Moving on from the basics Heb 6:1-3

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#21
What exactly does this mean?
The Jewish epistles of Hebrews and James are written specifically to the Jews concerning the last days before the return of their Messiah and the restoration of their promised kingdom. We can glean application from these books, but we need to be aware of forcing some of the specific doctrine upon the body of Christ. These books are not to us but for us.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,849
1,641
113
#22
The Jewish epistles of Hebrews and James are written specifically to the Jews concerning the last days before the return of their Messiah and the restoration of their promised kingdom. We can glean application from these books, but we need to be aware of forcing some of the specific doctrine upon the body of Christ. These books are not to us but for us.
This is the lynchpin of the issue, and a large reason there is much confusion about scripture: God only has two sons: one born of flesh and corruption and one born of Spirit and promise.

Abraham was given the covenant of circumcision to show that the promises secured by the Spirit would in no way be touched by the flesh of men. This is why all of Israel is not Israel: only some from Abraham’s line continue in the Spirit.

We should not read any scripture with the question “Is God speaking to the Jews or Gentiles?” No, now that the Gentiles have been grafted into Christ, the many-membered One, just like the Jews, we regard no man after his natural flesh. We should ask “Is this written to people of promise (all believers)?”

Those who argue against this, invented something called “replacement theology”. That is a non sequitur: no one replaced the Jews… God’s promises were always to those who lived by faith and promise and not by any fleshly lineage.

In conclusion: Hebrews speaks to all who are born of Spirit. To limit it to certain people because of their fleshly DNA is ignorant at best.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,156
5,724
113
#24
This is the lynchpin of the issue, and a large reason there is much confusion about scripture: God only has two sons: one born of flesh and corruption and one born of Spirit and promise.

Abraham was given the covenant of circumcision to show that the promises secured by the Spirit would in no way be touched by the flesh of men. This is why all of Israel is not Israel: only some from Abraham’s line continue in the Spirit.

We should not read any scripture with the question “Is God speaking to the Jews or Gentiles?” No, now that the Gentiles have been grafted into Christ, the many-membered One, just like the Jews, we regard no man after his natural flesh. We should ask “Is this written to people of promise (all believers)?”

Those who argue against this, invented something called “replacement theology”. That is a non sequitur: no one replaced the Jews… God’s promises were always to those who lived by faith and promise and not by any fleshly lineage.

In conclusion: Hebrews speaks to all who are born of Spirit. To limit it to certain people because of their fleshly DNA is ignorant at best.
Amen spirit and flesh flesh means nothing spirit is everything
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
918
212
43
#25
Paul and all the early church were former Jews converted to Christianity
Paul’s preaching was to the gentiles. He had tried preaching to the Jews and almost died. I’m scratching my head how you associate these two verses directed at the Jews. Not sure why you would go to those lengths to show that Paul was not speaking this to us, the gentiles?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,156
5,724
113
#26
Paul’s preaching was to the gentiles. He had tried preaching to the Jews and almost died. I’m scratching my head how you associate these two verses directed at the Jews. Not sure why you would go to those lengths to show that Paul was not speaking this to us, the gentiles?
Yeah Im sort of wondering why your selecting verses directed at Jews and others at gentiles was my point . Paul was a Jew so we’re all of Jesus early disciples who were commanded to go preach to this very select and particular group of people

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

The entire new testsment ofBible is pretty much written by former jews who believed the gospel and were converted to Christianity by the faith of Christ hesring the gospel and believing whether he preached it to them first or they went and preached it to others after

My point is simple it doesn’t matter to God in any way if your a descendant of a Jewish mother and father or if you have a Greek father and African mother

The point is that’s entirely irrelevant God

Im sort of perplexed why you’re identifying Jews and gentiles as if they are different to God or are saved some other way each from the other. As if a Jew is one kind of man and a gentile another . Every soul is Gods and has the same appointment

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die,

but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The point is if your a Jew or gentile doesn’t matter anymore what matters is hesring and believing the gospel Jesus sent to all creatures beginning er Jerusalem that’s all about repentance and remission of sins through him who died and rose

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all the remnant of the Jews who believed Jesus about five hundred went and preached the same gospel to everyone all creatures jew and gentile

The point seems simple enough there’s no reason to avoid any scripture in the nt
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
918
212
43
#27
Yeah Im sort of wondering why your selecting verses directed at Jews and others at gentiles was my point . Paul was a Jew so we’re all of Jesus early disciples who were commanded to go preach to this very select and particular group of people

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

The entire new testsment ofBible is pretty much written by former jews who believed the gospel and were converted to Christianity by the faith of Christ hesring the gospel and believing whether he preached it to them first or they went and preached it to others after

My point is simple it doesn’t matter to God in any way if your a descendant of a Jewish mother and father or if you have a Greek father and African mother

The point is that’s entirely irrelevant God

Im sort of perplexed why you’re identifying Jews and gentiles as if they are different to God or are saved some other way each from the other. As if a Jew is one kind of man and a gentile another . Every soul is Gods and has the same appointment

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die,

but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The point is if your a Jew or gentile doesn’t matter anymore what matters is hesring and believing the gospel Jesus sent to all creatures beginning er Jerusalem that’s all about repentance and remission of sins through him who died and rose

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all the remnant of the Jews who believed Jesus about five hundred went and preached the same gospel to everyone all creatures jew and gentile

The point seems simple enough there’s no reason to avoid any scripture in the nt
I didn’t think I did. When I read these verses, it’s a general encouragement by Paul to the Christians (and to us) to progress spiritually. I’m not sure any of the churches that Paul preached to or wrote letters to were Jew or Gentile specific, but rather Christians. Is that what you’re saying? Maybe I’m misunderstanding.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
918
212
43
#28
I totally agree. Now, what is it we should move on to? What kind of threads would be better-suited to mature Christians?
Well, the next step for Christians after salvation would be the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#29
The Jewish epistles of Hebrews and James are written specifically to the Jews concerning the last days before the return of their Messiah and the restoration of their promised kingdom.
How can you be so blind? They are written to and for the Church -- Jews and Gentiles in ONE BODY.

Do you seriously believe that especially Hebrews is written to unbelievers? Looks like you have not even read this epistle.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
918
212
43
#30
How can you be so blind? They are written to and for the Church -- Jews and Gentiles in ONE BODY.

Do you seriously believe that especially Hebrews is written to unbelievers? Looks like you have not even read this epistle.
I thought I was the only one seeing things. Is that what is going on in this thread? Wow 😳
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
918
212
43
#31
to the Jews in the last days there of only the fate of Edom, the gospel has been the seperating mechanism since Jesus gave us the parable of the wheat and the tares thus leaving nothing less for the Jews than to be gathered up by the rappers into bundles to be tossed into the lake of fire with the besst, the dragon, the false prophets, the fallen sons of God and death itself
How does that relate at all to the original post?
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
918
212
43
#32
The Jewish epistles of Hebrews and James are written specifically to the Jews concerning the last days before the return of their Messiah and the restoration of their promised kingdom. We can glean application from these books, but we need to be aware of forcing some of the specific doctrine upon the body of Christ. These books are not to us but for us.
John, these verses were to the Christians. I’m not even gonna try and show you any scripture. Until God opens your eyes, this is an example of complete selective blindness.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#33
How can you be so blind? They are written to and for the Church -- Jews and Gentiles in ONE BODY.

Do you seriously believe that especially Hebrews is written to unbelievers? Looks like you have not even read this epistle.
In the tribulation, the Jews will be persecuted and must endure to the end.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The writer of Hebrews offers no hope of renewal. This hardly sounds like Paul’s letters to the body of Christ. No matter how great the offense, grace abounds even greater.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Hebrews 4 emphasizes entering into the millennial rest, the seventh day. The Jew must labor to enter into the rest, the thousand year reign of Christ.

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#34
I thought I was the only one seeing things. Is that what is going on in this thread? Wow 😳
You probably think James is a Christian epistle as well. 🤦‍♂️
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
918
212
43
#35
You probably think James is a Christian epistle as well. 🤦‍♂️
It is man. Again, only a person with a very skewed filter would interpret the scripture to the point of “that’s not talking to me. No way.” How many Pharisees and Jewish leaders “tasted of the Heavenly gifts… partakes of the Holy Spirit…etc”? None. Dude, please tell me that you seriously don’t think that Hebrews and James were for the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Jewish leaders. Paul gave up on preaching to them when they tried to stone him.

But you know what, maybe you don’t need any more encouragement to seek God more, since you have no grasp of the basics of God’s word.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
2,174
113
#36
New believers are like new babies, empty of knowledge and understanding. As they grow and mature, they learn to seek the spiritual understanding of Scripture to truly feast on the Word of God.
While reading your commentary, I noted that, typically, milk doesn't have any seasoning. I have small grandchildren being introduced to new foods, it's a bit comical to see their expressions when the encounter a condiment they've never tasted before. My oldest, a grandson who will be 3 this November had a taste of my BBQ pork tenderloin I made with a brown sugar, salt, pepper, cumin, cayenne, onion, and garlic powder rub. After the first bite, he paused long enough to give me this look that is captured perfectly with this emoji, :sneaky:.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
2,174
113
#37
*I think it is of worthy of note that, as we mature, we develop a palate that is able to detect a distinct 'spice" that a babe might spit out if he tasted it or may miss altogether.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
918
212
43
#38
The Jewish epistles of Hebrews and James are written specifically to the Jews concerning the last days before the return of their Messiah and the restoration of their promised kingdom. We can glean application from these books, but we need to be aware of forcing some of the specific doctrine upon the body of Christ. These books are not to us but for us.
So, was John (the Baptist’s) baptism of God or Man?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#39
So, was John (the Baptist’s) baptism of God or Man?
Of God for the repentance of Israel to their Messiah. Was the instructions to build the ark of God or man?

Do you believe the following verses are directed to us today? Are the sick saved every single time these directions are followed? Are sins forgiven based upon others praying for them? No commentaries needed, just allow scripture to be honest.

James 5:
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
918
212
43
#40
Of God for the repentance of Israel to their Messiah. Was the instructions to build the ark of God or man?

Do you believe the following verses are directed to us today? Are the sick saved every single time these directions are followed? Are sins forgiven based upon others praying for them? No commentaries needed, just allow scripture to be honest.

James 5:
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
So in no way does the original post apply to you or any Christian? And no part of Hebrews or James was meant for any Christian but only unsaved Jews? So there is no part of Hebrews or James that can be applied to any Christians and is no use to us at all?

Complete insanity.