Mike Winger's "Why I think Calvinism is Unbiblical"

[Evmur]

The bride has 10 attendants, five of whom are wise. The bride is not her attendants.

Chaos is exactly what Jesus and all the prophets foretold, Jerusalem will be a rock of contention under which the nations will reel and stagger.

You betcha there is ww3 acoming. It's all in the prophets. Everything that God has ever said about Israel has always come to pass.

Jesus did not say the first will be damned and the last be first. He said the first will be last and the last first. That is to enter the kingdom ... they still enter.

And if the Jews were first but were chucked to the back of the line, and the church has now become first and Israel now last. Who is first and who is last?

The story of Joseph is the clearest most remarkable picture in the OT of Christ and Israel. All Israel rejected Him but He is beloved of the fathers. He became Lord and Saviour of the world.

... and lastly of all Israel.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I thank God that He washed my brain from the devil's false man-centred gospel which does not save anyone.
.

Yet when the fork in the road comes between what Calvin said and what God says, you always veer Calvin and not what God said.

Man is not absolutely depraved but totally depraved

Which has been proven wrong with the story of Cornealius. So again you veer to the man Calvin, instead of the Word.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

the covenants made with the Israel of old were conditional

The Abrahamic covenant was not conditional. it was unconditional and everlasting.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

God saves by grace and not by race. He has one wife and not two!

No one here ever said Jews were saved because they were Jews. And you're either incapable of understanding what you're saying, or you're ignoring it. God does not save by grace according to you. According to you God chooses who He saves and who He damns. That isn't grace. It's funny you can see it for the Jew the ACTUAL CHOSEN PEOPLE, they aren't saved because they are Jews, or chosen, that you scream about, but consider yourself elite and saved why? By grace? No! You believe God on a cosmic whim chose you to win the "saved" lottery and damn the person next to you to hell. Why? Cause he wanted to. THAT is perverted belief!!

 

[Inquisitor]

Romans was written to the brethren who were made up of both Jew and Gentile and it is both that are foreknown by God before the foundation of the world.

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Romans 11:1-2 is speaking of those among the nation of Israel who were foreknown by God unto salvation and called the remnant and not every person with an Israeli passport!

Rom 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The letter was addressed to Jew and Gentile, agree.

Though Paul is explaining why the Jews were severed from Christ, from the tree of life.

Paul also is directly addressing the Jews as the quote below shows.

Romans 2:24
For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.

We can clearly see that Paul is slowly explaining why Israel failed.

Context, context.

The Jews were foreknown by God, fact.

You said, "Romans 11:1-2 is speaking of those among the nation of Israel who were foreknown by God unto salvation and called the remnant and not every person with an Israeli passport!"

That's your interpretation, just read the text itself.

That has nothing to do with the usage of 'foreknew or foreknown' in the text.
'Foreknown' strictly applies to Israel in Romans 11:2. The Gentiles were not the subject of
Romans 11:2, Israel was!

Romans 11:2
God has not rejected His people (Israel) whom He foreknew.

Reading in the context of Romans 2 to Romans 11, we now know how to read Romans 8.

Romans 8:29
For whom He foreknew (Israel), He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Do you understand what reading in the given context means?

That is why it is not wise for a Calvinist to use quotations from Romans 2 to Romans 11.

 

[Inquisitor]

The Abrahamic covenant was not conditional. it was unconditional and everlasting.

You bet, God put Abraham into a coma, then established the Abrahamic covenant.

The shadow covenant with Abraham was fulfilled by Jesus in the New Testament.

 

[Inquisitor]

your false dispensational Zionist Christian eschatology is resulting in the current chaos throughout the world which is leading to WW3 and people like yourself foolishly wish to see this world blown up in order to somehow think you can quicken the coming of Christ and be removed from any suffering through an unbiblical rapture.

You have been deceived by Darby and Schofield into thinking the current nation of Israel is fulfilling prophecy when in fact it is a counterfeit of Satan to deceive those who do not love the truth.

The proof of your false eschatology is the perverted Gospel people like yourself proclaim which in itself is the greatest judgement God can place upon anyone.

I have now warned you many times that the true Jew according to Scripture is not he who is born of the flesh but he who is born again in Christ's New Covenant. God saves by grace and not by race. He has one wife and not two!

Paul said the Jew comes first in God's plan.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation
to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Paul is discussing the nation of Israel in Romans 2 to Romans 11, not the Gentiles.

God foreknew Israel throughout history.

Israel were hardened in regards to Jesus, they stumbled over Jesus.

Israel became the enemies of Christianity.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

You bet, God put Abraham into a coma, then established the Abrahamic covenant.

The shadow covenant with Abraham was fulfilled by Jesus in the New Testament.

But the land promise has yet to be fulfilled, that was part of what God promised.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Paul said the Jew comes first in God's plan.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation
to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Paul is discussing the nation of Israel in Romans 2 to Romans 11, not the Gentiles.

God foreknew Israel throughout history.

Israel were hardened in regards to Jesus, they stumbled over Jesus.

Israel became the enemies of Christianity.

Blinded for a time. Romans 11

 

[maxamir]

you can't get out of this, will you acknowledge God's word or your own idol? The covenant God made with Abraham was conditional upon grace only, the dispensation of the law was temporary and whether they were blest or cursed was conditional
God's new covenant is with the house of Israel, not the seed of Israel ... we Gentiles have been graciously invited to partake of it and become co-heritors, fellow citizens.

...we are not invited to behave like cuckoos and push the natural chicks out of the nest.

This prideful attitude Paul warns against.

God's New Covenant is with the Israel that is free in Christ and not the Israel that is still in bondage.

Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,
Gal 4:24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—
Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

 

[maxamir]

The bride has 10 attendants, five of whom are wise. The bride is not her attendants.

Chaos is exactly what Jesus and all the prophets foretold, Jerusalem will be a rock of contention under which the nations will reel and stagger.

You betcha there is ww3 acoming. It's all in the prophets. Everything that God has ever said about Israel has always come to pass.

especially its destruction prophesied by Daniel which Christ confirmed.

Dan 9:26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Mat_23:38 See! Your house is left to you desolate;

The true Jerusalem today is made up of those in Christ.

Gal_4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Heb_12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

Rev_3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

Rev_21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

God's New Covenant is with the Israel that is free in Christ and not the Israel that is still in bondage.

Everlasting means exactly that. He wouldn't have said it if He didn't mean it.

 

[maxamir]

you can cut that trollop all you like my faith has stood for more than 45 years through many trials and tribulations. I stand by God's grace only.

Did you read what Jesus did with His sheep in order to search for His lost one? He parked them in the wilderness.

if you call God electing His people and calling them sheep, trollop, then I fear that you do not yet know the God of Holy Scripture and have been seduced by deceiving spirits which have led you astray, for to deny God's sovereign election is tantamount to denying the Trinity.

 

[maxamir]

I am not hyper grace, nor hyper dispensationalism, nor am I one who believes in universal salvation.

YOU are the only hyper here, hyper Calvin, Strict and Particular.

Do not I pray you become a hyper viper.

you are proving your inconsistency by saying you are not a universalist but insist that Christ death was sufficient to save every single person depending upon that persons belief and not upon the free sovereign particular grace of God given to secure salvation for those who are granted that grace to believe on Christ.

Adding a curse on me in your response is further proof that you are still far from the Kingdom of God, no matter how holy you may claim to be.

Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

I will instead obey Christ and continue pray for you.

Mat_5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

 

[maxamir]

Yet when the fork in the road comes between what Calvin said and what God says, you always veer Calvin and not what God said.




Which has been proven wrong with the story of Cornealius. So again you veer to the man Calvin, instead of the Word.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

View attachment 264720

A pity that he thought so. But he now knows he was wrong. God is no respector of persons. He didn't create certain people to live and certain people to be damned. I will continue to say it, the Bible doesn't teach it. Cornealus was one example that debunks that idea.

 

[maxamir]

The Abrahamic covenant was not conditional. it was unconditional and everlasting.

Israel did not exist until Jacob was born. The covenant to Abraham was that in his seed all nations would be blessed and not the one which broke God's covenants with them.

Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."

Gal 3:14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Stop being a child of Hagar and come to Christ!

Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,
Gal 4:24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—
Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

 

[maxamir]

No one here ever said Jews were saved because they were Jews. And you're either incapable of understanding what you're saying, or you're ignoring it. God does not save by grace according to you. According to you God chooses who He saves and who He damns. That isn't grace. It's funny you can see it for the Jew the ACTUAL CHOSEN PEOPLE, they aren't saved because they are Jews, or chosen, that you scream about, but consider yourself elite and saved why? By grace? No! You believe God on a cosmic whim chose you to win the "saved" lottery and damn the person next to you to hell. Why? Cause he wanted to. THAT is perverted belief!!

you just called the Scriptures perverse for it is only by grace that God has chosen some unto salvation and the rest are justly damned by way of their sin to glorify His perfectly good, holy, righteous, eternal and just wrath which every person deserves but thanks be to God that He has decided to save some who are very few in number to glorify His eternal grace, mercy and love and are humbled to submit to Him as the Potter, which you are yet to do.

Rom 9:18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

 

[maxamir]

The letter was addressed to Jew and Gentile, agree.

Though Paul is explaining why the Jews were severed from Christ, from the tree of life.

Paul also is directly addressing the Jews as the quote below shows.

Romans 2:24
For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.

We can clearly see that Paul is slowly explaining why Israel failed.

Context, context.

The Jews were foreknown by God, fact.

You said, "Romans 11:1-2 is speaking of those among the nation of Israel who were foreknown by God unto salvation and called the remnant and not every person with an Israeli passport!"

That's your interpretation, just read the text itself.

That has nothing to do with the usage of 'foreknew or foreknown' in the text.
'Foreknown' strictly applies to Israel in Romans 11:2. The Gentiles were not the subject of
Romans 11:2, Israel was!

Romans 11:2
God has not rejected His people (Israel) whom He foreknew.

Reading in the context of Romans 2 to Romans 11, we now know how to read Romans 8.

Romans 8:29
For whom He foreknew (Israel), He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Do you understand what reading in the given context means?

That is why it is not wise for a Calvinist to use quotations from Romans 2 to Romans 11.

God indeed has not rejected His people from the Old Covenant and has chosen a very small remnant from among them just as He has also done among the Gentiles whom He foreknew.

Rom 11:4 But what does the divine response say to him? "I HAVE RESERVED FOR MYSELF SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."
Rom 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


These are those to whom the promise was given to Abraham.

Gal 3:7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "AND TO YOUR SEED," who is Christ.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Gal 4:9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?

 

[maxamir]

Paul said the Jew comes first in God's plan.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation
to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Paul is discussing the nation of Israel in Romans 2 to Romans 11, not the Gentiles.

God foreknew Israel throughout history.

Israel were hardened in regards to Jesus, they stumbled over Jesus.

Israel became the enemies of Christianity.

God is no respecter of persons and the nation of Israel was seen as a shadow and type of all of God's chosen people throughput the whole world as was promised to Abraham. This nation was completely destroyed as prophesied in 70AD and along with it all of the systems of the Old Covenant to usher in the New Covenant based upon better promises given to all nations in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.