Loss of salvation???

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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The basis was obedience out of love, not law.
not unless they knew love is good and not evil.

no morality, no basis for moral behavior.

they did not gain morality by committing sin.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,973
420
83
not unless they knew love is good and not evil.

no morality, no basis for moral behavior
Love for another is not an intellectual exercise.

Just like you feel hungry without being told to be hungry.

It has to be there ....
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
Genesis 2:16​
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat


Adam clearly has free will to make choices based on what he discerns as good, because Christ commanded him to do so.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
Love for another is not an intellectual exercise.

Just like you feel hungry without being told to be hungry.

It has to be there ....
how do you know love isn't evil?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
5,727
113
Why does it say? Everything created was created THROUGH Him.

Why?.....
Jesus by means of His soul, was God's means to make sure that everything that was created?
Would be created in a manner that men (who are souls) would be able to relate to what was created.
That is why without Him nothing was created!

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." John 1:3​
grace and peace ..............
Why does it say? Everything created was created THROUGH Him.


for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not his fault of people don’t recognize him

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
5,727
113
Genesis 2:16​
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat


Adam clearly has free will to make choices based on what he discerns as good, because Christ commanded him to do so.
Amen

It’s part of Gods design for mankind the very first commandment says he is free , but then tells him of the danger and not to do it.

“ you are free but you must not lest ye die “
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
5,727
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if He does not save our flesh there is no resurrection and we are the most miserable of people, with no hope.

Romans 8:11​
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

….So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body,

and there is a spiritual body.

… And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35, 42, 44, 49-51‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,973
420
83
Why does it say? Everything created was created THROUGH Him.


for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not his fault of people don’t recognize him

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Because God is not just the Son.
All three coalesced in the creation,

His Soul was the standard and determiner by which all three in God's power would produce what the Son designed and desired to come into existence.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
5,727
113
They knew good in knowing God...

:)
Amen One doesn’t have to know evil to believe what God said is true. It would make it much easier fornus if man never knew evil there wouldn’t have been a challenge to the good and what God said would just be what man followed
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
940
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Australia
why do you assume my pointing out that only because of His deity does the cross have any value is an assumption that someone is denying that deity?


millions of people have died falsely accused.
what makes this death any more significant than anyone else?
Well who has said anyone but God saves?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
5,727
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Because God is not just the Son.
All three coalesced in the creation,

His Soul was the standard and determiner by which all three in God's power would produce what the Son designed and desired to come into existence.
God isn’t three , he is one that’s why not calls him ( him ) his name is Jesus

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭12:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:30‬ ‭KJV‬

“Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:20‬ ‭

“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:10‬ ‭

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

…And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:8, 17-18‬ ‭

Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:10‬ ‭

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. THE END”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13, 16, 20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed:

blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:28-29‬ ‭

So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now we have an intercessor who can save us because when there wasn’t one on the Old Testament

“And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke. So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:16-17, 19-

Now the son is our intercessor we do have one now

“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Our God came to earth in the flesh to save us , his name is Jesus there’s o my one God he has manifest himself in three forms to mankind the invisible creator in the Old Testament in the heavens

“The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven: His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The same came to earth born and lived as a man , because there was no man left who was without sin who could intercede and save mankind from destruction through intercession. Like Moses and then the preists and prophets had done before

he saw there was no man so he became a man ( the son ) he is one God is actually a spirit a portion of his spirit from heaven was manifest in the flesh of a man Jesus Christ there’s only one lord and God and father of all we find him in the son

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,973
420
83
how do you know obedience isn't evil?

how do you know it isn't good to die?
How did you know to ask those questions?
How do you know your questions were not evil in motivation?
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
Adam wasn't fooled. He didn't sin because of unbelief. He sinned wilfully, but not due to unbelief...1 Timothy 2:14.
Adam didn't trust God to come up with a remedy for Eve's sin, so did not consult with God before following suit. Had he trusted God, he would have consulted Him first. His distrust of God led him to think of a strategy for himself without consulting God first. Every sin is the result of not trusting God in our moments of considering, deciding and acting.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,973
420
83
Adam didn't trust God to come up with a remedy for Eve's sin, so did not consult with God before following suit. Had he trusted God, he would have consulted Him first. His distrust of God led him to think of a strategy for himself without consulting God first. Every sin is the result of not trusting God in our moments of considering, deciding and acting.
That's what Satan has been doing wherever someone will lend him an ear.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
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Read the passage I gave. Adam wasn't deceived. No different from people smoking. They believe it will lead to poor health and eventually death. They do it anyway.
Belief in facts and / or false facts is not enough consistently to empower us to avoid sin. Communion with God through trust in Him connects us to the power to walk in grace and righteousness. That power is Him, the one we are connecting to by faith, not some truth claim that we profess confidence in but which is not Him.