Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture
- Thread starter Omegatime
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The "REST" of the dead spoken on IN THAT CONTEXT (19:21 "REMNANT / REST were SLAIN"--the UNSAVED--and v.18c "ALL"--the UNSAVED! [existing on the earth at that point in the chronology])
"THIS is the resurrection the first [ADJ]" (v.5b)... is not saying, "this [what you see in v.4b] is the first TIME saints will be resurrected"... the "2W' will have been resurrected [which is defined biblically as "TO STAND AGAIN" after having physically/bodily DIED] (and will ascend up to heaven) at the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe"--a time-slot PRIOR TO this Rev19/20 scene.
So this verse (5b) ISN'T saying "first [adj] IN TIME"... but "first [adj] IN QUALITY" (i.e. resurrection OF LIFE... as opposed to resurrection OF DAMNATION / JUDGMENT which pertains to the UNSAVED / UNBELIEVERS [GWTj deals with that]).
And Rev20:6 is not saying, "THESE last-3.5-yr martyrs" are the ONLY ONES to be resurrected (at / to this point)... that's your *idea* being INJECTED INTO this verse (v.6).
"THIS is the resurrection the first [ADJ]" (v.5b)... is not saying, "this [what you see in v.4b] is the first TIME saints will be resurrected"... the "2W' will have been resurrected [which is defined biblically as "TO STAND AGAIN" after having physically/bodily DIED] (and will ascend up to heaven) at the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe"--a time-slot PRIOR TO this Rev19/20 scene.
So this verse (5b) ISN'T saying "first [adj] IN TIME"... but "first [adj] IN QUALITY" (i.e. resurrection OF LIFE... as opposed to resurrection OF DAMNATION / JUDGMENT which pertains to the UNSAVED / UNBELIEVERS [GWTj deals with that]).
And Rev20:6 is not saying, "THESE last-3.5-yr martyrs" are the ONLY ONES to be resurrected (at / to this point)... that's your *idea* being INJECTED INTO this verse (v.6).
I believe there is scripture that supports a pretrib Rapture. However, by what is happening in the world right now is very much the last days. And anyone who doesn't sense the coming of the Lord You must be dead inside. America is under judgment Ireal's at war, and many are talking about P.Diddy and do not even notice the Major investors and CEO's have just folded under.
I was said not only by me and many other there will be a major hit on America before the Nov election. If Christians are not praying many will also fold under because they are not prepared. It s coming.
I was said not only by me and many other there will be a major hit on America before the Nov election. If Christians are not praying many will also fold under because they are not prepared. It s coming.
The First and Second Resurrection is a matter of quality, not quantity. There are only two resurrections, one to life and one to condemnation.
John 5:29
and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
The Tribulation martyrs are raised at the Second Coming which, begins the Millennium. All believers belong to the First Resurrection, it is simply a matter of timing, for each are raised according to their class.
1 Corinthians 15:23
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
The word translated "order" is not just about lining up in the sense of time but also of rank and company.
John 5:29
and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
The Tribulation martyrs are raised at the Second Coming which, begins the Millennium. All believers belong to the First Resurrection, it is simply a matter of timing, for each are raised according to their class.
1 Corinthians 15:23
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
The word translated "order" is not just about lining up in the sense of time but also of rank and company.
He's suggesting the [faulty] idea of a "general resurrection" (except for the 3.5-yr [second half of Trib] beheaded martyrs ALONE); at which time "judgment OF ALL" takes place at the GWTj.
Supposedly that "believers"/saints (of all times--EXCEPT the final 3.5 yrs) WILL BE SUSCEPTIBLE TO "the second death / lake of fire" based on their works...
... and prolly after THAT, they get to spend eternity climbing up and down some ladder of "payment" for their sins... or faults... and eventually be "released" (the "length of time" depending on the level of their "works"). Not the first time I've heard such an explanation.
Supposedly that "believers"/saints (of all times--EXCEPT the final 3.5 yrs) WILL BE SUSCEPTIBLE TO "the second death / lake of fire" based on their works...
... and prolly after THAT, they get to spend eternity climbing up and down some ladder of "payment" for their sins... or faults... and eventually be "released" (the "length of time" depending on the level of their "works"). Not the first time I've heard such an explanation.
Then who are the nations in Rev.19 that Jesus is pouring out His indignation on? The following is just prior to the beginning of the Millennium. Do you think Jesus is doing all this (Rev.19:11-21) from heaven?
Revelation 19:19
And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against
I do not deny the martyred trib saints will be raised at the Second Coming as part of the First Resurrection.
Revelation 19:19
And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against
I do not deny the martyred trib saints will be raised at the Second Coming as part of the First Resurrection.
It's warming up to it for sure!
It's got to get it's machinery fine-tuned and ready to roll.
After all?
The Antichrist system is only going to have seven years to prove itself.
If the Rapture took place in the middle of a time of great morality and establishment freedom?
Satan could always protest he did not have enough time to recondition men's thinking, needed to prove he has the better system to run the world.
So, God being the gentleman he is.. Has granted Satan needed time before the Rapture, to get his evil machine well organized,
oiled up, and ready to go!
Tribulation is being held back on a leash of God until the Rapture removes the restrainer from the earth.
Likewise, Satan needed to ask permission for a time when he will attempt to prove his ways superior to God's ways
in how he can run the lives of men on earth!
That permission when granted at the time of the Great Tribulation!
It's got to get it's machinery fine-tuned and ready to roll.
After all?
The Antichrist system is only going to have seven years to prove itself.
If the Rapture took place in the middle of a time of great morality and establishment freedom?
Satan could always protest he did not have enough time to recondition men's thinking, needed to prove he has the better system to run the world.
So, God being the gentleman he is.. Has granted Satan needed time before the Rapture, to get his evil machine well organized,
oiled up, and ready to go!
Tribulation is being held back on a leash of God until the Rapture removes the restrainer from the earth.
2 Thessalonians 2:5-7
Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?
Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?
And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.
For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now restrains will
continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. (the Rapture)
Remember? Satan had to ask God permission to go after Job.Likewise, Satan needed to ask permission for a time when he will attempt to prove his ways superior to God's ways
in how he can run the lives of men on earth!
That permission when granted at the time of the Great Tribulation!
He's suggesting the [faulty] idea of a "general resurrection" (except for the 3.5-yr [second half of Trib] beheaded martyrs ALONE); at which time "judgment OF ALL" takes place at the GWTj.
Supposedly that "believers"/saints (of all times--EXCEPT the final 3.5 yrs) WILL BE SUSCEPTIBLE TO "the second death / lake of fire" based on their works...
... and prolly after THAT, they get to spend eternity climbing up and down some ladder of "payment" for their sins... or faults... and eventually be "released" (the "length of time" depending on the level of their "works"). Not the first time I've heard such an explanation.
Supposedly that "believers"/saints (of all times--EXCEPT the final 3.5 yrs) WILL BE SUSCEPTIBLE TO "the second death / lake of fire" based on their works...
... and prolly after THAT, they get to spend eternity climbing up and down some ladder of "payment" for their sins... or faults... and eventually be "released" (the "length of time" depending on the level of their "works"). Not the first time I've heard such an explanation.
Satan is restrained for a thousand years and then released.
The timing of Satan's release is at the end of the millennium.
Revelation 20:7-8
When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out
to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog...
The timing of Satan's release is at the end of the millennium.
Revelation 20:7-8
When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out
to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog...
