separation then this explains the differences we have.
The reason we know something more happened in man is due to the responses of Adam and Eve. If nothing changed in them, why did their responses to God change? Why did they experience fear and shame after sin but never before? Why did they hide and cover themselves? Did these responses come from God? Why did God shed an animal's blood? Why was there a need for an alternate covering? Why was there a need for a covering at all?
Click to expand...
There is no indication that sin separated God from man. Rather it seems sin separated man from God. It was man who felt alienated from God. God was just as close as he had and has always been. God tried to persuade Adam and Eve that He was willing to forgive by extending grace to them despite their sin. The covering was for man's sake, so he could feel freer to draw closer to God It was not for not God's sake.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#6,145
Oct 29, 2023
3,474
455
83
#6,145
Cameron143 said:
And you never answer. Just for the record, do you believe God is exercising love towards someone who is being cast into the Lake of Fire? Cast mind you. Which means He is doing so against a person's will.
Click to expand...
Yes. Agape love is an affection elicited by an appreciation of the inherent value of the thing or person loved. Agape therefore hates seeing us devalue ourselves and others, and moves to minimise that degradation by separating those who would devalue others from the company of those who value others.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#6,146
May 21, 2022
5,900
2,287
113
#6,146
Cameron143 said:
And you never answer. Just for the record, do you believe God is exercising love towards someone who is being cast into the Lake of Fire? Cast mind you. Which means He is doing so against a person's will.
Click to expand...
I already answered this and then your compatriot blasted me for my answer.
And I have responded to your ideas in my responses even though not as a direct reply.

If God is love then God is love and He cannot be anything other than what He has stated.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#6,147
Jul 3, 2015
60,171
29,471
113
#6,147
studier said:
I've read in other posts how you have a primary focus on the heart. I've also supplied you with
quite a bit of detail on how the heart is spoken of in Scripture and how it overlaps extensively
with the mind and thinking. I don't recall any answer from you after I supplied that information.
Click to expand...
Here is a thread Cameron created a while ago... oh! More than a year ago... it may answer some of what you are asking.

What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved? - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#6,150
Oct 29, 2023
3,474
455
83
#6,150
Cameron143 said:
Your idea of love differs greatly from mine. Whatever you do, don't love me.
Click to expand...
Your idea of love differs greatly from scripture. Do you think love would let all the unrepentant tyrants of the ages into the millenium and the new creation in the midst of the righteous?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#6,151
Mar 1, 2022
19,217
6,610
113
62
#6,151
studier said:
I've read in other posts how you have a primary focus on the heart. I've also supplied you with quite a bit of detail on how the heart is spoken of in Scripture and how it overlaps extensively with the mind and thinking. I don't recall any answer from you after I supplied that information.

Yes, God gives man a new heart and for a reason clearly given in Ez36. Do you think that reason says so man can have Faith in what God reveals?

The topic we were discussing is Faith and whether or not fallen man has the faulty that can have Faith in God and what He reveals. It looks to me like you are not prepared to answer several questions about men having Faith throughout history and to respond to an explanation of Faith at work in man that simply requires the content from God to have Faith in.
Click to expand...
The heart is the wellspring of life. It directs thought, speech, and actions. If it corrupt, so is every thought, word and action.
I want to be clear here. This doesn't mean every thought, word or action is wrong or evil. But it does mean that every thought, word, and action flows from an evil source.
I also want to be clear that evil as defined by God doesn't mean wicked or dastardly, though these are found in man and are included in the spectrum of evil. What makes that which flows from the heart evil is that it has no connection to God as its source.

Consider for a moment how God created us physically. We need oxygen at least every 3 minutes or we die. We need water every 3 days or we die. We need food every 30 days. Physically, we are dependent on God for these things continually or we die. If it's true that the unseen things of God are known by the things that are seen, what might the separation of man from God mean spiritually? How might the heart of man that was designed to be sustained and nurtured by God be altered when God is no longer its source? How might man's thoughts, words, and actions be altered? And what might be required in man for this to be restored to man?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#6,154
Mar 1, 2022
19,217
6,610
113
62
#6,154
PaulThomson said:
Your idea of love differs greatly from scripture. Do you think love would let all the unrepentant tyrants of the ages into the millenium and the new creation in the midst of the righteous?
Click to expand...
That might seem loving to the righteous. How is it an exhibition of love to those cast into hell?
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#6,155
Oct 29, 2023
3,474
455
83
#6,155
Magenta said:
Does not answer my question. Where does the text say Adam and Eve felt guilt?

Or, instead of deflecting, you could just admit the text does not say that they did.

Of course that would also show another instance where you go beyond what the text says.

And I know how very much you hate to admit that you do that...
Click to expand...
Did Jesus not bear our guilt and our shame on the cross? Why would he do that if we do not experience guilt and shame from our sin?

Prov. 11:2 When pride comes, then comes shame; but with the lowly is wisdom.

Prov. 13:18 Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuses instruction, but he that regards reproof shall be honoured.

Rom. 5:16 for the judgment was by one (Adam) to condemnation...
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#6,157
Mar 1, 2022
19,217
6,610
113
62
#6,157
HeIsHere said:
I already answered this and then your compatriot blasted me for my answer.
And I have responded to your ideas in my responses even though not as a direct reply.

If God is love then God is love and He cannot be anything other than what He has stated.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, only yes or no please. Casting people into the Lake of Fire against their will is an act of love by God to those cast into it?
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#6,158
Oct 29, 2023
3,474
455
83
#6,158
Cameron143 said:
That might seem loving to the righteous. How is it an exhibition of love to those cast into hell?
Click to expand...
Do you think the unbelievers would be more at peace in heaven among the righteous than they would in isolation from the righteous. maybe they should get their own heaven where thy can be as they wish. Oh, wait. That's what hell is.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#6,160
Mar 1, 2022
19,217
6,610
113
62
#6,160
PaulThomson said:
Do you think the unbelievers would be more at peace in heaven among the righteous than they would in isolation from the righteous. maybe they should get their own heaven where thy can be as they wish. Oh, wait. That's what hell is.
Click to expand...
Not what I asked. You said because God is love that every action on His part is agape love. So, it's a natural question: how does casting someone into the Lake of Fire manifest agape love to the individual being cast in?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.