Gods will vs mans free will

[Cameron143]

How would you know that?

Because the people after them didn't know.

 

[JohnRH]

Because the people after them didn't know.

How do you know people after them didn't know?

 

[Cameron143]

How do you know people after them didn't know?

I've already answered that.
Grace and peace.

 

[Rufus]

What generation(s) never heard the gospel?

The generations that started from 70 A.D. (Mat 24:14). The gospel was indeed preached throughout the whole world known by the writers of the NT (i.e. the Roman Empire). But the Gospel never reached beyond the Roman Empire until after 70 A.D.

 

[Rufus]

In James 1, we're told, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: but every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."
And in 1 Cor 10, "There hath no temptation taken you, but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that which you are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that you may be able to bear it."

This is how I know that every act or thought is preordained of the Lord. So how does the Lord know the end from the beginning: Because time itself is/has been created and he dwells outside of time, observing the entire time line in the same instant. So that not only are a thousand years as a day and a day is as a thousand years, but also: 10,000 years are as a day and a day is as 10,000 years too. ect... ect...

So...an omniscient God by "observing the entire time line in the same instant" actually acquires knowledge in time and space?

 

[Iconoclast]

So are we all robots ? No choice

That means I can't choose to repent and I can't choose to love.

No..it means your will is bound by your nature. Why do you have to seek out the foolish robot discussion

 

[Iconoclast]

Your understanding of free will doesn't exist because everything is bound to it's own nature but is that what is meant by free will?

Free does not mean to be without limitations. If such were the case, freedom couldn't truly exist for the universe would be a mishmash of random chaos.

God is not free to lie, change or sin, because His Holy nature will not allow it.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes.

No..it is not...The words "free will are found 17x in the OT. They are speaking of offerings that are not commanded by the law.
It has nothing to do with mans will

 

[glf]

So...an omniscient God by "observing the entire time line in the same instant" actually acquires knowledge in time and space?

I wound't say acquire; as I suspect, that it's more of a knowing as all of time is right now from the Lord's perspective.
Scripture tells us in Rev 5, "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" I think that this shows us that the Lord doesn't even allow a nation to form were no one turns to the Lord.

As I was reading back to my original post for this topic, I noticed a huge mistake in what I said and believe! Yiikes!!!
So please, let me correct myself: This is how I know that every act or thought of man is "NOT" preordained by the Lord.

 

[PaulThomson]

No..it is not...The words "free will are found 17x in the OT. They are speaking of offerings that are not commanded by the law.
It has nothing to do with mans will

That's a pretty stupid assertion, Iconoclast. If they are not commanded by the law, and yet a person wants/wills to offer them to God, they are not being forced to want/will to offer them. That's why they are called free will offerings. It has everything to to do with man's will/desires. The only reason the offerings are being offered is because the person freely wants/wills to offer them.

 

[JohnRH]

The gospel was indeed preached throughout the whole world known by the writers of the NT (i.e. the Roman Empire).

The Holy Spirit didn't know about the world beyond the Roman Empire?
... the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Col 1:23 (KJV)

But the Gospel never reached beyond the Roman Empire until after 70 A.D.

Where does the Bible say that?

 

[sawdust]

God is not free to lie, change or sin, because His Holy nature will not allow it.

Yes because freedom doesn't mean to be without restraint, that would be chaos. Freedom can only exist within authority, including God's freedom. He is His own authority as He is our authority and indeed the authority in all creation.

 

[JohnRH]

No..it is not...The words "free will are found 17x in the OT. They are speaking of offerings that are not commanded by the law.
It has nothing to do with mans will

I doubt it has anything to do with the animal's will.

The man's free will is even involved with the offering commanded by the law: he can freely to choose to obey that command or disobey it and reap the consequence.

 

[Rufus]

No..it means your will is bound by your nature. Why do you have to seek out the foolish robot discussion

Just as God is bound by His...I might add.

 

[Rufus]

The Holy Spirit didn't know about the world beyond the Roman Empire?
... the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Col 1:23 (KJV)


Where does the Bible say that?

Church history! Church history tells us how the gospel was spread throughout the world after 70 A.D.

The Holy Spirit knew about the world beyond the Roman Empire, but did man know? Did the Holy Spirit transport disciples across the globe to preach the gospel? Or did the gospel spread naturally as kingdom of God grew here on earth and man's knowledge of the known world also expanded.

 

[Rufus]

That's a pretty stupid assertion, Iconoclast. If they are not commanded by the law, and yet a person wants/wills to offer them to God, they are not being forced to want/will to offer them. That's why they are called free will offerings. It has everything to to do with man's will/desires. The only reason the offerings are being offered is because the person freely wants/wills to offer them.

No...the only reason they're called "free will" offerings is because God desired that his covenant people make such offerings voluntarily from their heart and not because they're merely following some rigid religious ritual. The free will offerings no more presume that dead men have the spiritual ability to obey than any other law under the OC.

 

[JohnRH]

Church history! Church history tells us how the gospel was spread throughout the world after 70 A.D.

How could "church" historians tell how the gospel spread throughout the world when they didn't even know the extent of the world?

The Holy Spirit knew about the world beyond the Roman Empire, but did man know?

Of course man knew. Man LIVED beyond the Roman Empire.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Free will does not exist. Man does not have free will, God does not have free will.
God is not free to Lie, God is not free to change, God does not need to repent.
Men make choices, but their self=will is bound, not free.

Interesting comment, i don't personally agree with some of it but know my theory isn't more worthy. Think it's possible Adam and Eve had free will because they were perfect, hence why they could choose to sin and that God could lie/change if he chose to. Think he's the Creator of those rules because they're important to him.

Don't think we have free will but do still have moral agency which makes us answerable for our actions. Think this article is worth a read, has much in common with my own view:

https://www.monergism.com/inability-free-will-vs-free-agency

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Here‘s another good example. God deciding not to do something that he said he would do. Repentance, change of direction.

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

I'm afraid that the KJV occasionally leads us astray; the correct translation is "relent," meaning a "change." God changes from his justice to his mercy in response to human repentance, but he always has both qualities.

 

[Iconoclast]

That's a pretty stupid assertion, Iconoclast. If they are not commanded by the law, and yet a person wants/wills to offer them to God, they are not being forced to want/will to offer them. That's why they are called free will offerings. It has everything to to do with man's will/desires. The only reason the offerings are being offered is because the person freely wants/wills to offer them.

sorry you do not understand.there was no command for these offerings....they were voluntary