Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Magenta]

I mean, I am absolutely perplexed.

2 Timothy 2:25-26 NLT - "Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's hearts, and they will learn the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil's trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants."

If your preferred translation says something other than what is offered above, I'd like to see it. To me, the above is at the HEART of the Gospel, Saving Plan of Christ and it is ultra simple to understand. God is the one who changes hearts, not each individual person. This is what the entire Bible is about.

All those espousing free will must ignore such verses, verses which do not stand alone, and which have been pointed out
numerous times. I have wondered if they think it is the devil's will for them to believe, though Scripture says it is given to us
to believe on Christ’s behalf. The way some continually argue against what Scripture says of the natural man is perplexing.

Jesus’ words in John 6:65

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

All those espousing free will must ignore such verses, verses which do not stand alone, and which have been pointed out
numerous times. I have wondered if they think it is the devil's will for them to believe, though Scripture says it is given to us
to believe on Christ’s behalf. The way some continually argue against what Scripture says of the natural man is perplexing.

Jesus’ words in John 6:65

First of all, this is the first panel of yours that I have seen with the text around the perimeter. You are unreal!!! LOVE THESE!

You know, it amazes and perplexes me too (as I indicated). But ultimately, we are looking at the Power of God. For people to not see what is as transparent as glass is nothing less than the Almighty Power of God at Work.

Aren't you glad that you have received the Circumcision of Christ? It is ALL the difference in the world. You are saved, Magenta. You have crossed over from Spiritual death to Spiritual Life. The only person that can see what you see, it can only be done by and through the Spiritual Work of the Father, Son, and Spirit.

 

[Cameron143]

I sure hope so. The churches in Washington State are absolutely abysmal. Churches are voting to see if LGBTQ folks are allowed to serve the Sacraments. Imagine that.

Evil doesn't take a day off. Unfortunately, Christians do. Sometimes God let's things get bad so His people will again cry out, recognizing their need of God. If you read through the book of Judges, you will find a pattern of behavior for God's people. God's people are living in the richness of a real relationship with God. But soon a generation arises that knows not the Lord. The people rebel against the Lord and lose the blessing of the Lord. Eventually things get bad enough for the people to cry out to God who then provides a deliverer and the people are restored to God and again live in His blessing. Seems we live in a time when God has been forgotten. But all that is necessary for restoration is a return to the Lord. It will come. It's just a matter of how long people will wait and how bad it needs to get before people will again repent and return. Personally, I thought the pandemic would have been enough. Evidently not.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Evil doesn't take a day off. Unfortunately, Christians do. Sometimes God let's things get bad so His people will again cry out, recognizing their need of God. If you read through the book of Judges, you will find a pattern of behavior for God's people. God's people are living in the richness of a real relationship with God. But soon a generation arises that knows not the Lord. The people rebel against the Lord and lose the blessing of the Lord. Eventually things get bad enough for the people to cry out to God who then provides a deliverer and the people are restored to God and again live in His blessing. Seems we live in a time when God has been forgotten. But all that is necessary for restoration is a return to the Lord. It will come. It's just a matter of how long people will wait and how bad it needs to get before people will again repent and return. Personally, I thought the pandemic would have been enough. Evidently not.

I hear you. I ascribe to what the Bible describes as the Eternal Plan of God. There is nothing that takes place that is outside of this unbelievable Plan.

Ephesians 3:9-13 NLT - 9 I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning. 10 God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11 This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Because of Christ and our faith in him, we can now come boldly and confidently into God's presence. 13 So please don't lose heart because of my trials here. I am suffering for you, so you should feel honored."

Frankly, we . . . the Earth and its inhabitants, are all on display to the Rulers and Authorities in the Heavenly Realms. This Plan is being executed perfectly and those Rulers and Authorities are watching. They are watching us all, particularly those whom the Lord has selected for sifting. Those who are being sifted bring Glory to the Lord as He proves His Upholding Power, for those whom the Lord upholds, they cannot and will not fail. We see this clearly in the unbelievable Life of Job.

 

[Genez]

Getting a pastor who can preach from the Greek or Hebrew, that's a lofty dream.

God provides.
Check here. https://rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

And, keep in mind,, please.

If you decide to order his lessons that were taught daily from the pulpit?
No money will be asked for. https://rbthieme.org/financialpolicy.html

Billy Graham once asked him to be his private mentor, but turned it down because of the heavy demand his church was expanding into.

grace and peace .........

 

[TMS]

Okie Doke. I am of the position that the things said [by God] are purposeful and not haphazard.

Back to the point.
Who did Jesus die for?
Because Jesus prayed ( with purpose) for a few does not mean that Jesus did not die for all.
He loved the whole world, all the world.

 

[Magenta]

First of all, this is the first panel of yours that I have seen with the text around the perimeter. You are unreal!!! LOVE THESE!

You know, it amazes and perplexes me too (as I indicated). But ultimately, we are looking at the Power of God.
For people to not see what is as transparent as glass is nothing less than the Almighty Power of God at Work.

Aren't you glad that you have received the Circumcision of Christ? It is ALL the difference in the world. You are saved, Magenta. You have crossed over from Spiritual death to Spiritual Life. The only person that can see what you see, it can only be done by and through the Spiritual Work of the Father, Son, and Spirit.

Thank you, 2ndTomothyGroup... ah! Such a formal name to call you heh. Oh, I have done other panels
with perimeter text. You may have seen one or two of the before and just not noticed it! Like the
Job panel I showed you recently... it had perimeter text. And one of if not the most recent one...
And I think you have seen my Consuming Fire one? I am still working on that one! (the eyes...)

Job 1:21b; 13:15a

1 Corinthians 2:12; Colossians 2:13

Our God is a Consuming Fire

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Who did Jesus die for?

He died for those who belong to His Father, those whom the Father had given to Him. He did for those whom His Father chose to grant His Grace and Mercy. Jesus [did not] die for the offspring of the Devil. Now, this isn't in reference to those who belong to the Father whom He has yet to grant His Grace and Mercy, the Grace of a Circumcised heart. All people receive this Grace and Mercy at different points in their lives. In fact, some may not receive it until the end of their life, and who knows, perhaps the Lord grants the Grace and Mercy after a person has already died. We do not know.

Exodus 33:19 NLT - "The LORD replied, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and I will call out my name, Yahweh, before you. For I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose."

We, however, do not know who belongs to the Lord and those who belong to Satan. This is not something that we mere humans can decipher on our own.

He loved the whole world, all the world.

Unfortunately, that just isn't true. Those who are the offspring of the Devil are not Loved by the Lord. If we would study the Seven Nations and why they were called, by God Himself, to be completely destroyed, then we might hold a different opinion. An actual study of the Old Testament would be required to do this, however, but most don't make the time to get to know who their Lord is according to the historical Old Testament.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Thank you, 2ndTomothyGroup... ah! Such a formal name to call you heh. Oh, I have done other panels
with perimeter text. You may have seen one or two of the before and just not noticed it! Like the
Job panel I showed you recently... it had perimeter text. And one of if not the most recent one...
And I think you have seen my Consuming Fire one? I am still working on that one! (the eyes...)

Job 1:21b; 13:15a

1 Corinthians 2:12; Colossians 2:13

Our God is a Consuming Fire

Ahhh . . . yes, I did miss them! I'm sorry!!

My dad was a commercial printer and having worked in that print shop for years myself, I visualize these as very cool, high-gloss cards that could be used (and cherished) by children and adults alike. I really, really, really want to see these cards made available to the world. They are so unusual in their beauty . . . there's nothing like them. These are your magnum-opus, something to be so proud of, and perhaps to give to your children or grandchildren after you are gone. These are so important!!

 

[TMS]

Who did Jesus die for?

All.

2Co 5:14
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Magenta]

Ahhh . . . yes, I did miss them! I'm sorry!!

My dad was a commercial printer and having worked in that print shop for years myself, I visualize these as very cool, high-gloss cards that could be used (and cherished) by children and adults alike. I really, really, really want to see these cards made available to the world. They are so unusual in their beauty . . . there's nothing like them. These are your magnum-opus, something to be so proud of, and perhaps to give to your children or grandchildren after you are gone. These are so important!!

No worries! And thank you for your very kind words. To God be the glory! I am fine not being able to gain financially from these. Do you know that in the Edge browser (which used to be Internet Explorer) if you hover your cursor over the image, a little icon appears in the upper right-hand corner which, if clicked, will show all similar images (if there are any. Sometimes nothing will show up.). Sometimes I do that to see what comes up and often it is lots of other panels I have done, and maybe some others designed by others who are putting Scripture verses paired with faces or flowers etc, along similar styles and colour schemes.

John 6:37 plus John 10:28

 

[TMS]

Unfortunately, that just isn't true. Those who are the offspring of the Devil are not Loved by the Lord.

Do we have a choice? Can we choose to accept the gift of God's grace? If I'm the offspring of the Devil and I want to convert, choose to become a Child of God will God love me after this.

Is there barriers that stop me from receiving the love, mercy and grace of God.
2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I can't even repent without Jesus....
Notice that repentance is a gift from God to help them recover from the snare of the Devil.
2Ti 2:25-26
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

God loves all and wants to save all. But we have a choice.

 

[studier]

All those espousing free will must ignore such verses, verses which do not stand alone, and which have been pointed out
numerous times. I have wondered if they think it is the devil's will for them to believe, though Scripture says it is given to us
to believe on Christ’s behalf. The way some continually argue against what Scripture says of the natural man is perplexing.

Firstly, you should both venture out to look at better translations and seek to resolve why they differ.

Next, part of the perplexity is due to too much of a focus on one side of the argument and not trying to harmonize both sides.

Then, there's considering how the writers of the Text thought and spoke, which can be quite different than we do.

 

[PaulThomson]

The truth is...

The truth appears to you to be....
Not everyone joins the dots and arrives at the conclusions you do.
Maybe your projection from the facts is not the truth.

 

[Genez]

Just to show that Jesus died for all the sins of the world?
Not one unbeliever who will stand condemned before the Lord will have their sins mentioned.

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: ​

and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things ​

which were written in the books, according to their works." Rev 20:12​

According to their works, not judged concerning their sins.
All their good deeds will not render them as having the righteousness required of God to be allowed into heaven.

No sin of the unbeliever will be mentioned! Only works.

Jesus was already judged for their sins. They can not be judged again.


grace and peace ............

 

[selahsays]

We are in the "millennium". Which, evidently, you don't believe either. Anyhow...you haven't provided any biblical proof that God is going to give adult brains to infants, babies, toddlers, etc. Or that he is going to heal all the emotionally and mentally ill, etc.

Brother Rufus, In the millennium, which begins at the second advent of Jesus Christ, we won’t have flesh bodies any longer. We’ll be in our spiritual bodies, impervious to age or disease.

And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

- 1 Corinthians 15:49-54

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Okay...if you say so. In John 17 Jesus explicitly did not pray for each and every person in the universe, while at the same time he did pray for two specific groups of people in the universe. So, Einstein, reconcile the contradiction your understanding of the world presents: How could Jesus at once not pray for the entire universe in the distributive sense while simultaneous praying for many in the universe?

Also, it's not my doctrine. Jesus clearly stated there are two kinds of people in this world. His disciples are IN the world (Jn 17:11) but not OF the world (Jn 17:14, 16).

Jesus said forgive THEM.
Technically speaking, every human being put Him on the Cross [past-present-future] at that point in time.

 

[selahsays]

@Rufus - - In the book of Revelation ch. 20, we can read a little bit about this 1,000-year Millennium:

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

- Revelation 20:1-8

 

[PaulThomson]

But I have sat under pastor for nearly 30 years who is an incredible teacher.

Every calvinist pastor is an incredible teacher. But yet, remarkably, many do believe what they are selling.

 

[HeIsHere]

Firstly, you should both venture out to look at better translations and seek to resolve why they differ.

Next, part of the perplexity is due to too much of a focus on one side of the argument and not trying to harmonize both sides.

Then, there's considering how the writers of the Text thought and spoke, which can be quite different than we do.

There is a world of difference.