Did Those Who Were Never of The Elect Ever Have Free-Will?
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Hi, but who can resist His Will? Romans 9:19,20...if God's will to save everyone then everyone will be saved, ie as Jesus said "no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand" John 10:29
I agree humans have free will, Not in terms of salvation..
Hi, thanks for the response, so what separate the "unbelief" and those who "believe"? Is it because of themselves or God..
See 1Corins 1:30
So can you receive someone you didn't even know or see, without being taught by someone or Himself regarding himself?
Nah. What people are presenting are logical fallacies...
But people are so attached to their idea of free will,
erroneously conflating it with the ability to make choices,
that they cannot see the error of their thinking. Overly
stating something does not make it true, either.
There has been a lot of that speaking against man being
a slave to sin, which is what Scripture actually teaches.
N
Niki7
Guest
have you consulted the Bible regarding salvation/hell and the like? or, do you prefer to make up things the way you are doing here?
here are the verses you could not be bothered to post:
22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
first off, ripping scripture out of context does not serve anyone and second, those verse say absolutely nothing regarding God wanting people in hell
The Bible states plainly that God does not desire anyone to go to hell; the lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his angels and not human beings. humans that refuse God's gift of salvation through His Son, will be with the devil as the Bible states
playing around with Calvinism will not help you to understand the scripture
N
Niki7
Guest
unrepentant mankind is a slave to sin. I don't believe that strict Calvinist adherents are correct in their interpretation, but, regarding scripture plainly stating predetermined with regard to salvation, I conclude that God has foreknowledge and those predestined are those who do accept Christ.
choice is exemplified throughout scripture from beginning to end
God says choose. He does not push people over the threshold although He plainly does know those who are His even before they call on His name. People continue to sin even after salvation so we do not suddenly become other with no ability to sin
Sin separarates us from God. Romans 1 makes it plain that people have no excuse regarding the existance of God so I do not believe it correct to simply state that because of sin, we cannot reach out to or believe in God unless He somehow closes the gap by His will alone
If God is evil you’re right.
Gods wants a relationship. You can;t have a relationship without free will
Hi, thanks for going back to my original post and Scriptures quoted...now these are the questions for you or anyone here to answer.
(1) who are vessels? are they referring to humans beings?
(2) who prepares them according to the verses?
“But God be thanked, that ye were ( past tense ) the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; ( past tense )
even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. ( used to yield ourselves to sin now can yield ourselves to God )
For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”
Romans 6:17-22 KJV
gods servants are free not slaves
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
John 8:31-32, 34, 36
“You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.”
Galatians 5:13
“Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26 NIV
at he problem is man we’re servants to sin not even understanding sin so he gave us the law . now the gospel is about coming from servitude to satans Will sin , to Gods Will in Christ
“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”
Romans 8:12-13 NIV
a slave doesn’t have a choice like we do to serve God or serve the sins of the flesh
It's God's choice if He wanted to save anyone...we cannot save ourselves we need God.
It's not God's choice we ended up sinning and deserve death.
The relationship between man and God after the fall, is like master/servant or slave/master or child/ Father relationship.. there is no free will on the side of the servants, slave or child it's all the Master or the Father..
How can the one who believe the Gospel, believe in someone whom he never seen, or heard His voice etc?
Yes, we only know God because God "chose" to revealed Himself to us Not because we ourselves can find Him and know Him.. God is a Spirit and invisible, His ways are past finding out..to Believe in God is to know Him.
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Niki7
Guest
I don't play these kinds of games
if you have something to say, then kindly just say it.
Hint: You might start by addressing the before and after scripture rather than taking things out of context
Amen, I agree 100%
Disagree 100%
God redeemed us from the slave striker of sin. With his blood. So all who believe will nto perish.
Free will is in tact. Even a slave has free will.
Hi, I apologise, I don't play these games either...But my questions are based on the Scriptures you quoted.