Philippians: Paul's "Stairway to Heaven"?

SilverFox7 · Jun 30, 2024

Thank you homwardbound for inspiring me to look into the lyrics of "Spirit in the Sky" and see if I can make any connections between that song and Philippians. I'll start with the opening chorus:

When I die and they lay me to rest
Gonna go to the place that's the best
When I lay me down to die
Goin' up to the spirit in the sky

When we as Christians die, we are going to the place that's the best - heaven:

Philippians 3:20-21

New King James Version

20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

We are citizens of heaven right now thanks to Christ Jesus, and we are ambassadors of heaven spreading Jesus' gospel in these "lowly" mortal bodies today. However, after death, we will be transformed from these lowly bodies to "...be conformed to His glorious body."

As Paul so beautifully described to the Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 15:53-54

New King James Version

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

That which claims our frail, short mortal lives - death - will be "swallowed up in victory!" Death is the one who will ultimately die forever, and Death will no longer hold claim to us in heaven.

Here are the full lyrics to "Spirit in the Sky", and I'll see if I can continue to make connections between every stanza and some verses from Philippians. The theology of the song is shaky in areas, but I'll avoid the weeds and keep the focus on this stunning testament to Jesus and the gospel.

When I die and they lay me to rest
Gonna go to the place that's the best
When I lay me down to die
Goin' up to the spirit in the sky

Goin' up to the spirit in the sky (spirit in the sky)
That's where I'm gonna go when I die (when I die)
When I die and they lay me to rest
I'm gonna go to the place that's the best

Prepare yourself you know it's a must
Gotta have a friend in Jesus
So you know that when you die
He's gonna recommend you
To the spirit in the sky (spirit in the sky)

Oh he'll recommend you to the spirit in the sky
That's where you're gonna go when you die (when you die)
When you die and they lay you to rest
You're gonna go to the place that's the best

Never been a sinner, I never sinned
I got a friend in Jesus
So you know that when I die
He's gonna set me up
with the spirit in the sky

Oh set me up with the spirit in the sky (spirit in the sky)
That's where I'm gonna go when I die (when I die)
When I die and they lay me to rest
I'm gonna go to the place that's the best
Go to the place that's the best

Source: LyricFind

homwardbound · Jul 1, 2024

SilverFox7 said:

Touchy, these lyrics above, yet I know I have sinned over and over again not wanting to sin, have left many behind me as God reveals to me, it is not good for me to continue in. Over me saying Forgive me over and over again. Repent, repent repent or you are not in, human understanding, that traps people in sin. (Romans 7)
What??????????????, but I just!
I got to ask for more? I got to quit!

I agree, we all got to quit, yet none of us can, by not letting go ( not willing to be dead to the flesh nature daily (Romans 6), that God took care of on that cross over 2,000 years ago now all the nasty nines and dirty dozen for you gone from God's sight, not the flesh sight. Done once for us all on the cross in his one time willing death. (Hebrews 10:10) Otherwise, one stays stuck in sin over and over again, by trying, (Being aware) to not sin, causes sin. That focus to not sin is good to the first born flesh, not to God, as the flesh looks upon flesh and sees other's as better than you are, and you know it, by the sin you do behind closed doors. Guilty and hiding. Trying to be better (Luke 18:9-14) Or you do not believe God and are only playing Church. Gettin g rewards from people, not from God, each person knows in themselves, I have no reason to accuse or excuse anyone

Anyone's obedience perfect? None! Then how is anyone having any right to berate anyone else over the others sin (Luke 18:9-14) (Rom 2:1-4) Did God take all sin away on that cross in Son or not? All but "Unbelief" to he is now and forever risen to never die again (John 1:29)
(John 19:30) is the fulfillment of the Law and Propgets. It is not taking the Law and Prophets away, it is the fulfillment. (Matthew 5:17-18) to be fulfilled in you, you, me and all others in belief too, to the entire Cross of Son for you. It has not a thing to do with trying to do what is now done for us by Son for us. Be risen by God for you to rest in this amazing grace and sin will fall away over time in not quitting trusting God it is done for you too.
Time to believe in thanksgiving and praise, as the Song states, that no flesh nature can fathom. Only, In God's Spirit and truth it is done, (John 4:23-24) As Father waits for the next believer to enter in with God and Son for them to be new, getting, too busy doing what is right over all the troubles out in this world of people seeing it this or that way, or the highway, people say to one another, That is not the truth of God, I got to do right, try, try, try, try! How well are you going inn that method? I have been there only to see No flesh can please God but Son's that fit it all in on that cross once for us all. For us to be given new life in
Son's risen Life from God Father of Jesus
Those verses are true of Norman Greenbaum, that God revealed to him, has revealed now to me and am thankful, not proud, just thankful. Trusting fro all sin to leave as God reveals how to me. ?will y'all too, If one is sincere in belief too

SilverFox7 · Jul 1, 2024

homwardbound said:

Amen. The line, "Never been a sinner, I never sinned" does not align with Christian doctrine. I suppose the closest I can come to explaining this to support the poetry from the song is how Christ takes all of our sins upon Him and through His sacrificial death, forgives them and provides grace and reconciliation:

2 Corinthians 5:21

New King James Version

21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

We are "righteous" in God's eyes through Jesus who washes away all of our sins as our Savior. But, "never been a sinner, I never sinned" certainly doesn't apply to me in the past, present, or future of this life. Wrestling with sin and giving into weakness and failing is part of being human, and repentance and asking for forgiveness is an ongoing state in my relationship with God.

1 John 1:8-10

New King James Version

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Purging sin out of our lives is a continual process that doesn't end until we die and receive that new, eternal life in Christ Jesus. The Holy Spirit is hard at work in the innermost parts of our being, and we need to let Him do His work. As sin is identified, we need to "confess our sins" before the Mercy Seat to receive forgiveness and cleansing.

So, yes, "never been a sinner, I never sinned" is the most glaring error in the song as it relates to our Christian lives. I always have been a sinner, still am, will continue to sin as long as I'm in the flesh, but I will still keep up the fight against sin by the power of the Holy Spirit and ask my Father for forgiveness through Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.

SilverFox7 · Jul 1, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

I like the way you expressed this, brother. Since God's love looks outward, we do not want our actions to disrespect Him or harm others. Love and repentance go hand-in-hand. We need God to change our hearts to be filled with more of His love.

homwardbound · Jul 2, 2024

SilverFox7 said:

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you won't quit, Amen. So Don't
Here it goes, I do not want to sin and yet I sin and still do not want to sin!
Yet God from God's view sees it differently that humans do what they do and cannot be. perfect ever, of thier first born flesh ever Rom 8:3. Only God sees the inside, our belief as real and knows we are not perfect. Therefore now be revealed, why Son Jesus came here to earth to die, before new life could ever get given anyone, in his being risen. Man only sees from the outside view of actions and reactions of people, excusing themselves, making judgements accordingly. Is corrupted, and man has put man in charge as if are of God. And these do act as if are from God very well
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Do you, we, the people honestly think God is at our world Churches, really?

Hebrews 8:1-4

King James Version

8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

Man creates his own law(s) and is in control of others, when we are called to freedom, the The tabernacle was destroyed in AD 70, first Harbinger, man rebuilds and makes his own Doctrine out of the true Doctrine

Galatians 5

King James Version

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing
The above is so much deeper that just about circumcision
Read Romans 14 is so much deeper that just about food

SilverFox7 · Jul 3, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Amen brother, and we certainly don't want to turn grace into an excuse to live however we want and engage in sinful activities as Jude warned of in his epistle (v. 4). I like the verse you quoted above from Titus that describes grace as bringing salvation and teaches us to deny sin and "worldly lusts" to live sober, righteous, and godly lives in Christ Jesus.

Grace doesn't give us permission to sin at will, knowing God will forgive us. We will always be forgiven for confession and repentance of our lawbreaking, but why would we flirt with sin deliberately, which only brings sorrow, pain, and death to us and those around us.

I didn't realize how strong Paul's focus is on obedience in Philippians until we started talking about it in this forum. And, Paul doesn't pull any punches - the knockout blow comes right here on the life we are called to live:

Philippians 2:12-13

New King James Version

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

The gift of salvation God has blessed us with is serious business that requires work, not by our strength but by God who works in us to fulfill His will and gives us the strength to obey Christ. We have a part to play in this, and God wants us to work with Him to change who we are and be his willing partner and child.

SilverFox7 · Jul 3, 2024

homwardbound said:

Well said. It's hard to comprehend how much Jesus loves us and although we are His servants, He calls us friends (John 15:15) as the song expresses:

Prepare yourself you know it's a must
Gotta have a friend in Jesus
So you know that when you die
He's gonna recommend you
To the spirit in the sky (spirit in the sky)

How far does that friendship extend?

John 15:13

New King James Version

13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

That's exactly what Jesus did for us - lay down His life for us because we are His friends. Through humility and obedience, Jesus suffered and died an agonizing death on the cross because He loves us:

Philippians 2:8

New King James Version

8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

Jesus laid down His life for us, and we should be willing to do the same for Him, our friends, and all humanity if it's God's will for our lives.

So you know that when you die
He's gonna recommend you
To the spirit in the sky (spirit in the sky)

Well, not exactly. No recommendation is necessary because heaven has been made available to us through the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ to the right hand of the Father where He intercedes for us as our current High Priest!

Pilgrimshope · Jul 3, 2024

SilverFox7 said:

Amen brother

people talk about the “ gospel of grace “ when Paul says that he’s just saying the gospel and pointing out its full of the grace of God like this adulterous woman the law says she must surely be put to death

“She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus however doesn’t condemn her for her sin he forgives her and then instructs her to repent

This very much is the structure of Paul’s writings he introduces us to the amazing grace of God that forgives us because of our faith in Christ Jesus when we hear the message of the gospel . He tells us how now our sins have been remitted in Christ and God is well pleased with us teaches us we in him are the hiers of God his children.

abut then Paul also always taught about repentance and obedience to the gospel

“For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭

If you look there at what Paul wrote to Titus but first this

“And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what Jesus taught to repent of doing sinful things and start living others in action as well as word while we wait for his return from heaven. He’s saying “ the gospel that saves has appeared to all men it teaches us to repent and live upright lives in his Will in this life while we wait for his return from heaven “

this is what the gospel teaches Jesus came to call sinners to repentance and give them eternal life who believe in him. We arent perfect so we have a doctrine full of grace and mercy because he knows we’ll still fail at times so we have doctrine

“If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:6-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Not long ago , well I guess it’s been awhile now but there’s a young man at my church bout 40 or so told me one day what a great example I was for him and how he looked up to guys like me ect . I was sort of puzzled because I have often spoken to him but only within the isles of functions of church. And not extremely extensively.

So I was thinking wow that’s a nice thing to hear . But if he knew me every day of the week he may not see me the same way.

Bout two weeks passed and I had by this time really thought “ I must be a great example of a Christian for him to say that bout me “ I mean I was really delusional about it for a minute lol anyways two weeks passed

and this feller cut me off in traffic as I was headed to church and I just started yelling out of nowhere having a bit of a grumpy painful arthritic morning and just let er rip . even let an old time phrase that’s terribly vulgar (well the f word )you bleeping idiot why don’t you learn how to drive or get off the road “ da;&$ed dummy !”

layed on my horn just the whole entire show. The car had about four or five people on it and so I passed by real fast speeding in a rush just acting a complete fool

i get to church parking lot about five or six blocks down the way there and pull in and park just as I’m getting out and walking towards the door the car passes by me and parks the next row down.

As it passes , I notice the young man who had told me what a great Christian example I was and how mature and “”””steady “ I always presented myself ect was in the passenger seat . I was really just totally embarrassed and overcome with shame and just a terrible feeling of hypocracy.

So I began the walk over pondering what I possibly could say in this situation, looking down I glanced up as I approached and there was an elderly woman standing with him. I’m positive from the heat on my cheeks my face was completely bRight red.

And just as I began to speak he begins to chuckle and the elderly woman probably my age or so also is snickering hiding her from with her hand up to her face.

i didnt really know what to think so he says “ rough mornin zz?” Nd they both just burst into laughter . I couldnt help but to also begin laughing along and said “ yeah . Yeah it hasn’t been the best morning so far . And then I sort of lost control laughing also

he then says “ I wanted to bring my mom to meet some of the folks here , I was telling her how friendly and what a good example you and some of the others here were for us “ lol so then I totally lost it we’re all cackling like Kamala Harris at this point

but my point is there was grace for me that morning and they all genuinely overlooked my moment and actually he looked and found a way to save me lot of grief and guilt

He could have been like some would and began gossip at church telling people “ oh this guys so fake ect “ or found some way to criticize and make me hurt over what I’d done in some way , but instead he wiped it right out and now it’s just a funny story I tell people sometimes ( we’ll I think it’s hilarious still but lol I’m cooky ..so )

grace is enough but we still have to treat the lord like he’s our lord

SilverFox7 · Jul 4, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Not long ago , well I guess it’s been awhile now but there’s a young man at my church bout 40 or so told me one day what a great example I was for him and how he looked up to guys like me ect . I was sort of puzzled because I have often spoken to him but only within the isles of functions of church. And not extremely extensively.

So I was thinking wow that’s a nice thing to hear . But if he knew me every day of the week he may not see me the same way.

Bout two weeks passed and I had by this time really thought “ I must be a great example of a Christian for him to say that bout me “ I mean I was really delusional about it for a minute lol anyways two weeks passed

and this feller cut me off in traffic as I was headed to church and I just started yelling out of nowhere having a bit of a grumpy painful arthritic morning and just let er rip . even let an old time phrase that’s terribly vulgar (well the f word )you bleeping idiot why don’t you learn how to drive or get off the road “ da;&$ed dummy !”

layed on my horn just the whole entire show. The car had about four or five people on it and so I passed by real fast speeding in a rush just acting a complete fool

i get to church parking lot about five or six blocks down the way there and pull in and park just as I’m getting out and walking towards the door the car passes by me and parks the next row down.

As it passes , I notice the young man who had told me what a great Christian example I was and how mature and “”””steady “ I always presented myself ect was in the passenger seat . I was really just totally embarrassed and overcome with shame and just a terrible feeling of hypocracy.

So I began the walk over pondering what I possibly could say in this situation, looking down I glanced up as I approached and there was an elderly woman standing with him. I’m positive from the heat on my cheeks my face was completely bRight red.

And just as I began to speak he begins to chuckle and the elderly woman probably my age or so also is snickering hiding her from with her hand up to her face.

i didnt really know what to think so he says “ rough mornin zz?” Nd they both just burst into laughter . I couldnt help but to also begin laughing along and said “ yeah . Yeah it hasn’t been the best morning so far . And then I sort of lost control laughing also

he then says “ I wanted to bring my mom to meet some of the folks here , I was telling her how friendly and what a good example you and some of the others here were for us “ lol so then I totally lost it we’re all cackling like Kamala Harris at this point

but my point is there was grace for me that morning and they all genuinely overlooked my moment and actually he looked and found a way to save me lot of grief and guilt

He could have been like some would and began gossip at church telling people “ oh this guys so fake ect “ or found some way to criticize and make me hurt over what I’d done in some way , but instead he wiped it right out and now it’s just a funny story I tell people sometimes ( we’ll I think it’s hilarious still but lol I’m cooky ..so )

grace is enough but we still have to treat the lord like he’s our lord

This is a great story, Pilgrim! I think most of us can relate with this while driving (if we don't say it, we at least think it!).

Very funny, and I give you credit for facing the music. Many would have shied away and avoided the folks.

More to come on your fine posting later but off to a July 4th parade. Have a great holiday, my friend!

homwardbound · Jul 4, 2024

SilverFox7 said:

How far, does this friendship extend????????????????????????????????????????????
Forever between God and you, not that anyone is perfect but God, I see as Paul in Phil 3 now
Romans 8:33
Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? Will God? No! He is the one who has forgiven us and given us right standing with himself.
Romans 5:21
Before, sin ruled over all men and brought them to death, but now God’s kindness rules instead, giving us right standing with God and resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5:2
For because of our faith, he has brought us into this place of highest privilege where we now stand, and we confidently and joyfully look forward to actually becoming all that God has had in mind for us to be.
Romans 3:19
So the judgment of God lies very heavily upon the Jews, for they are responsible to keep God’s laws instead of doing all these evil things; not one of them has any excuse; in fact, all the world stands hushed and guilty before Almighty God.
Romans 1:20
Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power. So they will have no excuse when they stand before God at Judgment Day.

Romans 14:1-4

Living Bible

14 Give a warm welcome to any brother who wants to join you, even though his faith is weak. Don’t criticize him for having different ideas from yours about what is right and wrong.[a] 2 For instance, don’t argue with him about whether or not to eat meat that has been offered to idols. You may believe there is no harm in this, but the faith of others is weaker; they think it is wrong and will go without any meat at all and eat vegetables rather than eat that kind of meat.3 Those who think it is all right to eat such meat must not look down on those who won’t. And if you are one of those who won’t, don’t find fault with those who do. For God has accepted them to be his children. 4 They are God’s servants, not yours. They are responsible to him, not to you. Let him tell them whether they are right or wrong. And God is able to make them do as they should.

Romans 14:4
They are God’s servants, not yours. They are responsible to him, not to you. Let him tell themwhether they are right or wrong. And God is able tomake them do as they should.

Pilgrimshope · Jul 4, 2024

homwardbound said:

This is part of the message

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this should be part of the message we share among believers to “be careful to do and maintain good works after you have believed “

this shouldn’t then be taken and made what it isn’t he’s not saying “ work for your salvation “ he’s saying let go of who you were and embrace who you are embrace the good works God prepared for you to walk in to Will and do

“who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭

If we always resist the teachings about doing good works well never learn the truth

Its about our mindset

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭

awe can hear this word of the lord and accept that it’s true and start to think that way “ I need to repent or in going to perish like God said “ that’s the right thought

abut we can also here him say “unless you repent you’ll all perish “ and we can reject that truth and say “ no no we’re already saved I don’t need to do anything I don’t need to believe what he said about it I’m already saved I don’t need to repent it doesn’t apply to me

then our mind will never change sin will never become sinful and evil and we’ll never repent we’ll never realize when we sin we’re serving satans Will our minds either accept Gods truth or reject it if we accept it he changes how we perceive everything

homwardbound · Jul 4, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Under Law, is needed for anyone too see deeply into Romans 6,7,8 even Romans 1-5. The Gospel is clear to me, he did die for the worlds sin, everyone as reconciled, forgiven. Yet that is not new life yet given, it is just reconciled as forgiven, with no new life given yet from God Father of in risen Son Yashua
That is here the new life as born new is at. it is been g dead to first born self, seeing no flesh can please God. Those trying to do that, see they are not perfect and need God to lead, at least this being me, who cannot obey Law perfect ever in this first born flesh, the tis still yet unredeemed Romans 8
Anyways, I quit on trying to perfect me in trying to do Law. Saw it is impossible under Law Romans 7:10 and in Matthew 19, before the cross when Jesus said it is impossible with man.
But with Father God all is possible, that was Jesus speaking of his taking sin away first for us all to now go to Farther in belief Son is risen and be given new life to abide in truth.
yet people under Law are trying and are serious to do as God desires, yet can't, because of the unredeemed flesh nature Born again is in God's Spirit and Truth (John 4:23-24)
There is no more under Law, the renewal of the mind is in place and one abides and is willing to learn from God in all they do or not do. At least this be what I see for me
Thanks, for some reason it appears as you are stuck in people taking grace for granted and cannot see letting go of the Law. where the freedom is in and we see clear as a bell and do not do, giving all credit to God in now doing what we could not do under Law
And I am glad, elated you are sincere in belief as by your posts, thank you

SilverFox7 · Jul 5, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Thank you for sharing this testament, brother. I really enjoyed this and can relate with it so well as I have choice words for the poor driving I witness on a regular basis. I usually just hold my hand up in the air like "what are you doing?" Or, I give a thumbs down for really poor driving (if it's really bad, I'll pull the old Fonz. with a thumbs up that quickly gets rolled down). I don't flip people off anymore and here's why:

When I was around 19 and heading to my 3rd shift job, this dude pulls right in front of me and I had to swerve into another lane to avoid hitting him. I gave him the finger, and he followed me into my work parking lot. When I got out of my car, he picked me up, slammed me on my car hood and started shaking me like a rag doll (I was pretty strong and athletic back then at 6'2 and ~180 lbs. or so). This guy was super strong, and I couldn't move or resist at first. I was able to break free eventually and was ready for a fist fight, but he suddenly rushed into me, knocking me off to the side, and he jumped into his car and squealed out of the parking lot.

I don't think I've ever given another driver the finger again and for good reason - that guy could have really hurt me if he wanted to, and I've never been overpowered like that in a contest. And today, there are crazy people who will pull out a gun and shoot at someone who's flipped them off: the dreaded "road rage".

We are called to live differently as Paul admonishes:

Philippians 2:14-16

New King James Version

14 Do all things without [a]complaining and disputing,[b] 15 that you may become blameless and [c]harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.

With the help of God, we should strive to "become blameless and harmless children of God." That is a challenge for sure in this "crooked and perverse generation", and it's so easy to get sucked into the raging river of hostility and vengeance towards those who have offended us. Instead, we should "shine as lights in the world" as Jesus said we should be as His disciples:

Matthew 5:14-16

New King James Version

14 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

I need to get myself out of the way and allow the Holy Spirit to shine in and through me to bring light to those around me and glorify God with the credit. If there is anything good in me, I tell people that is God, not me. I grew up in a pretty rough environment as a teenager, and there was a lot of anger and a terrible temper that needed to be overcome.

Thank God that He has helped me to rely more on His power, not my own. I still have a long way to go, and my blood starts boiling quite often over bad drivers for sure. But, I do feel much more at peace on the whole, and there are times I let people cut me off and just back off and go with the flow when I am close to God.

I need a steady diet of His Word to keep my emotions under control and avoid that "complaining and disputing" tendency that can so easily rear its ugly head if I'm not on guard. The goal is to be "without fault" as Paul instructed.

SilverFox7 · Jul 5, 2024

homwardbound said:

I like your reference to Romans 1:20 -

Romans 1:20

New King James Version

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [a]Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

"God is Spirit" (John 4:24), yet "His invisible attributes are clearly seen" in this awesome physical planet and universe we live within. God is the one who holds the creation together and "...in Him all things consist" (Colossians 1:17). We are made in God's image, so we can have a sense of how this world and our relationship with God should be when we experience the "good" in this fallen world that has plenty of "evil" as well - that's the tree we chose to partake of versus the tree of life.

I like how "Spirit in the Sky" closes:

Oh set me up with the spirit in the sky (spirit in the sky)
That's where I'm gonna go when I die (when I die)
When I die and they lay me to rest
I'm gonna go to the place that's the best
Go to the place that's the best

God is that "spirit in the sky", and the song helps to make Him a little more tangible to us as mere mortals. Yet we know that God is Spirit, who transcends this awesome physical creation and encompasses the visible and the invisible entirety of His tremendous Kingdom of Heaven - "the place that's the best" for sure!

SilverFox7 · Jul 5, 2024

SilverFox7 said:

I like your reference to Romans 1:20 -

Romans 1:20

New King James Version

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [a]Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

"God is Spirit" (John 4:24), yet "His invisible attributes are clearly seen" in this awesome physical planet and universe we live within. God is the one who holds the creation together and "...in Him all things consist" (Colossians 1:17). We are made in God's image, so we can have a sense of how this world and our relationship with God should be when we experience the "good" in this fallen world that has plenty of "evil" as well - that's the tree we chose to partake of versus the tree of life.

I like how "Spirit in the Sky" closes:

Oh set me up with the spirit in the sky (spirit in the sky)
That's where I'm gonna go when I die (when I die)
When I die and they lay me to rest
I'm gonna go to the place that's the best
Go to the place that's the best

God is that "spirit in the sky", and the song helps to make Him a little more tangible to us as mere mortals. Yet we know that God is Spirit, who transcends this awesome physical creation and encompasses the visible and the invisible entirety of His tremendous Kingdom of Heaven - "the place that's the best" for sure!

And what is heaven like? Here's a small taste from Philippians:

Philippians 4:8

New King James Version

8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.

Pilgrimshope · Jul 5, 2024

SilverFox7 said:

I’m sorry that happened brother it is a dangerous and pretty violent world we’re in for a minute I hope you don’t have any lingering issues or anything

normally I just stay in the right lane and follow along pleasantly I’m usually the guy waving you to go ahead and go I’m not in a rush lol it took a long time to get to that point I think we as Christian’s often when we’re older begin to realize alot of things go away with time . It’s sad sometimes because we don’t want to give younger folk the same time we needed

for years now I’ve been a pleasant driver mostly because if not exclusively because of my faith in Christ . I’ve always got Christian music or some sermon in the radio when I drive which actually is t very often a few times a week at this point and I’m retired so there’s no work related stress or anything

I think honestly because I was letting it get to my head thinking a little too much about myself doing good maybe the lord let me see that I’m still as flawed as ever but he’s giving me grace and not to forget it

i took that lesson from it honestly for a few days there I was really finding it hard to not see myself as this really great example for the church I attend lol got a bit delusional which is out of character I think the lord just set me straight rather gently

your story is alarming and shows the type of world we live in for sure. I think when we begin to acknolwedge that we’re called to live as the lord taught us like your saying there but we also don’t forget that when we fail like I did that say clearly I sinned , but more clearly God is still gracious and forgiving to correct me and forgiveme now when my hair is white as much as when it was brown and only had a grey here or there

were called to a very high goal but we’re given a very capable and provisional tool kit and supply of grace and mercy as well to reach for it

if our mind is about following the lord with our heart and mind and life we’re going to notice a lot of falling short in ourselves if we acknolwedge it when. It comes to light he will change it for us and wash it away

“but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

repentance and remission of sins preached to the world in his name

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭

Pilgrimshope · Jul 5, 2024

homwardbound said:

yeah we all have to do this

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

this is part of the truth which Jesus taught the world

““Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Now listen to what Paul’s saying here

“You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1, 5-11‬ ‭

Your talking about the law but this is true with or without the law as the next verse tells us

“All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It doesn’t matter if one was under the law or not every person has to appear before the judgement throne of Jesus we can do that us being believed and followed his ways of forgivness , mercy , justice , loving other people , helping those who maybe made mistakes but now they need help ect

or we can go to the same place and answer for all we’ve done wrong having treated people harshly not allowing for people to be imperfect towards us holding grudges not forgiving people condemning and claiming “this persons not a real Christian or that persons not sincerely a believer “ pointing out everyone’s sin

either way we do that towards other people we can expect to receive when we face the lord in that day even if we died before that day

““Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—

those who have done what is good will rise to live,

and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭NIV‬‬

homwardbound · Jul 6, 2024

SilverFox7 said:

Yes, so start seeing self, that first born you as
Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 8:18
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Romans 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 4:9
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Romans 4:10
How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.

We are all the same to God, to be made new by God once anyone asks God in belief to God, no more asking amiss, to spend what you get on your own pleasures, as is what is going on today and has gone on since the fall. I am so thankful to God for God's love and mercy for all, even though we all have messed up over and over again. God remains faithful and that is/has caused me to change. Love overcame Evil, and Jesus reveals(ed) love to us all, by that cross for us where we are reconciled to God Father then and there.
To get given new or not, depending on whether one believes God or not. I think we all do believe, yet there is a lot to get discerned in me and everyone else too.
Love only wants the best for the people, God's type of Love ( 1 Cor.13:4-7) (Jeremiah 29:11)

homwardbound · Jul 6, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

yeah we all have to do this

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

this is part of the truth which Jesus taught the world

““Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Now listen to what Paul’s saying here

“You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1, 5-11‬ ‭

Your talking about the law but this is true with or without the law as the next verse tells us

“All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It doesn’t matter if one was under the law or not every person has to appear before the judgement throne of Jesus we can do that us being believed and followed his ways of forgivness , mercy , justice , loving other people , helping those who maybe made mistakes but now they need help ect

or we can go to the same place and answer for all we’ve done wrong having treated people harshly not allowing for people to be imperfect towards us holding grudges not forgiving people condemning and claiming “this persons not a real Christian or that persons not sincerely a believer “ pointing out everyone’s sin

either way we do that towards other people we can expect to receive when we face the lord in that day even if we died before that day

““Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—

those who have done what is good will rise to live,

and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭NIV‬‬

The Lord God, the Father of the risen Son Jesus (Yashua) is in charge, still to this day, the way in is through the risen Son, not of man works, otherwise man has reason to boast

Luke 18:13-14

King James Version

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Pilgrimshope · Jul 6, 2024

homwardbound said:

“The Lord God, the Father of the risen Son Jesus (Yashua) is in charge, still to this day, the way in is through the risen Son, not of man works, otherwise man has reason to boast”

its a boast to accept what Jesus taught and believe it’s the truth and follow after him believing his words are true and will come to pass ? How so ?

wouldnt it rather be a boast of I reject the lords own words telling me how to be saved and have eternal life and think there’s another way when he said there isn’t ?

It seems to me if I accept the things the lord said will save my soul and know I need to learn the truth from him to be saved it’s not a boast but an acknowledgement that without him I’m lost and can’t be saved but if I hear and believe him I’ll surely live forever

““I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

is Jesus tesching them to boast about something or to trust and obey the things he told them and they would be fruitful and live ?

Christian’s have to get away from the idea that the obeying the lord Jesus by the gospel is something anyone is boasting about but rather it is hearing what our savior said will save us and believing it learning from God himself also following after those things beginning to apply them to life

Ask yourself is Jesus wrong about eternal judgement when he said this ?

““Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Is paul wrong ?

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-12‬ ‭NIV‬‬

was johns heavenly vision of eternal judgement wrong ?

“And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-13, 15‬ ‭

as we learn the Bible we start to think we underersnd it all but then we hear things we didn’t know about or hadn’t heard or read ourselves . Really there’s a pretty simple consistent doctrine of what God is doing .

One aspect that is certain is this

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭

this has been written before n the prophets the gospel and epistles for centuries thousands of years now

Philippians: Paul's "Stairway to Heaven"?

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