Dietary laws, do you keep them?

[Dino246]

So can I freely murder, and ignore the law?
Am I by grace able to make void the law?

Should we make void the law because of the grace that is purchased with Jesus's blood.

Jesus died because the law was not able to be changed.

Your questions are ingorant and foolish because you are stuck in a false dichotomy. You think that either a person does their best to follow the law and thereby avoid sin, or they are profligate sinners with no restraint.

We who are saved by faith in Jesus Christ and filled with the Spirit of God are changed from within so that sin loses its appeal, while devotion to God and following His ways become the default.

 

[Genez]

So can I freely murder, and ignore the law?
Am I by grace able to make void the law?

Should we make void the law because of the grace that is purchased with Jesus's blood.

Jesus died because the law was not able to be changed.

We do not make the law void by grace.
You should in the power of the Spirit simply find yourself not having to be told what is in the law to fulfill the law.
Not having to be told. You will simply (if so inclined) not want to murder.

All the prohibitions in the law were there to expose to man how he is sinful.
The power of grace is given the faithful believer to not to want to sin. .

Carnal and reversionistic (backslidden) believers will in frustration find themselves being forced back under law
as long as they walk in their unspiritual state of being. Such can become pushy and legalistic about morality,
and attach themselves to imposing taboos upon a particular group they belong to.

Many like that will remain being under law until their death... Legalism.

Or until they can repent by finding themselves being made free by sound doctrinal teachings while empowered by grace.
In such a spiritual state of grace as to not be any longer imposed upon by their own sinful impulses.
They then will grow and become very relaxed and mature believers free of the conflict caused by law and sin.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Gal 5:18​

If you are being led of the Spirit you will not want to do anything that the law says not to do!

It all boils down to a matter of self righteous legalism vs grace.

Warning: Grace benefits will die without securing sound doctrinal teaching on a regular basis.
"Our daily bread."


grace and peace .......

 

[Genez]

Here is an example of what I was referring to......

You're being to

You're being too literal. Whatever you watch or read is spiritual "food" whether good or bad, just like whatever you eat can be good or bad physically. I'm actually very conscious of what I consume both spiritually and physically. But if I have a Twinkie once it twice a year it's not going to kill me.

Now reverse that....


You eat Twinkies all the time.
Will you remain in good health?
In contrast...
Eat wholesome food all the time.

There will be a difference.

Twinkies is not food as God intended food to be, as He created it to be.
Twinkies contains chemicals and additives that God never designed into any food.
God did not denature the flour used that leads to a deficiency.

Now...

Give me a cake baked like one at a time before the advent of refined foods and man made additives?
I would thoroughly enjoy it with a nice cup of organic coffee. Coffee as God created it to be.

You just like to find reasons to argue......
That's a bad diet for the well being of the soul.

Enjoy your junk food. Pray over it.... Its still junk.
It does not give God the glory in knowing how He thought of all our needs
in how wholesome food (as he created it to be) is good for our sustenance.

Diabetes type 2 is one terrible consequence of what your lackadaisical thinking promotes.


But... enjoy.

 

[Genez]

He was talking about spiritual food, not physical food.

And, Jesus was talking about mere sheep... not believers.

And, Jesus was talking about seeds.... not types of people.

You must live a very simple life.

 

[Ballaurena]

In Isaiah, before the new heavens and new earth are established, God speaks about a rebellious people which walk in a way that is not good, after their own thoughts; a people that provoke Me to anger continually to My face, (65:2,3). One of the reasons these people provoke the Lord is because they eat swine's flesh, and broth of unclean meat is in their pots, (65:4).

Also, God declares that He will consume those people who eat swine's flesh, detestable things, and mice. (Isa.66:17). The context of this prophecy is the end times, right before the new heaven and new earth. This would certainly seem to suggest that the Lord will still expect an obedience to His dietary laws.

And Revelation talks of unclean birds which doesn't make sense if all animals have been made clean.

I can appreciate your perspective, but you are missing some context. First off, these are Old Testament passages where God was talking to people under the Old Covenant. Today a person can put themself under the Old Covenant, but a newer and better covenant is now available. The Old Covenant was/is based on the physical, and therefore had a lot of physical commands and blessings. The New Covenant is a spiritual covenant and focuses more on spiritual state - the spirit of someone's choices and spiritual consequences, though these do naturally bleed into the physical as part of bearing fruit (John 15). Therefore the New Covenant isn't focused on physical behaviors to test obedience or to be different for the sake of being different (i.e. a peculiar people per Deut. 14:2 KJV). Rather, the New Covenant is about spiritually sourced motives (Romans 14, Ezek. 36:26-27, 2 Cor 3:3) and operating from understanding spiritual reality (truth) rather than from obedience ("I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you." John 15:15).

All covenants are currently still opened and will be until after Christ returns and they are fully fulfilled. The fact that the passage starts talking about what God will do in the future doesn't mean that everything mentioned in the chapter is applicable to the end times or to New Covenant followers of God - the New Covenant didn't even exist yet! Rather, God was skipping around, as is common with prophetic passages in the Bible. This is especially sensible here, though, since the Old Covenant will be applicable for some until the end comes.

 

[NightTwister]

You eat Twinkies all the time.

I never said that. Why bear false witness?

Will you remain in good health?

What is that to you?

Eat wholesome food all the time.

I'll eat what I want to eat, and drink what I want to drink.

Twinkies is not food as God intended food to be, as He created it to be.

They're a treat. I treat them as such.

Twinkies contains chemicals and additives that God never designed into any food.

Everything in moderation.

God did not denature the flour used that leads to a deficiency.

God didn't make flour at all. He made grains that we make into flour.

Give me a cake baked like one at a time before the advent of refined foods and man made additives?
I would thoroughly enjoy it with a nice cup of organic coffee. Coffee as God created it to be.

Great, you enjoy that.

You just like to find reasons to argue......

You just like to tell people what to do while insisting you aren't doing that.

That's a bad diet for the well being of the soul.

Physical food is for the well being of the body. Spiritual food (God's Word) is four the well being of the soul.

Enjoy your junk food.

I will, in moderation.

Pray over it.... Its still junk.

One man's junk is another man's treasure.

It does not give God the glory in knowing how He thought of all our needs
in how wholesome food (as he created it to be) is good for our sustenance.

I'm pretty sure that you have no idea what this sentence means either.

Diabetes type 2 is one terrible consequence of what your lackadaisical thinking promotes.

I'm well into my 60s and am not diabetic. Another prophecy gone wrong.

But... enjoy.

I will, thanks!

 

[NightTwister]

And, Jesus was talking about mere sheep... not believers.

And, Jesus was talking about seeds.... not types of people.

You must live a very simple life.

I do. It's nice.

 

[SavedByBlood]

Do you guys keep the dietary laws of Leviticus 11? I believe it is smart to do so, not because we are REQUIRED to, but because God as the creator knows what is most profitable for us to eat when it comes to meats. The kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, I know. All im asking you guys is: Do you personally keep the dietary laws? Do you think it is beneficial?`I sure do. Lots of bad things have happened in history including many pandemics due to eating unclean meats.[/QUOTE

Probably not to strictness of Leviticus 11. Having the privilege of knowing and being good friends with an Orthodox Jewish man when younger, I found out the Orthodox community put safe guards and built walls around the Torah above and beyond what Father instructed Moses to do.

Strict adherence to Mosaic dietary food laws: no eating meat with dairy. There is an amount of time in-between, I believe an hour. So one would have to have something milk like with a steak, it would have to be soy, oat or almond milk. It would have the K-Parve stamp on it. One would only be able to eat the front shoulder of beef, lamb or bison. The rear would be considered not kosher.

I don't eat pork, shellfish or fish without scales. I don't eat marshmallow or Fluff. They both have pork products in them. I don't feel like I'm putting myself in bondage by abstaining. I also don't believe the Apostles became pork eating Christians after they had liberty to do so.

I also don't judge people that do consume biblically unclean foods. I don't want to get in their way of happiness and success.

I try to eat the healthiest diet I can. No alcohol A lot of fruits, vegetables and keeping processed food down to a minimum. I buy a whole lamb grass fed locally once a year. Bison every time my local market carries it.

The gate to salvation is going to be as narrow for me as everyone else.

 

[Genez]

I never said that. Why bear false witness?

What is that to you?

I'll eat what I want to eat, and drink what I want to drink.

They're a treat. I treat them as such.

Everything in moderation.

God didn't make flour at all. He made grains that we make into flour.

Great, you enjoy that.

You just like to tell people what to do while insisting you aren't doing that.

Physical food is for the well being of the body. Spiritual food (God's Word) is four the well being of the soul.

I will, in moderation.

One man's junk is another man's treasure.

I'm pretty sure that you have no idea what this sentence means either.

I'm well into my 60s and am not diabetic. Another prophecy gone wrong.

I will, thanks!

I am not telling you what to do...

But? You are telling me what to do by telling me what I should not do.

 

[Inquisitor]

It is contradictory for someone to treat Acts 15:19-21 as containing an exhaustive list for mature Gentile believers in order to limit which laws Gentiles should follow while also treating it as being a non-exhaustive list by saying that that there are obviously other laws that Gentiles should follow, such as the greatest two commandments, or those things spoken against in verses like Romans 1:26-31, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19-21, and Titus 3:1-3. In Acts 15:19-21, it was not given as an exhaustive list for mature believers, but rather it was given as a listen intended to avoid making things too difficult for new believers, which they excused in verse 21 with the expectation that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues.

Moreover, everything commanded in the Torah is either in regard to how to love God or our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the position that Gentiles should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that Gentiles should obey all of the commandments that hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit murder, idolatry, adultery, theft, favoritism, rape, kidnapping, and so forth for the rest of the Torah.

Hello Soyeong.

Here is a passage from the book of Acts that you must explain.

Acts 15:8-10
And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit,
just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them,
cleansing their hearts by faith. Since this is the case, why are you putting God
to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our
forefathers nor we have been able to bear?

What is the yoke that was being placed on the shoulders of the Gentile disciples?

What is the yoke that the apostles and the forefathers had been unable to bear?

 

[NightTwister]

I am not telling you what to do...

But? You are telling me what to do by telling me what I should not do.

You're telling me what I should and shouldn't eat. That's telling me what to do. Why not just admit it?

 

[Genez]

Do you guys keep the dietary laws of Leviticus 11? I believe it is smart to do so, not because we are REQUIRED to, but because God as the creator knows what is most profitable for us to eat when it comes to meats. The kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, I know. All im asking you guys is: Do you personally keep the dietary laws? Do you think it is beneficial?`I sure do. Lots of bad things have happened in history including many pandemics due to eating unclean meats.

Today we have recalls because people were eating unclean spinach...

Yet?
Spinach is a clean food according to the Bible!

Perhaps, you are missing what the term "unclean" meant to those who were living under the Law?

In Christ .......

 

[Genez]

You're telling me what I should and shouldn't eat. That's telling me what to do. Why not just admit it?

Do you argue with a sign that says, 'slippery when wet?'

Telling you what is so, is not the same thing as telling you what to do.
It simply makes you accountable to choose what you want to do after knowing the facts.

Accountability, some people highly resent.
It all depends on how one's sin nature has been wired....

Learn to recognize it.

Whoops!
Just told you again, what to do!

 

[Inquisitor]

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Define sin.

God has given us a physical, mental and spiritual body. We need to look after all aspects.

Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
1Co 6:19-20
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

If you are destroying the body you are not glorifying God.

You asked for a definition of sin.

There are two definitions given in the scripture.

The early Jewish definition is disobedience to the law.

The second definition of sin is the definition that Paul gave to the Gentiles.

Galatians 5:16-24
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh;
for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever
you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds
of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior,
idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition,
dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which
I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things
will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,
kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

So clearly, the most exhaustive definition of sin involves the passions and desires of the
flesh. And they are self evident.

Your no stranger to Paul's definition of sin in Galatians 5.

But wait there's more, "factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these"

It is clear that Paul never gave the Gentiles a simple list of rules to follow.

Paul defined sin as anything that is not of faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Inquisitor]

So can I freely murder, and ignore the law?
Am I by grace able to make void the law?

Should we make void the law because of the grace that is purchased with Jesus's blood.

Jesus died because the law was not able to be changed.

Interesting question.

Will you admit that your flesh is full of destructive passions and desires?

Have you ever thought someone was a fool?

Have you ever looked at a young woman with a lustful thought?

Have you at times wanted a lot more money in the bank?

You will find that you are dead in your flesh and you always have been.

The law condemned you, over and over again.

We have been instructed to live by the Spirit at all times.

We must bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit not the fruit of our flesh.

Christianity is not about what we can't do, Christianity is all about
bearing the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Genez]

You're telling me what I should and shouldn't eat. That's telling me what to do. Why not just admit it?

Name one thing I told you not to eat that can not be found in a form that is good to eat?

When I was living in Israel we were warned not to eat certain vegetables that human excrement was used in their cultivation.
That they will cause dysentery.

It was not carrots we were told not to eat.
But to watch out for certain carrots.

You keep letting that distinction slip by you....

You still want to eat those carrots after being told how they were grown?
Be my guest! Dig right in.

Sorry for sounding like I was telling you what to do!
Heaven forbid!

grace and peace ..........

 

[TMS]

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Gal 5:18
If you are being led of the Spirit you will not want to do anything that the law says not to do!

It all boils down to a matter of self righteous legalism vs grace.

The law is spiritual so when you walk in the Spirit you will be obeying the law.

I have never pushed or promoted legalism. Self righteousness is not possible for us. We all need grace.

We are not under the law, the law can not hold us guilty when we have the righteousness of Jesus covering us.
But the bible is clear and tells us not to make the law void by grace.
Not to continue in sin.
To be perfect. Live like Jesus, live in the Spirit.
The Law is a guide to help us understand what sin is.
People throw the law away because they don't like being shown what is right and wrong.

 

[TMS]

Paul defined sin as anything that is not of faith in Jesus Christ.

So true
There are many definitions and they don't contradict each other.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The question is are you willing to listen to all or only what suits you.

If you take all it includes the 10 commandments. This is a point of contention. People throw out the law because they want to be free from the guilt.
Jesus is the only way to free us from guilt.
By faith we can be fully forgiven.

We are directed to not sin and shown what sin is in many places. We can sum it up like Paul.. Rom 8:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Should we obey the law, and all the principles of righteousness. If we walk in the Spirit we will obey.

 

[Soyeong]

There you go Soyeong, you just admitted that you cannot accept what 2 Corinthians 3,
says at face value.

The lengths you go to to alter the simple reading of the text.

You must distort every verse you read to conform those verses to the law.

I did not admit that and you don't have grounds to accuse me of not accepting what the Bible says at face value when you cannot accept what all of the verses that I quoted that contradict your interpretation say at face value. If you hold to the truth of all of the Bible and there are verses that you read verses that appear to you to be contradicting each other, then the correct response is to think that you must have misunderstood one or more of those verses, not to pick one and reject all of the other verses that don't agree with your understanding of that verse.

2 Corinthians 3:3
Who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit;
for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

A very simple verse indeed.

The letter kills.

What is the letter?

The letter of the law!

Can it get any easier?

Indeed, but what you are making an incorrect assumption about what the "the letter of the law" refers to and are ignoring major problems with your assumption. If the "letter of the law" refers to "correctly obeying God's instructions" and that leads to death, then that would mean that God would be misleading us and shouldn't be trusted.

Christians are not under the law.

God is sovereign, so the whole world is under His law and is accountable to refrain from sin, otherwise God would have no means by which to judge the world. While I agree that Christians are not under the law, Paul spoke about multiple different categories of law other than the Law of God, such as the law of sin and works of the law, so it should be worth discerning which law Paul was referring to as us not being under out of all of the categories of law that he spoke about rather than blindly assuming that he was referring to the Law of God as if it makes perfect sense to interpret a servant of God as speaking against obeying him and then to think that we should obey him instead of God. In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed His children to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying His law, so you are interpreting Paul in a way that makes him out to be a false prophet, but you lack the self-awareness to consider whether you have misinterpreted him.

 

[Soyeong]

it is contradictory to be saved by grace through faith in the work of Christ and to then make a list of things which believers "must do" for salvation.

hence Galatians 3

While there are many verses that speak against earning our justification, righteousness, salvation and eternal life as the result of our obedience, there are nevertheless also many verses that support that those things require us to be an obeyer of God, which is not contradictory because there can be many reasons for why we are required to be an obeyer of God other than to earn those things as the result.

For example, in Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him, and in Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven in contrast with saying that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so it is clear that we are required to be a worker of lawfulness. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds the Law of God, so everyone who has faith is a doer of the law and everyone who has faith will be justified, which is how Paul can affirm in Romans 2:13 that only the doers of the law will be justified while also denying in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our justification as the result of our obedience.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so our obedience to God's law has nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation from God as the result, but rather God graciously teaching us to be doers of His law is the way that He is giving us His gift of salvation, which intrinsically requires our participation.