Apostle Paul Taught What Jesus Taught About The Rapture

[DavyP]

What Lord Jesus showed for the timing of His future return AFTER... the tribulation, is also what Apostle Paul taught about the gathering of the Church in 1 Thessalonians 4. And it is about a Post-tribulational coming by Jesus.

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Lord Jesus gave 2 versions of the above, this one in Matt.24 and another in Mark 13. In this version of the gathering, these saints are gathered "from one end of heaven to the other." This is very... important to note, because the Mark 13 version of this is last phrase is different.

This Matt.24:31 phrase "from one end of heaven to the other" is about Paul's gathering of the saints from heaven that Jesus will bring with Him when He descends to earth...

1 Thess 4:13-16
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

What Apostle Paul taught above perfectly aligns with what Jesus taught with the gathering of the saints in Matthew 24:31. Jesus will gather the RESURRECTED saints from one end of heaven to the other bringing them with Him when He comes. And when did Jesus show when that future resurrection will be? Per John 6:40, Jesus said that resurrection will happen on the "last day", meaning the final day of this present world. So Paul is actually tying 1 Thess.4 with that "last day" resurrection of the asleep saints for when Jesus will come to gather His Church.

Now for the Mark 13 version:

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

In that Mark 13 version, Jesus spoke of His future gathering of the saints "from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." So do you notice the difference of that from the Matt.24:31 version about the asleep saints? These represent those of us still alive on earth that remain to the day of Jesus' future coming. This is what many call the 'rapture', but what Apostle Paul called being "caught up"...

1 Thess 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

This means that what Lord Jesus taught about the gathering of the saints in His Olivet discourse is the SAME teaching that Apostle Paul gave about the gathering of the Church in 1 Thessalonians 4.

I find that many brethren who believe in a pre-tribulational rapture do not actually realize the above. Nevertheless, the above is HOW those in Christ are to study The Bible with proper interpretation. And many times the Truth can be written in a very subtle manner so that if one is not paying attention, they can miss it and think something else that is not written.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What Lord Jesus showed for the timing of His future return AFTER... the tribulation, is also what Apostle Paul taught about the gathering of the Church in 1 Thessalonians 4. And it is about a Post-tribulational coming by Jesus.

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Lord Jesus gave 2 versions of the above, this one in Matt.24 and another in Mark 13. In this version of the gathering, these saints are gathered "from one end of heaven to the other." This is very... important to note, because the Mark 13 version of this is last phrase is different.

This Matt.24:31 phrase "from one end of heaven to the other" is about Paul's gathering of the saints from heaven that Jesus will bring with Him when He descends to earth...

1 Thess 4:13-16
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

What Apostle Paul taught above perfectly aligns with what Jesus taught with the gathering of the saints in Matthew 24:31. Jesus will gather the RESURRECTED saints from one end of heaven to the other bringing them with Him when He comes. And when did Jesus show when that future resurrection will be? Per John 6:40, Jesus said that resurrection will happen on the "last day", meaning the final day of this present world. So Paul is actually tying 1 Thess.4 with that "last day" resurrection of the asleep saints for when Jesus will come to gather His Church.

Now for the Mark 13 version:

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

In that Mark 13 version, Jesus spoke of His future gathering of the saints "from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." So do you notice the difference of that from the Matt.24:31 version about the asleep saints? These represent those of us still alive on earth that remain to the day of Jesus' future coming. This is what many call the 'rapture', but what Apostle Paul called being "caught up"...

1 Thess 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

This means that what Lord Jesus taught about the gathering of the saints in His Olivet discourse is the SAME teaching that Apostle Paul gave about the gathering of the Church in 1 Thessalonians 4.

I find that many brethren who believe in a pre-tribulational rapture do not actually realize the above. Nevertheless, the above is HOW those in Christ are to study The Bible with proper interpretation. And many times the Truth can be written in a very subtle manner so that if one is not paying attention, they can miss it and think something else that is not written.

Yes Paul’s doctrine always was coming from the foundation Jesus preached in the gospel.

Anytime we want to understsnd Paul we can find what he’s talking about in the gospel

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

In that Mark 13 version, Jesus spoke of His future gathering of the saints "from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." [...] These represent those of us still alive on earth that remain to the day of Jesus' future coming. This is what many call the 'rapture', but what Apostle Paul called being "caught up"...

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, here, it sounds as though you believe this verse in Mark 13 is saying that the "destination location" ("TO") is: "the uttermost part of heaven" (as though, the vestibule [/front lobby] of heaven isn't quite far enough, He intends our "destination location" [at the time of this "rapture"] to be "[to] the UTTERMOST part of heaven". Is this what you believe the text is conveying?









As I see it, this verse is telling (instead), "the extremities" from whence they'll be gathered (by the angels).

It's like, in the song, the "Marines' Hymn"... the lyrics say,
"From the Halls of Montezuma
To the shores of Tripoli;
We fight our country's battles
In the air, on land, and sea"

... in this section of the lyrics, the point being made is not that their starting-and-ending-locations are: "FROM the Halls of Montezuma" (their STARTING place) "TO the shores of Tripoli" (as their END-"destination-location")...

...the point being made is that their "purpose" extends "TO THE EXTREMITIES" (of those boundary markers), like the expression "from head to toe" (the whole shebang!)... no place left out from whence they'll be gathered--no saint will be left out, as they will all be gathered.



The issue is the timing and purpose of THIS context (same timing and purpose of the Matt24 context), which ISN'T "our Rapture".

Matt24:29-31 (for example) corresponds with what Isaiah 27:9,12-13 had already talked about (see that context); as this is what [Subject] Jesus is covering in His Olivet Discourse (except for about 12 verses in Lk21 about the 70ad events--vv.12-24a,b)...
He is NOWHERE in His Olivet Discourse talking about the Subject of "our Rapture".






Welcome to CC. Hope to see you around the boards.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ To go along with my previous post ^ ...

Yes Paul’s doctrine always was coming from the foundation Jesus preached in the gospel.

Anytime we want to understsnd Paul we can find what he’s talking about in the gospel

This ^ is how we KNOW that Paul is saying "the Day of the Lord" ARRIVES "exactly like [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth-PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3]--of the very ones Jesus spoke about in His Olivet Discourse (Jesus using the PLURAL form of that very word);
rather than at the LATER time-slot of Matt24:29-31 when He returns to the earth (what is commonly called His "Second Coming").

The "beginning of birth-PANGS" ARE [the equivalent of] the SEALS at the START of the "7-year period"... not speaking of the END of that (when He "RETURNS" to the earth, Rev19), as many suppose to be the case (of WHEN the "DOTL" arrives or commences--No, it's rather PRIOR TO that point in the chronology, starting with SEAL #1 / the FIRST "BP" Jesus mentioned [Matt24:4 / Mk13:5]).

 

[Pilgrimshope]

^ To go along with my previous post ^ ...



This ^ is how we KNOW that Paul is saying "the Day of the Lord" ARRIVES "exactly like [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth-PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3]--of the very ones Jesus spoke about in His Olivet Discourse (Jesus using the PLURAL form of that very word);
rather than at the LATER time-slot of Matt24:29-31 when He returns to the earth (what is commonly called His "Second Coming").

The "beginning of birth-PANGS" ARE [the equivalent of] the SEALS at the START of the "7-year period"... not speaking of the END of that (when He "RETURNS" to the earth, Rev19), as many suppose to be the case (of WHEN the "DOTL" arrives or commences--No, it's rather PRIOR TO that point in the chronology, starting with SEAL #1 / the FIRST "BP" Jesus mentioned [Matt24:4 / Mk13:5]).

I can’t understand what your saying

 

[stilllearning]

What Lord Jesus showed for the timing of His future return AFTER... the tribulation, is also what Apostle Paul taught about the gathering of the Church in 1 Thessalonians 4. And it is about a Post-tribulational coming by Jesus.

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

That is exact language. When Christ speaks in the New Testament we have the ability to go back to the old testament and find where he first said it and get a full picture of the context. Or what many scholars refer to as the rule of first mention.

For example in the new when he speaks of separating the sheep and goats we can turn back to Ezekiel 34:17 "And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats." We can then read the chapter and get the context from the first mention.

When Christ was about to be taken up the disciples asked are you gonna restore the kingdom at this time.

That is what Matthew 24:29-31 is, exact language when Israel will be restored in the land. When we go back to Deuteronomy we find that God has already told them they will fall back and he talks about what will happen in the both the current and later days of them doing so.

God sums it up in the Song of Moses they were to learn. Deuteronomy 32:26 "I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men: " Deuteronomy 32:29 "O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end! "

With the final outcome being Deuteronomy 32:36 "For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left. "

I believe that when Paul spoke of the revelation that the Jews and gentiles would be one as we are grafted in this is one of the verses that the spirit gave him understanding of Deuteronomy 32:43 which says "Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people."

The word nations is goy and we find the first mention of it in Genesis 10:5 "By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations." The word gentiles here is the word goy. Strong's sums up goy to mean.

"Gentile, heathen, nation, people
Rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee}; apparently from the same root as gevah (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts -- Gentile, heathen, nation, people."

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1471.htm

Another last days prophecy came from Israel himself when he blessed his sons. Genesis 49:1 "And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days."

Of importance is Genesis 49:8-10 "Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.

9Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?

10The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be."

Christ when returns he is going to gather Israel unto him and then restore the kingdom of which he will sit upon the throne.

So Matthew 24:29-31 is exact language of that promised restoration he spoke to them in Deuteronomy. To let them know none of them would be overlooked or forgotten God made a promise using exact language to them. To let them know all would be gathered.

Deuteronomy 30:4 "If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee"

So Christ saying he would gather them from one end of heaven to the other is the same promised language in Deuteronomy 30:4.

So that is not the rapture but the gather of Israel the restoration that the disciples asked about. Christ when asked by the disciples where would they be gathered he said where the eagles and vultures and birds are.

Revelation as well as the old testament prophets let us know that in that day of his return that those who rose against them he would slay them in Jerusalem and that the birds would be gathered there to eat the flesh of the slain.

So they will be gathered from their captivity and hiding and brought to him in Jerusalem as promised.

 

[DavyP]

Christ's Mention of The Asleep Saints Gathered "from one end of heaven to the other." (Matt.24:31).

That aligns with what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 about Jesus bringing the asleep saints with Him when He comes.

1 Thess 4:13-16
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

Therefore, the Matthew 24:31 idea of the saints that are gathered FROM one end of heaven to the other, is simply about the asleep saints being RESURRECTED on that day of Christ's coming, and as He DESCENDS to earth He brings them with Him, like Paul said.

Where does God's Word then reveal just WHERE Lord Jesus Christ is going to DESCEND to?

Very simple, because the Zechariah 14 Scripture says He will descend to EARTH with His feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem. Acts 1 also confirms that is where He will literally return to, and was where He ascended to Heaven from.


Going Deeper:

This part in God's written Word many brethren struggle with, when they should not.

As per Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, on the "last trump", that being the final 7th Trumpet of Revelation 11 when Jesus returns, there is to be 'change' at the "twinkling of an eye" from our flesh body type to the resurrection type body, a "spiritual body". That is why Paul said there that we shall not all 'sleep', but we shall all be changed. What does that mean where the Heavenly dimension will be revealed?

This is what many brethren find difficult; because what Paul showed will happen on that day of Christ's future return is that the Heavenly dimension is going to be revealed right here, ON EARTH. I'm surprised that so many forget about God's Garden of Eden of Genesis 2 that was once upon this earth, with God walking in His Garden, and His River of the Waters of Life flowing outside of Eden to feed 4 other rivers upon this earth, two of which still exist today (Euphrates and Hiddekel or Tigris).

Even more difficult for many brethren in Christ, is Apostle Paul pulling from Isaiah 25 about the idea of death being swallowed up in victory on that day of Christ's future return, as that Isaiah 25 Scripture involves the nations too, and not only the Church. That is most difficult for many, because most teaching from 1 Cor.15 about the change to the "spiritual body" is applied only for those in Christ, when Paul actually taught 2 different 'types' of changes on that day, one for the Church, and another type for the wicked and unbelieving aligned with the "resurrection of damnation" that Jesus showed in John 5:28-29.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

And going even Deeper into God's "Revelation of The Mystery" to Paul, we can now
compare Scriptures, Rightly Dividing God's Word Of Truth:

God's Great GRACE Departure!​

Amen.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Christ when returns he is going to gather Israel unto him and then restore the kingdom of which he will sit upon the throne.

So Matthew 24:29-31 is exact language of that promised restoration he spoke to them in Deuteronomy. To let them know none of them would be overlooked or forgotten God made a promise using exact language to them. To let them know all would be gathered.

Deuteronomy 30:4 "If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee"
So Christ saying he would gather them from one end of heaven to the other is the same promised language in Deuteronomy 30:4.

So that is not the rapture but the gather of Israel the restoration that the disciples asked about. [...]

Amen, and well said!

This is indeed the CONTEXT (of Jesus' words in His Olivet Discourse).



Jesus was NOT covering the Subject of "our Rapture" (anywhere) in His Olivet Discourse. He was speaking about His Second Coming to the earth (and the specific, future, LIMITED time-period that leads up to THAT).

Nice post!





[I believe in the Matt24 text, "heavens" is in the plural, as it also is in Deut30:4 (in the Hebrew) - https://biblehub.com/text/deuteronomy/30-4.htm ... speaking of where they'd been "driven out"]

 

[Pilgrimshope]

And going even Deeper into God's "Revelation of The Mystery" to Paul, we can now
compare Scriptures, Rightly Dividing God's Word Of Truth:

God's Great GRACE Departure!​

Amen.

“For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, if ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: ( that’s the mystery now revealed by paul and the other apostles and prophets . That The kingdom wasn’t just for Israel when he came it was for everyone else as well )

whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭3:1-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬