Please help me to respond to some of my non-trinitarian friends
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And, everybody reading along knows what you guys are talking about.....
Its as easy as 1,2,3.
OP's friend has some weird metaphysical semantics which would probably take an hour of in-person conversation to sort out; which seems to happen a lot when people try to explain the nature of God in their own words.And, everybody reading along knows what you guys are talking about.....
Its as easy as 1,2,3.
Jay Smith is pretty cool, by the way: his work is an absolute wrecking ball against Islam, and everyone should be glad for that. His group really brings out the evidence.
I have been forwarding to family some of Jay Smith's videos.
This one is an example:
That is actually a pretty exciting video, in a lot of ways, and not just in the sense of "Ha! Islam is dumb!"; Of course we already knew, especially of the terroristic sort, that Islam is just intuitively wrong to us. But, surely there are many "Muslims" that know that their history and scriptures are "commandeered" from Christianity; and the foundations that their culture is built on is a forgery. But I wonder how many of them are actually curious to know- there has to be some number of them that feel God's word piercing through that fabrication; and that there's something real underneath. Like how many of them are just poor victims of the gaslighting, just trying to find their way? It really does help make Arabs more a palatable people to the post 9/11 American mind.
Ok i am getting the strong impression that you made up this ""friend"".. That you have come here to preach against the trinity..
Hello, Adstar. This is decipher replying. Actually, my friend is a family member. His understanding of the trinity does bring some clarity to scripture. He believes that the Father is the One invisible God. He believes that the Son is the image of the invisible God and that the image is not the same as the original because they have their own thoughts and the Son is perfectly obedient to the Father. That is why the Son sits on the Father's right hand. The Father put all of creation under His Son's feet, which means that all authority is given to His Son in our reality, making His Son the Lord and God of all creation. From what I'm understanding, the trinity says that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit each have their own minds and make up one God. At the same time, the Son obeys the Father and the Holy Spirit does not speak his own words. Also, the Son is the temple of the Father, and we are the temple and body of the Son. When the Holy Spirit talks or reacts, it is the Father and Son that are talking and reacting. The simple fact that the Son obeys and prays to the Father should be enough for one to realize that the Father is the God and Father of the Son. My friend and family member just won't believe and trust the blind allegiance to what the trinity states.
I'll listen to my friend when one on one. During family gatherings, we do not discuss politics. I'll add the trinity to what is not to be discussed during family gatheings and on this thread. Everyone is free to believe what they want, but I'm disappointed that I was not able to disuade my friend. Thanks to all who have attempted to assist.
The Son represents man to the Father.
The Holy Spirit represented angels to the Father before man was created.
and.....
The Father makes Himself known to man THROUGH the Son.
And, before man was created?
The Father made Himself known to the angels THROUGH the Holy Spirit as the Angel of Jehovah.
To hear the Son is to hear the Father.
To hear the Holy Spirit would be to hear the Father.
The Son and Holy Spirit are both God.
The Son (the Soul of Jehovah) was never created.
For all things created were through the Son.
And, time is a creation of God!
The Son (Soul of Jehovah) was uniquely begotten by the Father before time existed.
Where there is no time? There can be no beginnings.
Therefore, the Son being uniquely begotten had no beginning.
grace and peace!
The Son (the Soul of Jehovah) was never created. Always was God.
The Incarnation was providing a human body for the eternal Soul of Jehovah.
The Soul of Jehovah is how God manifested Himself to Israel as the Lord God of Israel!
Here we read and see the Lord God of Israel having a Soul before the Incarnation took place!
The Incarnation was providing a human body for the eternal Soul of Jehovah.
The Soul of Jehovah is how God manifested Himself to Israel as the Lord God of Israel!
Here we read and see the Lord God of Israel having a Soul before the Incarnation took place!
'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new.
Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and my soul will not reject you.'
I will also walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people."
Leviticus 26:10-12
And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah,
so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel.
Judges 10:16
Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone
loving violence his soul certainly hates."
Psalm 11:5
That speaks of two different natures of the Lord God of Israel!
For God is "spirit."
God is not "soul!"
(John 4:23-24)
Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and my soul will not reject you.'
I will also walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people."
Leviticus 26:10-12
And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah,
so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel.
Judges 10:16
Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone
loving violence his soul certainly hates."
Psalm 11:5
That speaks of two different natures of the Lord God of Israel!
For God is "spirit."
God is not "soul!"
(John 4:23-24)
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the
Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
......
Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
......
That's a good post.
I think the orthodox-trinitarian would say that "Jehova-the son" and "Jehovah-the father" are distinct persons.... in this case; does "the father" have a soul distinct from the son? I wonder what an orthodox-trinitarian would say about this specifically.
I think classical-oneness would say that "the word" became "the son" in the incarnation; in which case "the son" IS god and IS eternal because he was "the word" before the incarnation... same with "uniquely begotten"- that refers to the incarnation as well... so whenever the oneness say that "the son" had a beginning- they mean in the flesh: not that Jesus isn't eternal, or isn't God.
Wording does not bother me, as long as both are landing on the same target.
The Father is one essence. He is spirit. (John 4:23-24)
The Son is a soul and the same essence as the Father in a unique union.
Why is the Son both Soul and God in union?
The Son is our guide to exploring and getting to know God, by translating God, who transcends our human comprehension, and 'translates' God' for us into "Human speak."
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God
and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. Jn1:18
When it says... has made him known? The Amplified Bible digs deeper into the Greek meaning, and renders.. "has made him known," as the following.
He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen;
He has interpreted Him, and He has made Him known.
Back in the 90s, I was privileged to find myself corresponding with Pastor Ralph G. Braun. He was one of a few pastors who studied and taught the NT from the Greek.
He is the one who showed me about John 1:18 there is a Greek word to show that the Son makes the Father known..
Is the same Greek word commanded of pastors. Commanded as to exegete the Word for us making it understandable
for us on our level of understanding!
John 1:18 - why God is a Trinity. Jesus is our translator and interpreter of God who would otherwise be incomprehensible.
Grace and peace ............
According to my friend, in John 1: 18 the apostle John writes that no man has seen God at any time. Doesn't it contradict this scripture if Jesus is God, since Jesus was visible before and after his ministry? According to the council of Nicea in 325 AD Jesus was fully man and fully God. Were they wrong?
According to my friend, Christ is the visible image of the invisible God because Christ is filled with the Father's Holy Spirit, which means that the Father is present in Christ's being. The Son is the temple of the Father, and that is how the Father operates in our reality and how the Son makes the Father known. The Son existed before he became Jesus. What does "the only begotten Son" mean?
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
Does " the first-born of all creation " mean that out of all creation, he was the first one?
Not knowing anything about scripture, and having sung Jesus loves me from summer bible school I cried out to God asking him how could he be fair? Many nights were spent in tears asking the same question over and over. God answered by overwhelming me with his goodness. Then, being confused about Jesus and wondering who I should be praying to, he answered, by saying we are the same. I heard no speech and saw nothing, but since that time I have had perfect peace.
That was 64 years ago, and nothing like that has happened since.
Pro 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
We cannot by our own cleverness know God. It is through the heart that God reveals himself.
That was 64 years ago, and nothing like that has happened since.
Pro 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
We cannot by our own cleverness know God. It is through the heart that God reveals himself.
Matt 11: 27 All things are delivered unto me by my Father, and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, except the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.
Man did not become God; God Became man. No man (flesh ) has seen God and lived. Seeing Jesus, who is God in the flesh, is not seeing God, who is a consuming Fire, not in flesh.
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among
you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.
How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? John 14:9
Know the problem with that verse? It requires that we shut up, no one cares about our personal opinion....
AND ACCEPT IT BY FAITH.
Do you think Abraham at age 99, and Sarah in her late 80's, understood it when the Lord told Abraham he would have a son with Sarah?
FAITH....
Tell your friend he lacks faith...
And, while you're at it?
Look in a mirror and tell yourself the same.
have a nice Day!
No one will be with excuse....
For whatever evil they choose for.
Right.....
So... it's to be?
Look at me! To see me is to see the Father?
NO!
Jesus being BOTH God and Soul in union, He alone produces a PERFECT interpretation of God for men to see and comprehend,
in a manner they men will be perfectly able to relate to!
I'd find a new friend....