The word of God is not a secret code that needs unlocked.
- Thread starter Brasspen
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I will rest with this that you said here.....
May I ask?
Who was the one of his main students whom you spoke of?
Was it Pastor Rick Knapp?
grace and peace ................
That's pretty cool that you knew R.B. Thieme too!
My former church hosted Col. Thieme many years. I respected his scholarship and him personally as a gifted teacher. We rented conference rooms and many churches attended from the tri state areas of Western Pa, MD, and WVa. I studied under one of his main students in my part of the country since I was a teenager.
My former church hosted Col. Thieme many years. I respected his scholarship and him personally as a gifted teacher. We rented conference rooms and many churches attended from the tri state areas of Western Pa, MD, and WVa. I studied under one of his main students in my part of the country since I was a teenager.
May I ask?
Who was the one of his main students whom you spoke of?
Was it Pastor Rick Knapp?
grace and peace ................
He had access to many texts. I am not sure why you do not know that.
He would also highly respect German scholarship.
I have no idea why you think that way concerning the KJV. I was given a King James by someone in my earliest days and kept it in my dresser drawer. During times of suffering, I would look through it and quickly lose hope. It made me feel that Christianity was an outdated, antiquated religious system. That it has no relevancy for today. I hated it.
I was brought up Jewish, so there was no sentimentality in my mind attached to having grown up in a church where the King James had been used. The King James to me was painful, like when I was studying Shakespeare and not knowing what was being expressed much too many times.
My first few years of listening to recorded classes, I had access to two Bible college libraries while listening to RB Thieme. One library was the Bible college that I had graduated from. Another was a few miles down the road, which was a school of another denomination.
I also began ordering reference books for my own personal library. Reference books had been for me an academic chore. When I began wishing to prove what I was hearing taught from RBT, the reference books came to life. I found out many times what he was teaching was right, but not taught in the average churches at all. He is not for the lazy Bible student.
The beauty of it became that his teachings feeds you with knowledge that causes you to discover you can think with truth and form your own ideas that he would not cover. That is when you can know its good teaching. Not only that, he taught the essentials so well that it allowed for me on a few occassions to disagree, and even believe he would have enjoyed hearing what I had to say. For he was always open to being shown he was wrong... BUT.... only if the one correcting him was objective in doing so.
Grace and peace .............
He would also highly respect German scholarship.
I have no idea why you think that way concerning the KJV. I was given a King James by someone in my earliest days and kept it in my dresser drawer. During times of suffering, I would look through it and quickly lose hope. It made me feel that Christianity was an outdated, antiquated religious system. That it has no relevancy for today. I hated it.
I was brought up Jewish, so there was no sentimentality in my mind attached to having grown up in a church where the King James had been used. The King James to me was painful, like when I was studying Shakespeare and not knowing what was being expressed much too many times.
My first few years of listening to recorded classes, I had access to two Bible college libraries while listening to RB Thieme. One library was the Bible college that I had graduated from. Another was a few miles down the road, which was a school of another denomination.
I also began ordering reference books for my own personal library. Reference books had been for me an academic chore. When I began wishing to prove what I was hearing taught from RBT, the reference books came to life. I found out many times what he was teaching was right, but not taught in the average churches at all. He is not for the lazy Bible student.
The beauty of it became that his teachings feeds you with knowledge that causes you to discover you can think with truth and form your own ideas that he would not cover. That is when you can know its good teaching. Not only that, he taught the essentials so well that it allowed for me on a few occassions to disagree, and even believe he would have enjoyed hearing what I had to say. For he was always open to being shown he was wrong... BUT.... only if the one correcting him was objective in doing so.
Grace and peace .............
-
1
- Show all
More than one ... no one translation is always conveying for me what I learned was intended.
I find myself reading some translations I was at one time not fond of, but realized with certain passages they are better than what I have been fond of.
Most of all... We all need a good teacher. Only a few are to be found.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Translations at times can cause more questions than answers when one tries to teach himself.
God chose a few to be good pastor-teachers.
Many will be like what 2 Tim 4:3 tells us many will be!
...
When you find a good one, it makes you feel sure there is a God watching out for you.
I would be lost if I did not find over the years the few good men who were competent to teach.
grace and peace ..........
I find myself reading some translations I was at one time not fond of, but realized with certain passages they are better than what I have been fond of.
Most of all... We all need a good teacher. Only a few are to be found.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Translations at times can cause more questions than answers when one tries to teach himself.
God chose a few to be good pastor-teachers.
Many will be like what 2 Tim 4:3 tells us many will be!
... When you find a good one, it makes you feel sure there is a God watching out for you.
I would be lost if I did not find over the years the few good men who were competent to teach.
grace and peace ..........
-
1
- Show all
[QUOTE="Genez, post: He had access to many texts. I am not sure why you do not know that.
He would also highly respect German scholarship.[/QUOTE]
I do know that. I just hope you will understand my reasons to answer your previous question. He respected German scholarship for a reason.
Those German teachers were the textual critics from which a new movement blossomed.
They held to different sources for their authority than the rest of non Roman Catholic Christianity. Col. Thieme also held to these Critical Texts.
The King James comes from the Traditional Text. These are different foundations for Bibles, which is why they differ so much.
For more on the subject, this is some history.
I have no idea why you think that way concerning the KJV. I was given a King James by someone in my earliest days and kept it in my dresser drawer. During times of suffering, I would look through it and quickly lose hope. It made me feel that Christianity was an outdated, antiquated religious system. That it has no relevancy for today. I hated it.
That is sometimes the case of unbelievers. I also left mine on the shelf that was given to me years earlier. However, when an evangelical Baptist cared enough to knock on my door to share the gospel with me, that's the one I pulled off my shelf and read the chapters of each verse provided. Even as a former Roman Catholic I had enough truth to know that God was not one to hide His truth on the subject from me. I was tired of preachers differing opinions. Who was I to trust, but God's view.
I asked Him to help me to know the truth on the subject presented to me earlier. He did and I decided to trust Jesus' all sufficient sacrifice and make Him the new Object of my faith based on that old Bible. Since then, my attitude towards it has only gotten better over the years. The Lord supernaturally uses it in my study and to lead others to His Son. When we did not know the Lord, we were spiritually dead and had absolutely no comfort from the Holy Spirit. That only comes after regeneration. John 16:11 and then guide you unto all truth. All truth has been diligently and meticulously translated from those handed down from the Apostles and scribes. God supernaturally uses them after faith in the Savior. Before that we were but natural men.
I Corinthians 2
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I was brought up Jewish, so there was no sentimentality in my mind attached to having grown up in a church where the King James had been used. The King James to me was painful, like when I was studying Shakespeare and not knowing what was being expressed much too many times.
My first few years of listening to recorded classes, I had access to two Bible college libraries while listening to RB Thieme. One library was the Bible college that I had graduated from. Another was a few miles down the road, which was a school of another denomination.
I also began ordering reference books for my own personal library. Reference books had been for me an academic chore. When I began wishing to prove what I was hearing taught from RBT, the reference books came to life. I found out many times what he was teaching was right, but not taught in the average churches at all. He is not for the lazy Bible student.
The beauty of it became that his teachings feeds you with knowledge that causes you to discover you can think with truth and form your own ideas that he would not cover. That is when you can know its good teaching. Not only that, he taught the essentials so well that it allowed for me on a few occassions to disagree, and even believe he would have enjoyed hearing what I had to say. For he was always open to being shown he was wrong... BUT.... only if the one correcting him was objective in doing so.
Grace and peace .............
He would also highly respect German scholarship.[/QUOTE]
I do know that. I just hope you will understand my reasons to answer your previous question. He respected German scholarship for a reason.
Those German teachers were the textual critics from which a new movement blossomed.
They held to different sources for their authority than the rest of non Roman Catholic Christianity. Col. Thieme also held to these Critical Texts.
The King James comes from the Traditional Text. These are different foundations for Bibles, which is why they differ so much.
For more on the subject, this is some history.
I have no idea why you think that way concerning the KJV. I was given a King James by someone in my earliest days and kept it in my dresser drawer. During times of suffering, I would look through it and quickly lose hope. It made me feel that Christianity was an outdated, antiquated religious system. That it has no relevancy for today. I hated it.
That is sometimes the case of unbelievers. I also left mine on the shelf that was given to me years earlier. However, when an evangelical Baptist cared enough to knock on my door to share the gospel with me, that's the one I pulled off my shelf and read the chapters of each verse provided. Even as a former Roman Catholic I had enough truth to know that God was not one to hide His truth on the subject from me. I was tired of preachers differing opinions. Who was I to trust, but God's view.
I asked Him to help me to know the truth on the subject presented to me earlier. He did and I decided to trust Jesus' all sufficient sacrifice and make Him the new Object of my faith based on that old Bible. Since then, my attitude towards it has only gotten better over the years. The Lord supernaturally uses it in my study and to lead others to His Son. When we did not know the Lord, we were spiritually dead and had absolutely no comfort from the Holy Spirit. That only comes after regeneration. John 16:11 and then guide you unto all truth. All truth has been diligently and meticulously translated from those handed down from the Apostles and scribes. God supernaturally uses them after faith in the Savior. Before that we were but natural men.
I Corinthians 2
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I was brought up Jewish, so there was no sentimentality in my mind attached to having grown up in a church where the King James had been used. The King James to me was painful, like when I was studying Shakespeare and not knowing what was being expressed much too many times.
My first few years of listening to recorded classes, I had access to two Bible college libraries while listening to RB Thieme. One library was the Bible college that I had graduated from. Another was a few miles down the road, which was a school of another denomination.
I also began ordering reference books for my own personal library. Reference books had been for me an academic chore. When I began wishing to prove what I was hearing taught from RBT, the reference books came to life. I found out many times what he was teaching was right, but not taught in the average churches at all. He is not for the lazy Bible student.
The beauty of it became that his teachings feeds you with knowledge that causes you to discover you can think with truth and form your own ideas that he would not cover. That is when you can know its good teaching. Not only that, he taught the essentials so well that it allowed for me on a few occassions to disagree, and even believe he would have enjoyed hearing what I had to say. For he was always open to being shown he was wrong... BUT.... only if the one correcting him was objective in doing so.
Grace and peace .............
No desire to make my point at this point.....
But, this much I will tell you. Ten years before I found the Bible college that I attended and graduated with honors from... I was given a dream in which I was inside what was to be the main chapel. I also saw faces that I recognized.
When I had the dream? The school did not exist.
Around the same period I had another dream and saw a gentleman in a suit who later turned out to be RB Thieme.
He even walked me passed a Protestant church in my town. Not something this Jewish boy was accustomed to doing.
But, this much I will tell you. Ten years before I found the Bible college that I attended and graduated with honors from... I was given a dream in which I was inside what was to be the main chapel. I also saw faces that I recognized.
When I had the dream? The school did not exist.
Around the same period I had another dream and saw a gentleman in a suit who later turned out to be RB Thieme.
He even walked me passed a Protestant church in my town. Not something this Jewish boy was accustomed to doing.
-
1
- Show all
Actually I understand it fine lol so it works for me . And actually the Old Testament is written partly in a poetic apocalyptic form of Hebrew like for instance Job or some of the psalms.
when mankind’s language evolves God caused it to be translated to those languages a Spanish Bible is going to communicate the message to those who speak Spanish , English to those who speak English , hebrew to those who speak Hebrew Greek to those who speak Greek and so on God isn’t limited nor did he limit his word to any specific language
“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilæans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judæa, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?”
Acts 2:4, 6-12 KJV
rather than magically making them all understand ancient Hebrew or only secretly saving those who inderrrood Hebrew he enabled it to be spoken in all of thier own native languages , so they could hear it and choose
the same is true of the written form the ot is a mix of ancient Hebrew and Aramaic even some samdscrit no one speaks those languages now , humans expanded and language with them as to God he sent his word to all creatures
thats why we have so many versions of it and it’s published in so many languages they all carry the same message people should choose one that they can understand and start learning what it says in the gospel
makes it harder when they argue over this word and th at word and which is legitimate and which is “of the devil “ or lacking none of them are if one studies then they’re going to send the same exact message to everyone
God has made it readily avalaible to all people English speakers Hebrew speakers Spanish speakers and so on professional renown translators ,translated most of the versions we have at different times given the language used where they were translating .
I’ve always been puzzled why people today who aren’t experts renowned for thier works in the field read a couple websites and assume all those translators got everything wrong it just creates doubt
god didn’t hide his word from everyone in any soecific tongue or translation or language he’s made it known and available to all who will hear and believe what it says
when mankind’s language evolves God caused it to be translated to those languages a Spanish Bible is going to communicate the message to those who speak Spanish , English to those who speak English , hebrew to those who speak Hebrew Greek to those who speak Greek and so on God isn’t limited nor did he limit his word to any specific language
“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilæans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judæa, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?”
Acts 2:4, 6-12 KJV
rather than magically making them all understand ancient Hebrew or only secretly saving those who inderrrood Hebrew he enabled it to be spoken in all of thier own native languages , so they could hear it and choose
the same is true of the written form the ot is a mix of ancient Hebrew and Aramaic even some samdscrit no one speaks those languages now , humans expanded and language with them as to God he sent his word to all creatures
thats why we have so many versions of it and it’s published in so many languages they all carry the same message people should choose one that they can understand and start learning what it says in the gospel
makes it harder when they argue over this word and th at word and which is legitimate and which is “of the devil “ or lacking none of them are if one studies then they’re going to send the same exact message to everyone
God has made it readily avalaible to all people English speakers Hebrew speakers Spanish speakers and so on professional renown translators ,translated most of the versions we have at different times given the language used where they were translating .
I’ve always been puzzled why people today who aren’t experts renowned for thier works in the field read a couple websites and assume all those translators got everything wrong it just creates doubt
god didn’t hide his word from everyone in any soecific tongue or translation or language he’s made it known and available to all who will hear and believe what it says
Possibly, because of the practice of oral tradition of passing on a message without anything written in front of them...
Got to keep in mind that teaching the Scriptures was to have some entertainment value, considering they had no radio or TV back then.
At times, the Torah would also use a play on words in the Hebrew that becomes totally lost in the words we see in translation.
I remember my pastor telling us how he laughed his head off when exegeting a passage that he could not find a way to convey it to us other than tell us technically what was written.... how "humor" was at times injected into the passage that we do not get to see.
grace and peace ............
Got to keep in mind that teaching the Scriptures was to have some entertainment value, considering they had no radio or TV back then.
At times, the Torah would also use a play on words in the Hebrew that becomes totally lost in the words we see in translation.
I remember my pastor telling us how he laughed his head off when exegeting a passage that he could not find a way to convey it to us other than tell us technically what was written.... how "humor" was at times injected into the passage that we do not get to see.
grace and peace ............
-
1
- Show all
Jesus told us not everyone is meant to understand his words.
Our divine father sent a message to the people of this world where Satan is and remains lord.
He is God's adversary. Doesn't it make sense and instruction as to how to navigate up and away from that Adversarial trap would be a secret open only to whom God chose?
After all, Jesus tells us who among all the world's people are to understand his teachings.
And that,as he said, is not every one of us.
When that was true about the good news he was born to deliver why would we think it not truth about the whole of the book God inspired cover to cover?
Our divine father sent a message to the people of this world where Satan is and remains lord.
He is God's adversary. Doesn't it make sense and instruction as to how to navigate up and away from that Adversarial trap would be a secret open only to whom God chose?
After all, Jesus tells us who among all the world's people are to understand his teachings.
And that,as he said, is not every one of us.
When that was true about the good news he was born to deliver why would we think it not truth about the whole of the book God inspired cover to cover?
Hebrew literature is poetic by its nature job for instance ….is a poem, the psalms are songs and poems ….All I said lol was I like the poetic language of the kjv
And that most of the available translations of the bible are going to impart the same message of faith in Christ
abut since you mentioned it job is a poem some of the psalms are as well as hymns
And that most of the available translations of the bible are going to impart the same message of faith in Christ
abut since you mentioned it job is a poem some of the psalms are as well as hymns