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All I was saying is the devil likes to "separate the flock" and disrupt fellowship with one another >.>
No point in that James kinda like preaching to the pope he figures he has all the answers too and as I said if your gonna use so called imperical data that only speaks of the negative aspects of something you are being one sided. The only way you can speak about this topic to me is if you are a reformed pothead period. Anybody elses opinion means absolutely nothing. Your opinion is derived from decades of counterwork done by the prospective Governments involved and their attempt to quell what they considered to be dangerous to the maintaining of their establishment.
It had nothing to do with protecting you or your children from said danger. If that were the case they would have criminalized tobacco and alcohol too. Spewing doctrine from medical sites and doctors funded in part or in whole by the goverment towards their own ends is just the kind of deceptive game they intended from the start. I.E intelligence/counter intelligence. So far as me bringing my data to prove my point that is just pointless because if you refute my words as you have already done then no amount of data would ever change your opinion on the topic and it would just be a further waste of my time.
FREEDOM OF CHOICE JIMMY THATS WHAT IT"S ALL ABOUT
What if tomorrow the Government made it illegal to worship Our Lord would you bow down to the overlords of the land because of the new law. I WOULDN"T NOT NEVER
T
TheGrungeDiva
Guest
Here's the real question: IF it were LEGAL .... would it be a sin?
A lot of people here seem to be saying simply, "Yes, it's a sin because it's illegal." Well, I think that's a cop-out. There are lots of things that are legal but are sins ... abortion comes to mind.
So, let's say congress repealed prohibition, and all of a sudden it's legal to smoke the stuff. Now, under what circumstances would it be a sin, and under what circumstances would it be not a sin?
If you say there are instances for it to be not sinful (especially in cases where people have diseases that are helped by the use of marijuana) .... Then we have to ask: is following this state law blindly not in conflict with God's Law? In other words, does following the federal law against marijuana actually stand in the way of following God's law?
I would say yes, in cases where marijuana use is medically helpful to a patient. Some states allow use under a "medical marijuana" clause, but there are many problems with this. (1) Not all states allow for medical marijuana use, (2) Among the states that do allow for it, most still set up many hoops to jump through to get the license for this. And if you're sick in bed, the likelihood of you being able to jump all the hoops decreases, (3) currently, there is not a consistent and reputable source for medical marijuana. Which means even those who do qualify in those states that allow for it and you manage to meet all the criteria, obtaining marijuana still involves dealing with unsavory people, which is part of the reason I stated above for the problem with marijuana to begin with. It's not like you can go to Walgreens to buy the stuff. Many states that have medical marijuana exceptions, the license only means if you're caught with pot on you, and have one of those cards, the authorities won't prosecute you. (4) Even if you happen to live in a state that has medical marijuana AND has some specific and relatively safe ways of dispensing it, it's still against FEDERAL law. Which means sure, the local authorities won't bother you, but they may very well send your name on to the feds, who can prosecute you if they want.
People who need this medication are still rather stuck. And the REASON that marijuana is still illegal is because the drug dealers are lobbying AGAINST legalizing it. They actually know they'll lose business if it's made legal.
So, do you think God wants us to work towards making it legal, under-cutting the drug dealers, and allowing those in need a safe access to medication?
A lot of people here seem to be saying simply, "Yes, it's a sin because it's illegal." Well, I think that's a cop-out. There are lots of things that are legal but are sins ... abortion comes to mind.
So, let's say congress repealed prohibition, and all of a sudden it's legal to smoke the stuff. Now, under what circumstances would it be a sin, and under what circumstances would it be not a sin?
If you say there are instances for it to be not sinful (especially in cases where people have diseases that are helped by the use of marijuana) .... Then we have to ask: is following this state law blindly not in conflict with God's Law? In other words, does following the federal law against marijuana actually stand in the way of following God's law?
I would say yes, in cases where marijuana use is medically helpful to a patient. Some states allow use under a "medical marijuana" clause, but there are many problems with this. (1) Not all states allow for medical marijuana use, (2) Among the states that do allow for it, most still set up many hoops to jump through to get the license for this. And if you're sick in bed, the likelihood of you being able to jump all the hoops decreases, (3) currently, there is not a consistent and reputable source for medical marijuana. Which means even those who do qualify in those states that allow for it and you manage to meet all the criteria, obtaining marijuana still involves dealing with unsavory people, which is part of the reason I stated above for the problem with marijuana to begin with. It's not like you can go to Walgreens to buy the stuff. Many states that have medical marijuana exceptions, the license only means if you're caught with pot on you, and have one of those cards, the authorities won't prosecute you. (4) Even if you happen to live in a state that has medical marijuana AND has some specific and relatively safe ways of dispensing it, it's still against FEDERAL law. Which means sure, the local authorities won't bother you, but they may very well send your name on to the feds, who can prosecute you if they want.
People who need this medication are still rather stuck. And the REASON that marijuana is still illegal is because the drug dealers are lobbying AGAINST legalizing it. They actually know they'll lose business if it's made legal.
So, do you think God wants us to work towards making it legal, under-cutting the drug dealers, and allowing those in need a safe access to medication?
Yep as soon as it was decriminalized the criminal element would be erradicated, immediately no more underground criminal element to worry about=less people in prison = less bureaucratic infrastructure=less taxes out of your pocket.
Spiritually speaking though we should not condemn our brothers and sisters who have fallen to the lusts of the flesh, if anything we should be more caring for their needs rather than trying to protect ourselves from what we percieve as an attack on our moral compass.
Personally I do not support the use of any man made narcotic or the misuse of one made by God.
Unfortunately people have a hard time differentiating between use and misuse. This is generally speaking because of societal dogmas associated with the perception of the usage.
If God made it it can't be bad period. It is our misuse of a God given substance that makes it bad not the substance in itself. When we put controls and laws in place under the guise of protecting the public we are superceding laws already given to us however good the intentions may be.
In doing this we are usurping Gods authority and mishandling the truth to support our own agendas, Whatever they may be.
J
jimmydiggs
Guest
"A lot of people here seem to be saying simply, "Yes, it's a sin because it's illegal." Well, I think that's a cop-out. There are lots of things that are legal but are sins ... abortion comes to mind."
It's not a cop-out. It's just tell you what scripture says. If it were no longer illegal, then the question shifts to another area. (for example, sobriety)
The issue of it being illegal, is just an easier route. As it's being illegal does not conflict with divine imperative.
Also, using it to get high and have a thrill of a time, and snorting crack off of the.. well you know.. would still be an issue with the principle laid out in Matthew 6:24. (can only have one god)
The following quoted principles would still apply, even if legal.
EDIT: Fixed the link.
http://www.nida.nih.gov/NIDA_notes/NNVol15N1/DirRepVol15N1.html <-- click
INB4 "zomg, gubment conspirazeee"
It's not a cop-out. It's just tell you what scripture says. If it were no longer illegal, then the question shifts to another area. (for example, sobriety)
The issue of it being illegal, is just an easier route. As it's being illegal does not conflict with divine imperative.
Also, using it to get high and have a thrill of a time, and snorting crack off of the.. well you know.. would still be an issue with the principle laid out in Matthew 6:24. (can only have one god)
The following quoted principles would still apply, even if legal.
EDIT: Fixed the link.
http://www.nida.nih.gov/NIDA_notes/NNVol15N1/DirRepVol15N1.html <-- click
INB4 "zomg, gubment conspirazeee"
J
jimmydiggs
Guest
I had typed up quite a bit (several paragraphs) and CC changed the page (dumb laptop pad), I don't really have the time right now to retype it all. (have applied calculus to study)
So I will sum up what I had to say:
Stop argueing empty rhetoric. Demonstrate that what you say is true by way of scripture, or kindly back out of the conversation.
Jimmy their are no scriptures which directly apply to Marijuana sorry man you are wrong!
Lusts of the flesh perhaps, drunkeness laciviousness etc.
I agree with in part your viewpoint of what you say IN PART!
My so called rhetoric as you say is not as empty as your wisdom on this topic.
If you feel the need to bend scripture to support your otherwise weak case so be it!
It is only to your detriment not mine!
P.S. I will kindly back out of a conversation when I'M ready not when a person of little understanding of this topic bids me too.
Thanks for your understanding
Selah
I never saw jimmy bend scripture...he MIGHT (huge might) have given scripture that didn't apply, but he didn't edit scripture to fit this certain situation. That's what bending scripture is. Is leaving stuff out and then maybe even adding your own thing.
Thanks lil for the correction Duely noted.
I will make a greater effort in the future to more clearly articulate what I'm saying so as not to be misinterpreted.
Bending scripture can also mean to improperly impose a viewpoint by using any particular scripture in the bible for the purposes of sanctifying ones own viewpoint. I do try to be VERY careful about this as not to incur the wrath of the Lord upon myself.
Which as we all know wouldn't be good.
peace and love Lil
Selah
This is not the attitude that someone who professes to be a Christian should have with their fellow Brother/Sister. I'll pray for you.
I can't believe some of you would say that smoking weed is fall for lust. For many is true, but would you say the same for those that have smoked weed and felt a connection w God! No you can not sincerely because it is not ur place to judge of that. I'm not somone that abuses weed EVER, but when I have smoked it, my experience was well unique, scary, and wonderful. It had no affiliation w lust and underminding anyone or destroying anyone nor to cause the Lord God to be angry w me. I know it's illegal, and I'm not going to bother asking why, unfortunately because the justice system is immense, and who can stand up against them, and I'll be prosecuted and oppressed for my belief, and even maybe murdered, which oppression and prosecution has happen already happen to me, all that is left is for me to be murdered because of arrogance and hatred?! I know it's an herb that's even used as medicine! Man's law in the justice system is uncomprehendable, because when the Lord God Jesus Christ died He died for all humanity's sins, and thus when someone repents of their sin and excepted the Saviour, they are forgiven, but yet when you get in trouble w the law, they hold it against you for several years and keep record of it. Many people have suffered loss of dreams, careers, and plundered to the world of drugs and drinking because of this. Weed is a plant, not a fake one, but part of the green earth that your Lord God created. You go by what man says about weed and scientific study as well, and then use verses from the bible to try and relate to what you assume is wrong, which is not right! I hope someday the Lord God can clarify the truth about marijuana and show that their are righteous smokers, because a lot of pot smokers that aren't righteous smokers but lust to be cool or to fornicate, use perverse language, or to get drunk, or to rob, or to be violent, or to rape, or to rap about it w half naked women at their sides in music videos; have ruined the divine pure purpose of the plant! But some of you on here are like OMG weed is bad, it's illegal, your lusting, your evil, laddy dah dah! Whatever folks, did God tell you directly, or did man, and it seems to me it's man who told you that, but who told man that it's bad? Hmmm something to ponder on! No where in the bible does it directly say YOU MUST NOT TAKE IN WEED! and don't try to argue w me concerning this because I promise you with all my heart and soul that you WILL receive a response from the Lord God DIRECTLY and then you will be abased! Please take heed, that nothing is wrong with weed! much love! Peace is of the Lord God only, so I don't wish you peace, but rather understanding.
J
jimmydiggs
Guest
So now we resort to Ad Hominem Fallacies? "he's twisting scripture!" How about instead of ignoring the bible, you actually pay attention to it on this issue.
I will continue to post my list of verses, so long as those who ignore scripture keep trying to justify sin on the basis of empty rhetoric.
Hey Jimmy I tried to click on the link you put in amongst the Scripture and it didn't work... :/
J
jimmydiggs
Guest
I knew the one in the text didn't work, because it was an incomplete link. I checked on post 108 where I put the original link, and apparently that one doesn't work either. Tis a shame, it was an excellent page.
Marijuana - InfoFacts - NIDA <--- click
This one will have to suffice, it's similar information, but not as good as the one I did have.
Cordyceps: attack of the killer fungi - Planet Earth Attenborough BBC wildlife - YouTube <--- your brain on drugs
OK James what if it is being used as medicine not to get high but as an honest to goodness medicine as in a herbal tea for joint pain, Pain relief for glaucoma in the form of a capsule (they have those you know) or for 1 of any several thousand ailments known to man is it ok then Jimmy or do you think everyone should just take two aspirins and call you in the morning.
I'm not defending the lusts of the flesh thing that your pounding home like it's a 12" dock spike in a timber. I know what peter said in 2 peter about obeying the laws of the land Thankyou very much. The point I'm making and that you can't seem to comprehend is the laws that were put in place by our governments pertaining to this issue were not put there for the goodness of ourselves but to help maintain the authority of the state of the union and falsely at that. They did not follow scripture when making the laws pertaining to marijuana. It's obvious from your viewpoint that you are of the old school of thought and thats fine, your entitled to your opinion. But who are you or anybody else for that matter to make laws and proclaim that a plant made by God or posession of said plant or cultivation of said plant is illegal get off your high horse and yes that is what the debates about. Not about how you sidelined the whole topic with scripture in an effort to put forth your obvious views on the plant itself.
Once again I say to you if Obama made it illegal tomorrow to pray to Jesus would you stop praying? (noticed you never answered that question from my other post Jimmy)
You seem to be under the assumption that the state is above scriptural law?
P.S. As well your scripture references are aimed at lusts of the flesh and that is NOT what I am debating here that's what your debating, diifferentiate!
F
FillieRaven
Guest
i really do not think smoking weed is really all that horrible. a sin is a sin is a sin. there is no way to avoid it we are all going to sin everyday the majority of which we wont even know we are doing or thinking, a lot of us will make the choice to do so knowing its wrong, and others we will avoid. no sin is greater than the other so standing around judging which sins are worse just so people have a reason to feel better about themselves just creates more sin. i say let people live love them and show them what jesus was about.... love not judgement.
J
jimmydiggs
Guest
Romans 13.
Nope, they didn't.
Well, the bible is a little under 2000 years old, and in other areas much older than that. So I guess yes, I would be old school in thought. It's not simple opinion though.
I don't say, "Marijuana is a sin" because I don't like it. I don't like alcohol, but I don't run around saying drinking alcohol is a sin (except it is sinful to get drunk).
I don't see how I sidelined it. The verses are all relevant to the subject matter.
I apparently did not see it. I had to go back through the posts and look for it. If you had read the whole thread, you would know that I've already answered that question though.
Refer to post 42.
JimmyDiggs said:
Where do you get that idea? I've argued over and over on this forum, that all moral authority rests on God.
You've not made the distinction until now from what I have read. However, that matters not, scripture still applies. Scripture has made this clear on several points.
Here it is again.
posted said: