The Gospels and the Mystery

[Musicmaster]

When we look at the Gospel as preached by the twelve, and the Gospel given to Paul to be preached to Gentiles and Jews alike, it becomes quite clear, apart from over-spiritualizing everything one reads, that the two messages are not one and the same:

The Kingdom Gospel preached by Christ and the twelve:

Proclaimed repentance and water baptism for salvation (Acts 2:38)
Proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom ([URL='Matthew 4:17, Acts 3.19)
Saved and commissioned within Israel’s borders (Matthew 16:13, 16-17)
Taught in Christ’s earthly ministry
Ministered to Jews only (Matthew 10:5, Galatians 2:7-9)

The Gospel of Grace received and taught by Paul:

Proclaimed “believe” alone for salvation (Romans 4:5-6, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
Proclaimed the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24)
Saved and commissioned outside Israel’s borders (Acts 9:3)
Was taught in Christ’s heavenly ministry (Galatians 1:1, 11-12)
Ministered primarily to Gentiles because of Jewish rejection (Romans 11:13, Galatians 2:7-9)

Paul was not taught by the twelve:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

So, Paul was instructed by Christ Jesus, not other men in the mystery, which is the body of Christ, that was hidden in God, not the scriptures or the prophets:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Ephesians 3:2-7
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Not given to the twelve, but only to Paul, who then preached it to all others from that point onward. Paul already knew that the eleven were preaching, but THAT is the reason he persecuted them, and killed them. If Paul was only preaching what the others had already been preaching, then all the scriptures stating otherwise make no sense.

1 Corinthians 2:7-9
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

See that? Not even Satan and his demons knew of the Gospel of Grace that would be extended to the Gentiles until after it was revealed to, and preached by Paul. They would not have pushed for the crucifixion of Christ had they known that the kingdom of the Gentiles would be greatly diminished from their clutches through Paul's Gospel. They knew of the Kingdom Gospel, but they did NOT know of the Gospel of Grace and its impact until after it was too late.

Thoughts?

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

This was not always the case. For proof of this:

Matthew 15:22-28
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Gentiles were dogs because:

Ephesians 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

So, the idea that it's only one and the same Gospel throughout, that ignores what anyone can read in scripture, and is shown here and in the OP.

MM

 

[Derobo]

I don't have much to say about this, because i would be here for hours and hours.

but i will answer this small thing you said.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

*This was not always the case. For proof of this*



In the old testament there are proof that God is rich unto all that call upon him jew or gentile here are some
examples:

• Jethro was Moses' father-in-law (Exodus 18.1).
• Ruth. ( Ruth 1:16-18)
• Rahab a pagan Gentile woman had faith. She believed God.
• Naaman the Syrian General. ( 2 Kings 5:15 & 17)
• Darius / Cyrus.
• Nebuchadnezzar.
• Jonah and the Ninevites.
• The Roman Centurion.

Further more it is biblical that God loves and wants the gentiles to repent, God used the Jews to be a light unto the gentiles.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Who is this root out of Jesse? obviously Jesus Christ. To him shall the Gentiles seek and his rest shall be glorious.


Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Isaiah 66:12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees

God revealed to Peter in a vision that the gospel should be preached to the Gentiles Peter taught the gospel to Cornelius and his house hold, later Apostle Paul went to the pagan nations, they fulfilled old testament prophesies by doing this.

there is only One Gospel, and it came first to the Jews then to the gentiles. that's it.

God bless you my friend.

 

[Musicmaster]

I don't have much to say about this, because i would be here for hours and hours.

but i will answer this small thing you said.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

*This was not always the case. For proof of this*



In the old testament there are proof that God is rich unto all that call upon him jew or gentile here are some
examples:

• Jethro was Moses' father-in-law (Exodus 18.1).
• Ruth. ( Ruth 1:16-18)
• Rahab a pagan Gentile woman had faith. She believed God.
• Naaman the Syrian General. ( 2 Kings 5:15 & 17)
• Darius / Cyrus.
• Nebuchadnezzar.
• Jonah and the Ninevites.
• The Roman Centurion.

Further more it is biblical that God loves and wants the gentiles to repent, God used the Jews to be a light unto the gentiles.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Who is this root out of Jesse? obviously Jesus Christ. To him shall the Gentiles seek and his rest shall be glorious.


Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Isaiah 66:12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees

God revealed to Peter in a vision that the gospel should be preached to the Gentiles Peter taught the gospel to Cornelius and his house hold, later Apostle Paul went to the pagan nations, they fulfilled old testament prophesies by doing this.

there is only One Gospel, and it came first to the Jews then to the gentiles. that's it.

God bless you my friend.

Sorry, but scripture simply refutes some of what you said, as was quoted in the first two posts of this thread, especially this:

Ephesians 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

We see, then that wither Paul was a liar, or he told the truth.

You appear to believe Paul was a liar, which would then indeed be sad, because apart from Israel, and becoming a Jew, Gentiles had no other avenue to salvation.

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Many don't understand the language of that verse, and assume all manner of false nonsense from it.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Speaking generally for clarification, both Jews and Gentiles, today, are ALL saved ONLY by way of the Gospel that Paul preached, not that of Peter and the other apostles who were sent ONLY to the Jews back then. Paul's Gospel laid down no requirements for water baptism nor repentance for salvation, because that nullifies grace. It blows grace out the water to those who think that they can add to their salvation ANY works.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

That is so simple, and yet some just don't get it, thinking that it's still a good thing to go back to works as a supplement or perfection of their faith. That simply is not the case for us today.

MM

 

[Derobo]

@Musicmaster

My friend, you should read it one more time and this time try a bit slower.

I agree with Paul, and Paul agrees with me.

The Gospel was first for the jews then to the gentiles because God choose them to be the proclaimers of his Word, but in the old testament there are numerous examples of gentiles calling to God and repenting, while God hears them and loves them!

and yes salvation is of the Jews, it comes from God through the jews, why ? because he choose them to be the light for the Gentiles, it doesn't say Salvation is for the jews. its says of THE JEWS.

it was always Gods plan to save the gentiles too, and the verses i posted proves this, while Paul and Peter prove that they fulfilled it.

The old testament and New testament go perfectly hand in hand.

 

[Derobo]

Speaking generally for clarification, both Jews and Gentiles, today, are ALL saved ONLY by way of the Gospel that Paul preached, not that of Peter and the other apostles who were sent ONLY to the Jews back then. Paul's Gospel laid down no requirements for water baptism nor repentance for salvation, because that nullifies grace. It blows grace out the water to those who think that they can add to their salvation ANY works.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

That is so simple, and yet some just don't get it, thinking that it's still a good thing to go back to works as a supplement or perfection of their faith. That simply is not the case for us today.

MM

James said faith without works are dead, some who read this, may think that James and Paul doesn't agree with each other, but that is far from the truth, they agree with each other yet they say two different things.

We are indeed saved by faith and Gods grace and not by works, but what James is saying is that after you are saved you will have Good works as evidence for your faith, just like Jesus said you would know them by the fruits, and the fruits of the Holy Spirit will show in a save d believer.

This is the same faith that saved Abraham, he believed and after this he acted upon his faith.

 

[Derobo]

Also lastly, you don't need to understand greek, nor hebrew to understand the Bible, our God made sure all nations and tongues would be able to understand it.

 

[Musicmaster]

James said faith without works are dead, some who read this, may think that James and Paul doesn't agree with each other, but that is far from the truth, they agree with each other yet they say two different things.

We are indeed saved by faith and Gods grace and not by works, but what James is saying is that after you are saved you will have Good works as evidence for your faith, just like Jesus said you would know them by the fruits, and the fruits of the Holy Spirit will show in a save d believer.

This is the same faith that saved Abraham, he believed and after this he acted upon his faith.

I don't know what verseion of the Bible you read from, but we can do a side by side comparison.

James, who wrote his epistle to the Jews scattered abroad, not the Gentiles:

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Paul, on the other hand, wrote this:

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Both true to those to whom they were written. Also of note is that James wrote his epistle to the Jews before Paul had received his revelation of the mystery directly from Christ Jesus.

So, they are indeed both speaking truth, but to those to whom they were speaking WHEN they spoke those thigs. Rightly dividing the word of truth shows to us that is is separating truth from truth because not everything written to all others apply to all others. Obedience to the Mosaic Law was true and therefore required for those to whom it was written, not to us today.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Also lastly, you don't need to understand greek, nor hebrew to understand the Bible, our God made sure all nations and tongues would be able to understand it.

That sounds like anti-intellectualism. If all the Bible agreed with one another, then we would have no need to dig into the Hebrew and Greek.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

@Musicmaster

My friend, you should read it one more time and this time try a bit slower.

I agree with Paul, and Paul agrees with me.

The Gospel was first for the jews then to the gentiles because God choose them to be the proclaimers of his Word, but in the old testament there are numerous examples of gentiles calling to God and repenting, while God hears them and loves them!

and yes salvation is of the Jews, it comes from God through the jews, why ? because he choose them to be the light for the Gentiles, it doesn't say Salvation is for the jews. its says of THE JEWS.

it was always Gods plan to save the gentiles too, and the verses i posted proves this, while Paul and Peter prove that they fulfilled it.

The old testament and New testament go perfectly hand in hand.

If you're one who preaches that other gospel, which was true for those to whom it was written, and try to apply to us today, and that is what you preach to others, then Paul had this to say about that:

Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

This should serve as a good warning to all, because Paul did not preach the necessity for repentance and water baptism, as was the message of Peter, John and James, and yet there are those who claim it's all the same throughout. That's some ganderous stuff to spew out there with such disregard for the warning.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

I will absolutely agree that God had revealed Gentiles would be blessed by the Jews (Isaiah 42:1, 6, 49:6, 60:3, Zechariah 8:23, Luke 2:32. This was based on the ideal plan that the Jews would accept Messiah. The question can then be asked...how could Gentiles continue to receive blessing if and when Israel rejected the One and only Messiah? That simply could not be. All blessing was based in the ideal for the acceptance of Messiah. God had not yet revealed any other plan to anyone on the face of this planet, not even the prophets. God, however, always has a plan, even though he may keep it secret (Deuteronomy 29:29). God knew from before the beginning of time that Israel would reject Messiah, and have a contingency plan for it that many today refuse to accept.

The Lord directly revealed that plan ONLY to Paul, with him being the apostle to the Gentiles (Acts 9:15-16, Romans 11:13, Ephesians 3:1, 1 Timothy 2:7). No Biblical record exists whereby Peter and the eleven ever had been commissioned to a ministry to the Gentiles. The Twelve made an agreement with Paul to confine their ministry to Jews while Paul would go to Gentiles (Galatians 2:7-9. Though Paul was THE apostle to the Gentiles, he started out witnessing to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah. The book of Acts whos to us the record of Paul's first approach to the Jews, and then his about-face in going to the Gentiles after the Jews rejected his message of Jesus as the Messiah (Acts 13:46, 18:5-6, 28:24-28 cf. Romans 1:16-17, Acts 9:15).

So, it remains a mystery to me that anyone could claim that the Gospel is the same throughout, other than it always centered upon Christ Jesus as the only means through which there was ever salvation. The CONTENT of the Kingdom Gospel is NOT the same as the CONTENT of the Gospel of Grace revealed to Paul. The difference between repentance and water baptism as the means for salvation, and faith alone in the crucifixion, burial and resurrection of Christ Jesus, that content is NOT the same.

Unless one is willing to declare that Paul failed to mention the requirement for repentance and water baptism for salvation, which THEN brought about the filling of Holy Spirit, which is the sin of omission, willful blindness to the differences in content, as stated, remains a mystery to me. The only comparison is the finished work in the Blood of Christ Jesus. Yes. Therein is the similarity. Even the Law pointed to Christ, as did the faith of Abraham without the Mosaic Law, and Noah's faith without the Mosaic Law and many others down through the ages to that time.

So, my focus, then, is upon the CONTENT of the different Gospels, namely the Kingdom Gospel and the Gospel of Grace. The content is NOT the same outside of the One Christ Jesus.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Paul preached the gospel of the grace of God throughout his ministry (Acts 20:24).

Paul made it so very clear that the gospel he preached was his gospel (Romans 2:16, 16:25, 2 Timothy 2:8, Galatians 1:11-12, 2:2), meaning that the eleven did not preach the same message. The scriptures make it abundantly clear they did not at least until they learned it from Paul (Acts 15:1, 5, 6-11).

Paul declared his gospel was retained a secret knowledge in God alone through the ages, revealed to no other man. Those who are hardliners in the idea that this can only be true if confirmed within the OT, they will search in vain for it because it's simply not there. Some groups, however, like Hebrew Roots followers, demand that this cannot be true since it is not in the Law or the prophets. This they do at the exclusion of Paul's revelation from Christ that is was...what?...HIDDEN in God from the creation of the world. The Hebrew Roots gospel is an utterly false one, and therefore renders its teachers accursed if we dare take Paul's word seriously.

Paul also revealed through his epistles that, by revelation, he went to Jerusalem to consult with the eleven about the gospel he preached (Galatians 2:2) to the Gentiles and the results. He stated in very precise terminology that it was a “secret” until Christ Himself revealed it to Paul. It was a secret until Paul revealed it to the eleven.

Looking back at the gospel John the Baptist, Jesus, and the twelve proclaimed, we see that they preached the “gospel of the kingdom” (Matthew 4:23, 9:35, Mark 1:14-15). That gospel message contained many references to God’s earthly kingdom, which the prophets had proclaimed numerous times throughout the Old Testament, and that it was at hand...soon to come in the generational lifespans of those right there in their midst.

The only way that kingdom would become a reality was for there to be repentance and baptism throughout the nation of Israel. After the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ, the eleven continued preaching the gospel of the kingdom (Acts 2:38, 3:19-21). This was a different gospel by way of content than the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24) that Paul preached after Israel rejected Christ for the last time through Stephen's message to the religious and national leadership of Israel, and the Lord moved upon Paul to bring him to faith.

The rest is well documented as well.

MM

 

[Pilgrimshope]

@Musicmaster

My friend, you should read it one more time and this time try a bit slower.

I agree with Paul, and Paul agrees with me.

The Gospel was first for the jews then to the gentiles because God choose them to be the proclaimers of his Word, but in the old testament there are numerous examples of gentiles calling to God and repenting, while God hears them and loves them!

and yes salvation is of the Jews, it comes from God through the jews, why ? because he choose them to be the light for the Gentiles, it doesn't say Salvation is for the jews. its says of THE JEWS.

it was always Gods plan to save the gentiles too, and the verses i posted proves this, while Paul and Peter prove that they fulfilled it.

The old testament and New testament go perfectly hand in hand.

“The Gospel was first for the jews then to the gentiles because God choose them to be the proclaimers of his Word,

but in the old testament there are numerous examples of gentiles calling to God and repenting, while God hears them and loves them!”

ye if we look back to the beginning it was God who created all of mankind before there were Jews or gentiles later after the world was condemned , he divided the nations and the plan of redemption began to be given to Abraham , Noah’s descendant through Shem who received the blessing of Noah .
Abraham who was being promised about his seed Jesus Christ who would bless all the nations and peoples again as in the beginning before the division of the nations and choosing of Israel and Jerusalem in tbe ot

after Jerusalems destruction the same gospel of the same kingdom was sent to all people of earth and everyone Jew or gentile who believes the true gospel of the kingdom will receive it

 

[Pilgrimshope]

James said faith without works are dead, some who read this, may think that James and Paul doesn't agree with each other, but that is far from the truth, they agree with each other yet they say two different things.

We are indeed saved by faith and Gods grace and not by works, but what James is saying is that after you are saved you will have Good works as evidence for your faith, just like Jesus said you would know them by the fruits, and the fruits of the Holy Spirit will show in a save d believer.

This is the same faith that saved Abraham, he believed and after this he acted upon his faith.

Exactly what James taught and Paul also wanted and taught of be he same things regarding believers works “ you weren’t saved by works …but

“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jew or gentile doesn’t matter it’s going to be the exact same judgement for all

“If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; Doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? And he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? And shall not he render to every man according to his works?”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭24:12‬ ‭

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-13, 15‬ ‭

“Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: For thou renderest to every man according to his work.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭62:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭17:10‬ ‭

It’s hard to hear after hearing averse and someone explain grace but it’s true

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we weren’t saved by works clearly and this is easy for all to agree

But it also says thoroughly and clearly it tells those who are willing to hear that we’re going to be judged by our works looking forward to the end and we need to do good and not evil.

 

[decipher]

If you're one who preaches that other gospel, which was true for those to whom it was written, and try to apply to us today, and that is what you preach to others, then Paul had this to say about that:

Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

This should serve as a good warning to all, because Paul did not preach the necessity for repentance and water baptism, as was the message of Peter, John and James, and yet there are those who claim it's all the same throughout. That's some ganderous stuff to spew out there with such disregard for the warning.

MM

It was straight from Jesus' mouth that he was sent to call sinners to repentance. That means both Jews and Gentiles. Repentance for sins committed is what turns a sinner to God for forgiveness. When the gospel of Jesus' death for the forgiveness of sins committed is preached to him and he believes, his sins are erased. He is then perfected by the Holy Spirit who fills him with the degree of love necessary to make the motivation for every thought and action love for God first and all others as we love ourselves second. That is what happens when we are born again and how we follow the Spirit of the Law upon which the Letter of the Law is based.

 

[Musicmaster]

It was straight from Jesus' mouth that he was sent to call sinners to repentance. That means both Jews and Gentiles. Repentance for sins committed is what turns a sinner to God for forgiveness. When the gospel of Jesus' death for the forgiveness of sins committed is preached to him and he believes, his sins are erased. He is then perfected by the Holy Spirit who fills him with the degree of love necessary to make the motivation for every thought and action love for God first and all others as we love ourselves second. That is what happens when we are born again and how we follow the Spirit of the Law upon which the Letter of the Law is based.

Yes, but trying to help false teachers to learn what it is they should be preaching, that's almost a lost cause for the masses who refuse to rightly divide the word of truth. They continue to believe that they must add to grace their works, which is impossible. It is a false gospel in this dispensation of grace. It's impossible to understand what part of "unmerited favor" they are not understanding.

True salvation will always bring to life good works flowing from us, so the real question then crops up, "If one feels as though he must do good works to perfect his faith, then is he really saved at all?"

MM

 

[decipher]

Yes, but trying to help false teachers to learn what it is they should be preaching, that's almost a lost cause for the masses who refuse to rightly divide the word of truth. They continue to believe that they must add to grace their works, which is impossible. It is a false gospel in this dispensation of grace. It's impossible to understand what part of "unmerited favor" they are not understanding.

True salvation will always bring to life good works flowing from us, so the real question then crops up, "If one feels as though he must do good works to perfect his faith, then is he really saved at all?"

MM

I agree with you. I would like to point out 1 Cor 13 which simply states that it doesn't matter what good works you do if you don't do it with love in your heart.

 

[Derobo]

Exactly what James taught and Paul also wanted and taught of be he same things regarding believers works “ you weren’t saved by works …but

“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jew or gentile doesn’t matter it’s going to be the exact same judgement for all

“If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; Doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? And he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? And shall not he render to every man according to his works?”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭24:12‬ ‭

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-13, 15‬ ‭

“Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: For thou renderest to every man according to his work.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭62:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭17:10‬ ‭

It’s hard to hear after hearing averse and someone explain grace but it’s true

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we weren’t saved by works clearly and this is easy for all to agree

But it also says thoroughly and clearly it tells those who are willing to hear that we’re going to be judged by our works looking forward to the end and we need to do good and not evil.

YOU SAID IT PERFECTLY MY BROTHER IN CHRIST JESUS!! THANK YOU !!
Our God is a loving God and it shows throughout the whole Bible, how merciful and loving he is, giving people sometimes hundreds of years to repent.
And as you said he is no respecter of persons, anyone who call upon his name with a humble heart will be heard and he will save you, jew or gentile.
the joy in knowing this cannot be replicated!

 

[John146]

When we look at the Gospel as preached by the twelve, and the Gospel given to Paul to be preached to Gentiles and Jews alike, it becomes quite clear, apart from over-spiritualizing everything one reads, that the two messages are not one and the same:

The Kingdom Gospel preached by Christ and the twelve:

Proclaimed repentance and water baptism for salvation (Acts 2:38)
Proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom ([URL='Matthew 4:17, Acts 3.19)
Saved and commissioned within Israel’s borders (Matthew 16:13, 16-17)
Taught in Christ’s earthly ministry
Ministered to Jews only (Matthew 10:5, Galatians 2:7-9)

The Gospel of Grace received and taught by Paul:

Proclaimed “believe” alone for salvation (Romans 4:5-6, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
Proclaimed the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24)
Saved and commissioned outside Israel’s borders (Acts 9:3)
Was taught in Christ’s heavenly ministry (Galatians 1:1, 11-12)
Ministered primarily to Gentiles because of Jewish rejection (Romans 11:13, Galatians 2:7-9)

Paul was not taught by the twelve:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

So, Paul was instructed by Christ Jesus, not other men in the mystery, which is the body of Christ, that was hidden in God, not the scriptures or the prophets:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Ephesians 3:2-7
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Not given to the twelve, but only to Paul, who then preached it to all others from that point onward. Paul already knew that the eleven were preaching, but THAT is the reason he persecuted them, and killed them. If Paul was only preaching what the others had already been preaching, then all the scriptures stating otherwise make no sense.

1 Corinthians 2:7-9
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

See that? Not even Satan and his demons knew of the Gospel of Grace that would be extended to the Gentiles until after it was revealed to, and preached by Paul. They would not have pushed for the crucifixion of Christ had they known that the kingdom of the Gentiles would be greatly diminished from their clutches through Paul's Gospel. They knew of the Kingdom Gospel, but they did NOT know of the Gospel of Grace and its impact until after it was too late.

Thoughts?

MM

Look out, you're going to get hammered for this. Some do not understand right division.