What is Israel to you?

[Gideon300]

I'm interested in what people think of modern Israel. Is Israel a nation that was reestablished by God in 1948? Are they usurping lands rightly owned by Arabs? (There are no Palestinians by the way.) Does Israel figure in the last days events or is it nothing to do with it? I am creating a survey because I think the issue is important. Some obviously dismiss Israel as a nation established by God.

I don't need to know individual thoughts on the subject, only the results. Thanks to those who choose to respond.

 

[Jimbone]

I think the way this is always framed, especially by Christians that believe the whole of what is written in Rev. is to come, this idea that the Jews are "cut off from salvation", or that God is doing something else for them to be saved in the future is just not the case. I know a LOT of saved Jews, the church doesn't "replace" Israel as the question always frames it to make anyone who disagrees seem anti-Semitic for saying Jesus is the ONLY way, even for the Jews today. For ALL Israel today, Jesus THE Christ is the only way. The church doesn't replace Israel, it is the fulfillment of it, it's what was ALWAYS the plan.

Those of us who are reborn in truth are now part of he promised Kingdom Jesus delivered, on time and as promised. He now sits at the right hand of God on the throne and must reign until EVERY enemy is made a footstool for His feet. The judgement Jesus told them about in Mat. 24, about the end of the "AGE" happened in 70ad when the temple was destroyed EXACTLY when and how Jesus told them it would, ending the Mosaic age. Gods Temple is now us and the very reason that there cannot be another "God's true temple" on earth now. Scripture and revelation is closed, most would agree anyway, and guess what? God never commanded anyone to build another. So a group of Jesus denying Jews that may get together and build a temple in Jerusalem would NOT be building the "Holy place" described in Rev., the time for all that has past. Any Christian should "tear their robes" at the idea of another temple, this is spitting in the face of Jesus as disrespectfully as you could. Please think about this. Everything about the idea of a resurgence of the "old ways" is 100% anti-Christ. I'm not sure how I never saw this before when I was taught this regularly.

But my main point here was that I don't like it when the only option when framing this discussion are, "God replaced Israel" like the Jewish people can not be saved anymore and that they will find redemption in the future through some plan God has for them later. I do believe that Israel is NOW a spiritual kingdom that is made of people from ALL nations, and that the physical Mosaic covenant that involved the temple and animal sacrifice is over and empty now. It all pointed to Jesus and Jesus came, it served it's purpose and now ALL are saved in Jesus. He is King and will reign until the world is His. That's my King!!!! Praise His glorious and victorious name!!!

 

[HeIsHere]

I'm interested in what people think of modern Israel. Is Israel a nation that was reestablished by God in 1948? Are they usurping lands rightly owned by Arabs? (There are no Palestinians by the way.) Does Israel figure in the last days events or is it nothing to do with it? I am creating a survey because I think the issue is important. Some obviously dismiss Israel as a nation established by God.

I don't need to know individual thoughts on the subject, only the results. Thanks to those who choose to respond.

None of the above.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Seeing that at no ""other time"" in history before Christ or afterwards until after 1948 that Psalms 83 was finally fulfilled in its Prophecy technically 3 times since 1948. And today we have all the major players finally uniting, once again as ""never before"" to begin fulfillment of Ezekiel 38-39 as it is shaping up with the Nations Prophesied. Todays' Israel since 1948 is clearly the Fulfillment of Ezekiel's ""Dead Bones"" coming back to life fulfillment.

That's the beauty of Prophecy.
When it finally fulfills itself it signifies what we are seeing in the natural.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I know a LOT of saved Jews, the church doesn't "replace" Israel as the question always frames it to make anyone who disagrees seem anti-Semitic for saying Jesus is the ONLY way, even for the Jews today. For ALL Israel today, Jesus THE Christ is the only way. The church doesn't replace Israel, it is the fulfillment of it, it's what was ALWAYS the plan.

Those of us who are reborn in truth are now part of he promised Kingdom Jesus delivered, on time and as promised. He now sits at the right hand of God on the throne and must reign until EVERY enemy is made a footstool for His feet. The judgement Jesus told them about in Mat. 24, about the end of the "AGE" happened in 70ad when the temple was destroyed EXACTLY when and how Jesus told them it would, ending the Mosaic age. Gods Temple is now us and the very reason that there cannot be another "God's true temple" on earth now.

Here we go again. The OP said they didn't need opinions, but since you started... No one here has called anyone antisemitic for saying Jesus is the only way. We allll believe that. Period. And you said the church doesn't replace Israel, then turn around and say it does. Romans 11 is 110% clear.

But my main point here was that I don't like it when the only option when framing this discussion are, "God replaced Israel" like the Jewish people can not be saved anymore and that they will find redemption in the future through some plan God has for them later. I do believe that Israel is NOW a spiritual kingdom that is made of people from ALL nations, and that the physical Mosaic covenant that involved the temple and animal sacrifice is over and empty now. It all pointed to Jesus and Jesus came, it served it's purpose and now ALL are saved in Jesus. He is King and will reign until the world is His. That's my King!!!! Praise His glorious and victorious name!!!

Well you're making a distinction no one made. No one said Jews could come another way, just that they are blinded until the Gentiles come in.

 

[Mem]

I do wonder if this 'new' Israel has any correlation with the plumbline of Zerubbabel (of the line of David), placed as the foundation of the new temple (Joshua of the line of Aaron) in ultimate establishment of Jesus' Throne room. So that, when you see the AOD standing where he ought not. Notice there is not mention of the AOD 'sitting' where he ought not, just standing, only as if he intends to sit... At which time the only One worthy to sit will appear...

 

[Jimbone]

Here we go again. The OP said they didn't need opinions, but since you started... No one here has called anyone antisemitic for saying Jesus is the only way. We allll believe that. Period. And you said the church doesn't replace Israel, then turn around and say it does. Romans 11 is 110% clear.






Well you're making a distinction no one made. No one said Jews could come another way, just that they are blinded until the Gentiles come in.

Well I am sorry for offending you so personally, I did not intend it that way, even though I understand. The zeal that people cling to this belief is unlike many other things I've seen.

First the question is impossible to answer without considering your own belief on the matter. Also if you read a little closer you'll see I didn't accuse anyone of calling me anything, I was very specifically addressing the framing of this question.

It seems you are accusing me and making just as many "distinctions" that I never made either. You seem to be incapable of honestly discussing this because I laid out a WHOLE LOT MORE than the petty things you decided to "address" from my comment.

I'm not new here and I'm pretty well versed on the popular view of the pre-trib rapture teachings. The things I said and points I made do assume I'm speaking to people that hold to these teachings. So you can get snarky and say "we all believe that" about Jesus being the only way, but when you believe that Jesus has to come back in the future to get the Jews on board finally, then you're making a different way for "them". Also if you believe that it's possible that God's holy temple can exist on this side of the Mosaic age, then you DO in fact believe what you say you don't.

So if you do not believe the Pre-Trib nonsense the I wasn't even directing my comment towards you at all. But if you do then I'd be much more interested in hearing your rebuttal for how "God's temple", that was always pointing us to Jesus, can exist again without God telling His people to build it. How does that work? Does man have the ability to just built True Temple's of God? Or how about Jesus looking into the eyes of the people around Him when they ask when the coming judgement He just described was coming, and He said "this generation will not pass until ALL these things take place", tell me how He really meant a far off generation thousands of years from now, and how you read that from the text. Rebut that. How about the fact that He was talking about the end of that age and not the end of the world like we were always taught. There's so much you say by ignoring all these things to be offended by me.

Look I'm not trying to just fight and argue with you for fun, if we're going to talk about these things I want to get to the truth. If I'm misrepresenting or getting things wrong then please point them out, but taking my words in that first comment and making it seem that I was saying or implying someone called me anti-Semitic isn't what I'm talking about. Even if that was what I did say, ignore my whining and address the meat of the debate at hand.