The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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brightfame52

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fredoheaven said:
Yes if we enter in through faith.
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Aint no if about it, His Death brings us to God in Faith. Faith is included in the bringing sir.

Thats why it reads them that come to God BY HIM Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

That word by is the prep dia and means:
    1. of means
      1. by
      2. by the means of
  2. through
    1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
      1. by reason of
      2. on account of
      3. because of for this reason
      4. therefore
      5. on this account

The word come in Heb 7:25 denotes believe Jn 6:35


And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Your problem is you refuse to Give Christ all the Credit for ones Salvation, thats not good friend
 
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brightfame52

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It makes men free indeed !

Jn 8:36

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Jesus here is speaking here of the effects, consequences of His Death, and it alone, and nothing of what a man does, but men are passive and strictly recipients of His action of making them free. This Truth is denied in false religion today, the antichrist gospels !

The Son here is Jesus Christ Himself, the Son of God, yeah even God the Son, the Word of God Jn 1:1. The word make denotes Christ's Sovereignty, His Power, and therewith He makes men free.

The words "shall make you free" eleuthero does mean:


  1. to make free
  2. set at liberty: from the dominion of sin

    Christ makes those He died for free from the dominion of sin, or unbelief. By nature men as sinners are under the power, dominion of sin and unbelief, we are sold under sin by nature Rom 7:14

    For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Sold under the control, dominion of sin, under the authority of it.

    Remember the Elect Vessels of Mercy were given to be under the control, prison of unbelief Rom 11:32

    For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    What does it mean to be concluded "by God" in unbelief ? It means to be under the power, prison, control of unbelief, this is the case of all men by nature, elect and non elect !

    The word concluded sugkleió means to make subject to, by nature God has made all men subject to unbelief,

    being under domination, control, or influence of unbelief ! Now this is what the Son receives credit for, in making them free from it, for whom He died ! 60
 
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reneweddaybyday

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brightfame52 said:
every sinner Christ died for
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brightfam52 said:
The Penal law has been satisfied for them
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if people do not believe, they will be judged according to the law notwithstanding the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind ... that is why salvation is wholly by grace through faith. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior ... trust that what God tells you in His Word is absolutely true ... He is faithful Who promised

Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein [in the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
.
 
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brightfame52

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reneweddaybyday said:
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if people do not believe, they will be judged according to the law notwithstanding the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind ... that is why salvation is wholly by grace through faith. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior ... trust that what God tells you in His Word is absolutely true ... He is faithful Who promised

Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein [in the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
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You fight hard against the Saving Death of Christ !
 
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Nufan

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Bob-Carabbio said:
Yup, and I told you what the atonement accomplishes, and you disagreed.
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The only answer he satisfied with is admitting that it doesn't matter if you believe in Christ and what he did for you or not.That Christ has taken away sin from everybody whether they repent or not, and therefore we are all saved whether we consciously choose to follow christ or not. This is what the big arguments about.
 
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Nufan

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brightfame52 said:
Okay and you should already know why.DUH
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Brightfame52 you serve a weak and little god. The God I know and love and serve is a righteous God. And in like manner, he demands righteousness from those who follow him and desire to be with him. Of course, this is impossible for us to do. That's where the grace of God comes in and that's where we're also required to cooperate with God. So, just as in revelation, it's the outpouring of God's wrath. Jesus returns, he's not coming to share love. He's not coming to share and offer forgiveness. He's coming to shed blood. To bring destruction judgment and pour out wrath upon the earth. Jesus will return with the anger of God. Just keep in mind that when you die and you stand before God. Just as it is in revelation it will be for you when you stand before the judgment seat.

Revelation 16:1-11
1-2 Then I heard a mighty voice from the Temple say to the seven angels, “Go your ways and pour out on the earth the seven bowls containing God’s wrath.” So the first angel left the Temple and poured out his bowl on the earth, and horrible, malignant sores broke out on everyone who had the mark of the beast and who worshiped his statue.

3-4 Then the second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it became like the blood of a corpse. And everything in the sea died. Then the third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs, and they became blood. 5-6 And I heard the angel who had authority over all water saying, “You are just, O Holy One, who is and who always was, because you have sent these judgments. Since they shed the blood of your holy people and your prophets, you have given them blood to drink. It is their just reward.” 7 And I heard a voice from the altar, saying, “Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, your judgments are true and just.”

8-9 Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, causing it to scorch everyone with its fire. Everyone was burned by this blast of heat, and they cursed the name of God, who had control over all these plagues. They did not repent of their sins and turn to God and give him glory. 10-11 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom was plunged into darkness. His subjects ground their teeth in anguish, and they cursed the God of heaven for their pains and sores. But they did not repent of their evil deeds and turn to God.
 
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brightfame52

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They are made free from Spiritual Darkness:

properly, set free, release from bondage; (figuratively) to remove the restrictions of sin (darkness) because delivered by God into true spiritual liberty (growth)

By nature men are not only in darkness of which the elect are called out of 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Col 1:13

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


Paul writes that we were sometimes darkness Eph 5:8

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

But now, those Christ died for are made free from darkness, even spiritual darkness. If anyone Christ died for isnt delivered from darkness, His death failed its power and purpose ! 61
 
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Nufan

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brightfame52 said:
They are made free from Spiritual Darkness:

properly, set free, release from bondage; (figuratively) to remove the restrictions of sin (darkness) because delivered by God into true spiritual liberty (growth)

By nature men are not only in darkness of which the elect are called out of 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Col 1:13

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


Paul writes that we were sometimes darkness Eph 5:8

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

But now, those Christ died for are made free from darkness, even spiritual darkness. If anyone Christ died for isnt delivered from darkness, His death failed its power and purpose ! 61
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Well, I reject this doctrine because I don't believe that God's Power and purpose is to save everyone.
Since I am rejecting this doctrine what's in Store for me? And I need to clarify that it is God's will to save everyone. But he does not use his power or imposes purpose for everyone to be saved. Cause I believe that each person has a choice and God will honor that. What about those who want to go to hell? Who don't want to be with God. What about those who choose to walk the left hand path? What about those who despise God? What about those who love darkness? Where will they go?
 
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Nufan

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brightfame52 said:
They are made free from Spiritual Darkness:

properly, set free, release from bondage; (figuratively) to remove the restrictions of sin (darkness) because delivered by God into true spiritual liberty (growth)

By nature men are not only in darkness of which the elect are called out of 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Col 1:13

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


Paul writes that we were sometimes darkness Eph 5:8

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

But now, those Christ died for are made free from darkness, even spiritual darkness. If anyone Christ died for isnt delivered from darkness, His death failed its power and purpose ! 61
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Really the whole point I'm trying to make is your sharing a deemasculated gospel that has no power and no authority. Because it doesn't demand that I come into alignment and agreement. I don't have to repent. I'm already saved. I don't have to follow your dogma. I alredy Earned salvation through Jesus Christ, so therefore. There's no reason to even have a conversation. There's no reason for you to even convince others to accept this dogma. There is no urgency or fear towards god. And therefore the whole idea and concept of someone being blasphemous or someone being heretical doesn't even have any kind of relevance or authenticity to it. Because really what you're saying is, it doesn't matter. I can basically live how I want.Believe what I want.Do what I want.I can accept what dogma I want. Why be righteous? When I could just enjoy pleasure. Feeding the flesh and following after my broken human nature. I'm already saved.I'm already forgiven, Therefore, your faith is fruitless. Your walk with God is fruitless. Your fellowship is fruitless. Your dogma is fruitless. Valuing my own and others life is fruitless. Because obviously I'm gonna end up in paradise according to your dogma.
You're taking things out of scripture that are out of context and your implying misguided meaning. According to your dogma and the way you've been interacting with us I see it like this. It's like we all agree to go to Disneyland right, and we're all in the car. We're driving to Disneyland and you're in the back seat saying. Why aren't we going to Disneyland? I reply, we're heading to Disneyland. Then you say, no, that's borderline blasphemy. You then pull out the map and you say. This is how you get to disneyland. You're showing us how to get there from San Diego CA, when we're starting from Redding CA. You keep pointing out how traveling the 5 is correct, but you keep pointing out that we should be traveling North, but we're traveling South. When we arrive to Disneyland you simply say. I think you guys are wrong and i'm right, but we're all destined to go to disneyland eventually. So it doesn't matter which direction we go. We all end up there.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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Nufan said:
The only answer he satisfied with is admitting that it doesn't matter if you believe in Christ and what he did for you or not. That Christ has taken away sin from everybody whether they repent or not, and therefore we are all saved whether we consciously choose to follow christ or not. This is what the big arguments about.
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Sounds like he could be the Pope, who seems to be teaching the same lie to his Roman Catholic victims.
 
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Nufan

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Bob-Carabbio said:
Sounds like he could be the Pope, who seems to be teaching the same lie to his Roman Catholic victims.
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Also I believe that if you're gonna throw a whole religion under the bus due to one man then you're really just attacking a group of people with little understanding of what's going on. Pope Francis, what he was saying is that if atheist do good then they will be saved. So therefore, he's extending grace and not requiring works. Based on his understanding of what scripture sayes, he also makes it clear that if God were to judge all of us, and condemn all of us, based on our works, then we would all be dammed. Therefore, it is only through god's love and his grace that we are saved. He makes that very clear. I understand that Pope Francis is trying to extend mercy and love and tolerance towards people of all cultures and backgrounds. He didn't say that the sinners would be saved or that repentance isn't needed to be saved. He said that all races all nations all cultures are offered salvation and that God desires for the entire world to be saved. That it is our responsibility to share the gospel with all people and to take it to the ends of the Earth. This is nothing Anti-biblical. What he's coming against is he's coming against the very strict and rigid view of Catholicism from the past. That says you must be Catholic to be saved. There is no other faith that will bring you to salvation. That's what he's coming against.So I really think that you're going into this blind and gnorantly, because he's basically saying that as a protestant. He's agreeing that god is offering you salvation if you do good and that this is not determined on your race or nationality or culture. And guess what?When you actually look into what he's saying, you may decide that you agree with him. Although he's done a lot of things, said a lot of things, and he's allowed a lot of things to happen, I believe that he needs a lot of prayer and a lot of guidance for. We are all human and fall short and i'm sure a lot of the things that you disagree with pertaining to the pope, majority of catholics would agree with you, that these are issues. I'm not gonna speak anymore on Catholicism. Because this isn't the place for it. I don't want to make this about the Catholic Church and what you like about it and what you don't like about it. We are just here discussing, people are allowed to disagree. The only group of christians that may have a hard time with what i'm sharing are reformed protestants And hypergrace dogmas.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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Nufan said:
Also I believe that if you're gonna throw a whole religion under the bus due to one man then you're really just attacking a group of people with little understanding of what's going on. Pope Francis, what he was saying is that if atheist do good then they will be saved.
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Except that the BIBLE doesn't say ANY OF THAT. I take it that you're just another "Universalist" like Bergoglio appears to be..
 
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Nufan

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Bob-Carabbio said:
Except that the BIBLE doesn't say ANY OF THAT. I take it that you're just another "Universalist" like Bergoglio appears to be..
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And I'm going to remain silent. Like I said.I'm not discussing the catholic faith with you. And now you're calling me a universalist. I take that as an insult. The bible also says not to judge unless you're using righteous judgment, because the same measure of judgment you use towards others is the judgment that god is going to use towards you. So be very careful sir.
 
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Nufan

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Bob-Carabbio said:
Except that the BIBLE doesn't say ANY OF THAT. I take it that you're just another "Universalist" like Bergoglio appears to be..
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What the Pope is saying is that God's grace is a free gift that is offered to everyone, even athiest.I don't believe that this is anti biblical.
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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Nufan said:
What the Pope is saying is that God's grace is a free gift that is offered to everyone, even athiest. I don't believe that this is anti biblical.
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And he's correct about that. God's GRACE is the ONLY reason you (AND OTHERS) weren't immediately judged and sent to hell the first time you SINNED. THAT WE SURVIVE AT ALL IS BECAUSE OF GOD'S GRACE (UNMERITED FAVOR). But

"Grace" doesn't make us Born Again Christians. It allows us to survive long enough to get that done if we choose to.

Repenting of our SIN and calling on God IN FAITH (not belief) to make us part of Jesus' SIN OFFERING (Isa 53:10) on Calvary is what gets us Born Again, and indwelled by the Holy Spirit.
 
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