John 16:32-33 Amplified Bible

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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,558
497
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#1
John 16:32-33

Amplified Bible



32 Take careful notice: an hour is coming, and has arrived, when you will all be scattered, each to his own home, leaving Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. 33 I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace. In the world you have tribulation and distress and suffering, but be courageous [be confident, be undaunted, be filled with joy]; I have overcome the world.” [My conquest is accomplished, My victory abiding.]

therefore are we to fear, really?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,558
497
83
#2
John 16:32-33

Amplified Bible



32 Take careful notice: an hour is coming, and has arrived, when you will all be scattered, each to his own home, leaving Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. 33 I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace. In the world you have tribulation and distress and suffering, but be courageous [be confident, be undaunted, be filled with joy]; I have overcome the world.” [My conquest is accomplished, My victory abiding.]

therefore are we to fear, really?
1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love [dread does not exist]. But perfect (complete, full-grown) love drives out fear, because fear involves [the expectation of divine] punishment, so the one who is afraid [of God’s judgment] is not perfected in love [has not grown into a sufficient understanding of God’s love].
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
113
#3
John 16:32-33

Amplified Bible



32 Take careful notice: an hour is coming, and has arrived, when you will all be scattered, each to his own home, leaving Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. 33 I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace. In the world you have tribulation and distress and suffering, but be courageous [be confident, be undaunted, be filled with joy]; I have overcome the world.” [My conquest is accomplished, My victory abiding.]

therefore are we to fear, really?
You want to know the real interesting part that this verse is teaching? Specifically, this part: "Take careful notice: an hour is coming, and has arrived, when you will all be scattered, each to his own home, leaving Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me."

It proves that God the Father did NOT forsake His Son on the cross.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,558
497
83
#4
You want to know the real interesting part that this verse is teaching? Specifically, this part: "Take careful notice: an hour is coming, and has arrived, when you will all be scattered, each to his own home, leaving Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me."

It proves that God the Father did NOT forsake His Son on the cross.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Amen a million times over and over again, psalm 100:4, 103:12
 

Bruce_Leiter

Active member
Feb 17, 2023
427
192
43
#6
John 16:32-33

Amplified Bible



32 Take careful notice: an hour is coming, and has arrived, when you will all be scattered, each to his own home, leaving Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. 33 I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace. In the world you have tribulation and distress and suffering, but be courageous [be confident, be undaunted, be filled with joy]; I have overcome the world.” [My conquest is accomplished, My victory abiding.]

therefore are we to fear, really?
Always remember that this is one of Jesus' commands ("be courageous"). We need Jesus' gift of his peace to focus our lives on him and need to pray for that peace (see Philippians 4:6 and 7). In that passage, joy and peace replace our anxieties when we request them from him. Then, his peace is his gift.

Personally, I have been able to pray persistently by expressing my feelings openly and honestly about a half dozen struggles in my life like David in almost half of the Psalms (for example, Psalms 22, 39, 88, which are the most obvious lamenting Psalms) and like the persistent widow in Jesus' parable. He has given me his peace to accept the circumstances every time.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#7
...and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me." It proves that God the Father did NOT forsake His Son on the cross.
It prove no such thing. What it does prove is that God the Father was always with His Son, and always fully approved of what Christ did and said.

But in those three dark hours on the cross it was a DIVINE NECESSITY that the Father literally forsake the Son. Why? Because unless He did that, the sin debt could not be fully paid. Therefore we read this, and it is true and factual as coming from the lips of Christ as He hung on that cross: Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matthew 27:45,46)[/QUOTE]
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,558
497
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#8
It prove no such thing. What it does prove is that God the Father was always with His Son, and always fully approved of what Christ did and said.

But in those three dark hours on the cross it was a DIVINE NECESSITY that the Father literally forsake the Son. Why? Because unless He did that, the sin debt could not be fully paid. Therefore we read this, and it is true and factual as coming from the lips of Christ as He hung on that cross: Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matthew 27:45,46)
[/QUOTE]

It assuredly felt that way, yet truth is Father has not and does not forsake anyone. It can only seem as has, does and will, that be flesh nature inn us all.
To me anyway as each sees and grows new in this done work for them too, done by Son for us all on that cross to cross over in belief too, or not
Believe, receive and see, yet not instantly in flesh nature, yet from God Father of risen Son yes instantly
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,178
5,727
113
#9
John 16:32-33

Amplified Bible



32 Take careful notice: an hour is coming, and has arrived, when you will all be scattered, each to his own home, leaving Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. 33 I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace. In the world you have tribulation and distress and suffering, but be courageous [be confident, be undaunted, be filled with joy]; I have overcome the world.” [My conquest is accomplished, My victory abiding.]

therefore are we to fear, really?
“And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. And all that believed were together, and had all things common; and sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:42-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭1:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To fear God

And to be afraid of God

are two different things
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
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#10
It prove no such thing. What it does prove is that God the Father was always with His Son, and always fully approved of what Christ did and said.

But in those three dark hours on the cross it was a DIVINE NECESSITY that the Father literally forsake the Son. Why? Because unless He did that, the sin debt could not be fully paid. Therefore we read this, and it is true and factual as coming from the lips of Christ as He hung on that cross: Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matthew 27:45,46)
[/QUOTE]
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
113
#11
It prove no such thing. What it does prove is that God the Father was always with His Son, and always fully approved of what Christ did and said.

But in those three dark hours on the cross it was a DIVINE NECESSITY that the Father literally forsake the Son. Why? Because unless He did that, the sin debt could not be fully paid. Therefore we read this, and it is true and factual as coming from the lips of Christ as He hung on that cross: Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matthew 27:45,46)
[/QUOTE]

You said this: "But in those three dark hours on the cross it was a DIVINE NECESSITY that the Father literally forsake the Son. Why? Because unless He did that, the sin debt could not be fully paid." Why would the sin debt NOT be paid if the Father did NOT forsake His only begotten Son? What do you mean by a "DIVINE NECESSITY?"

Isaiah 53:4, "Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried, Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken. Smitten of God, and afflicted." And here's an oldie but a goody. John 10:17-18, "For this reason the Father loves Me, (why) because I lay down My life that I may take it again. Vs18, "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."

Hebrews 12:2, "fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the same, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God." Does this sound to you that His own Father forsook or abandoned His own Son on that cross?

Around 60 or so years ago I was taught that God the Father forsook His Son because the Father could not look upon sin and shortly after that explanation I changed my position. The Father WAS NOT looking at sin, He was looking at His sinless Son who was the bearer of all our sins.

Now, I have question for you? Jesus on that cross quoted Psalm 22:1, why? In fact, do you know why David made that statement? The answer is found in the context. David was being hunted down by King Saul and starting at vs2 David is explaining his feelings. He's asking where are You God! I'm groaning, I have no rest, why don't you answer me? Vs6, I am a worm, all who see me sneer. vs121, Many bulls have surrounded me, strong bulls. Vs 14, I am poured out like water. My bones are out of joint. Vs16, Dogs have surrounded me. They pierced my hands and feet.

Vs19, "but Thou, O Lord be not far off; O Thou my help, hasten to my assistance. Deliver my soul from the sword etc. Then at vs21 David realized that God has answered him. He starts praising God from vs22-31. The point being that David "felt" forsaken and yet God was there all along. As well, I believe Jesus felt forsaken even though He was not forsaken because His Father was with Him. 2 Corinthians 5:19.

In January of 1968 I arrived in Vietnam. The Tet offensive started two weeks later. Tet is a celebration of the New Year. It was at this time we were under unending attack by the Viet Cong, by snipers and by continuous rocket attacks two weeks straight. It was "horrible" and the attack seemed endless. I kept praying and asking "Where are you God?" Apparently He answered my prayer because I'm here posting too you. Now, I can't explain why some of the men who died prayed as well. This is no God's "purview?" I'm also sure many of you have been in situations where you felt God was not there and yet you were delivered.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#12
Around 60 or so years ago I was taught that God the Father forsook His Son because the Father could not look upon sin and shortly after that explanation I changed my position. The Father WAS NOT looking at sin, He was looking at His sinless Son who was the bearer of all our sins.
You have read the actual words of Christ. If you claim God the Father did not forsake the Son for three dark hours you are making Christ a liar.

His sinless Son " WAS MADE SIN FOR US". Did you never see that in the Bible? The sinless Son took upon Himself the curse which was upon the world. And that is why we read this (Gal 3:13): Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Opinions do not count. If Christ said what He said then that is a settled matter. One Scripture never contradicts another Scripture, so taking Scripture out of context does not help anyone. Of course the Father loved the Son for laying down His life. That does not contradict what was stated on the cross.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
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#13
You said, "One Scripture never contradicts another Scripture, so taking Scripture out of context does not help anyone." That's right, so I have one question for you?

At Psalm 22:1-2, King David said, "My God, my God why hast Thou forsaken me? Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning. O my God, I cry by day, but Thou dost not answer; And by night, but I have no rest. Using your own line of reasoning was David lying, did God forsake him?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,558
497
83
#14
[/QUOTE]
You said, "One Scripture never contradicts another Scripture, so taking Scripture out of context does not help anyone." That's right, so I have one question for you?

At Psalm 22:1-2, King David said, "My God, my God why hast Thou forsaken me? Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning. O my God, I cry by day, but Thou dost not answer; And by night, but I have no rest. Using your own line of reasoning was David lying, did God forsake him?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
To me, it felt that way to David and Jesus, Tells me what feelings do, if feelings are leading you.
John 10:10 The Thief (Feelings) comes to steal, kill and destroy us. Feelings bring on worry, afraid, scared, not knowing future, wanting to know future and so conjecture it out and does it really come out as one conjectures it come out?
The Pharisees did not, would not believe Jesus, wanting to be the one's in charge as they were in that day. Jesus upset the apple cart, They saw, the people not going to them anymore for advice, or for anything else. They got jealous and had to get rid of Jesus. Has anything changed, do people to this day, still want to be the leader?
Analogy: A train has an engine and a caboose. The engine (truth) pulls the train, the caboose follows.
God is the engine, the caboose is emotions, we are the people in the middle. therefore what are we going to do, get led by the caboose our feelings or by God in the lead of all things, where peace and security reside, no matter what troubles are going on, have gone on or might go on?
Believe, receive and see new from God to you leading opver feelings?
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,890
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#15
You said, "One Scripture never contradicts another Scripture, so taking Scripture out of context does not help anyone." That's right, so I have one question for you?

At Psalm 22:1-2, King David said, "My God, my God why hast Thou forsaken me? Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning. O my God, I cry by day, but Thou dost not answer; And by night, but I have no rest. Using your own line of reasoning was David lying, did God forsake him?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I agree. I used to believe, or rather, I was taught that God the Father rejected the Son because He became sin for us. This was a teaching made popular from the Evangelical church leadership. I didn't give it much thought until I was older and had walked with the Lord for some time.

Jesus was quoting Psalm 22

"My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?
2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent."


The Jews, and perhaps some of the Romans nearby, would have recognized this as scripture.

Notice Jesus did not say "You have forsaken me!" He is in anguish in His body and soul. And from His anguish He asks His Father "Why have you forsaken me?" Have we not asked God ourselves "Why do you despise me?" It is the experience of all sons of God.

Psalm 22 is a cry to God. Jesus on the cross was the fulfillment of this Psalm.

"But I am a worm, and no man;
A reproach of men, and despised by the people."


and

“He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!”


This actually occurred as He was on the cross.

Matthew 27:43 the people near Him taunted Him and said, “He trusted in God; let Him deliver Him now if He will have Him; for He said, ‘I am the Son of God.’”

In Psalms 22

"They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots."


And during His crucifixion:

"Then they crucified Him, and divided His garments, casting lots..."

The point is: this prophetic Psalm is happening real-time in view of all the witnesses!

So, let's see how God responds to the one crying out in Psalm 22:

In Psalm 22 verse 21: "You have answered Me."

and in verse 24

"For He (God) has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from Him;
But when He cried to Him, He heard."


So there: God did not turn His back on the Son.

So what was the darkness all about?

This is the fulfillment of Amos 8. It reads:

“The end has come upon My people Israel;
I will not pass by them anymore.
And the songs of the temple
Shall be wailing in that day,


We know that violence was done to the temple: the veil of separation was torn in two. By that time, the Jewish priests and the people should have taken it down. God, in Jesus, was walking among them. There was no veil of separation in the days Jesus ministered. But, they couldn't see it. They continued their empty religion even though the Lord had changed the rules.

Amos continued to write:

“And it shall come to pass in that day,” says the Lord God,
That I will make the sun go down at noon,
And I will darken the earth in broad daylight.
.."


and furthermore:

"I will turn your feasts into mourning,
And all your songs into lamentation;
I will bring sackcloth on every waist,
And baldness on every head;
I will make it like mourning for an only son,
And its end like a bitter day."


Jesus is the Word of God. When you reject the Word of God, no reverence for scripture will cause you to hear anything from the Father. If you reject the Son you reject the Father as well. In that sate, you are dead but still walking upright. This was the judgment of the people of Israel: dead men walking. Their songs, traditions, religion, feasts, etc. were now empty and hollow.

Of course there is more but that is a sufficient summary.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,558
497
83
#16
6 minutes ago
#15
bluto said:
You said, "One Scripture never contradicts another Scripture, so taking Scripture out of context does not help anyone." That's right, so I have one question for you?

At Psalm 22:1-2, King David said, "My God, my God why hast Thou forsaken me? Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning. O my God, I cry by day, but Thou dost not answer; And by night, but I have no rest. Using your own line of reasoning was David lying, did God forsake him?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Click to expand...
I agree. I used to believe, or rather, I was taught that God the Father rejected the Son because He became sin for us. This was a teaching made popular from the Evangelical church leadership. I didn't give it much thought until I was older and had walked with the Lord for some time.

Jesus was quoting Psalm 22

"My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?
2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent."


The Jews, and perhaps some of the Romans nearby, would have recognized this as scripture.

Notice Jesus did not say "You have forsaken me!" He is in anguish in His body and soul. And from His anguish He asks His Father "Why have you forsaken me?" Have we not asked God ourselves "Why do you despise me?" It is the experience of all sons of God.

Psalm 22 is a cry to God. Jesus on the cross was the fulfillment of this Psalm.

"But I am a worm, and no man;
A reproach of men, and despised by the people."
end Quote


A worm turned into a Butterfly
 

Bruce_Leiter

Active member
Feb 17, 2023
427
192
43
#18
6 minutes ago
#15

bluto said:
You said, "One Scripture never contradicts another Scripture, so taking Scripture out of context does not help anyone." That's right, so I have one question for you?

At Psalm 22:1-2, King David said, "My God, my God why hast Thou forsaken me? Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning. O my God, I cry by day, but Thou dost not answer; And by night, but I have no rest. Using your own line of reasoning was David lying, did God forsake him?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Click to expand...
I agree. I used to believe, or rather, I was taught that God the Father rejected the Son because He became sin for us. This was a teaching made popular from the Evangelical church leadership. I didn't give it much thought until I was older and had walked with the Lord for some time.

Jesus was quoting Psalm 22

"My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?
2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent."


The Jews, and perhaps some of the Romans nearby, would have recognized this as scripture.

Notice Jesus did not say "You have forsaken me!" He is in anguish in His body and soul. And from His anguish He asks His Father "Why have you forsaken me?" Have we not asked God ourselves "Why do you despise me?" It is the experience of all sons of God.

Psalm 22 is a cry to God. Jesus on the cross was the fulfillment of this Psalm.

"But I am a worm, and no man;
A reproach of men, and despised by the people."
end Quote


A worm turned into a Butterfly
On the other hand, when Jesus quotes Psalm 22:1, the context of the Psalm is that David's enemies are surrounding him, and he cries out for God's help. Jesus experiences a similar situation and laments in struggle with the same temptation to dispair. The resolution to his struggle is his words "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit," when he rejects his temptation to turn away from his Father.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,558
497
83
#19
On the other hand, when Jesus quotes Psalm 22:1, the context of the Psalm is that David's enemies are surrounding him, and he cries out for God's help. Jesus experiences a similar situation and laments in struggle with the same temptation to dispair. The resolution to his struggle is his words "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit," when he rejects his temptation to turn away from his Father.
And yells "It is finished" What was/is finished? John 19:30
Matthew 5:17
“Don’t misunderstand why I have come—it isn’t to cancel the laws of Moses and the warnings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them and to make them all come true.

Then risen never to die for any more sin ever again, it is done for us to receive in belief to God Father, thank you berry much Jesus the Messiah, new life given us to stand in beleif to this truth as we each go through troubles too