The Gospels and the Mystery

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Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
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#21
Look out, you're going to get hammered for this. Some do not understand right division.
Not when it's ignored for the sake of what they believe at the moment, and that their pastors taught them without them ever applying one critical thought to it all, and without them having to go into the word of God for themselves. Pew scholars are everywhere...

MM
 

Musicmaster

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Feb 8, 2021
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#22
When we look at the content within the Kingdom Gospel as preached by Jesus and afterward, we see that salvation was based upon believing Jesus was Israel’s Messiah (Matthew 16:16, John 11:27, Acts 8:37). No problem with that, right?

However, dare we look at the Kingdom Gospel carefully and honestly, we see there is no mention of believing in Jesus’ death and resurrection, even after His resurrection. Some might say that the resurrection was mentioned in that Gospel preached by Peter and the others, but they will search in vain to find it.

Peter himself, while up on the balcony, didn't tell the Jews on that amazing day of Pentecost that they must believe Jesus died for them and rose from the dead. For those who doubt, please go and read it for yourself. He told them to repent and be baptized (Acts 2:38).

As a matter of fact, right after Paul was saved, he too preached this message: Jesus was the Son of God (Acts 9:20). Paul did not begin to preach his gospel (Christ died for us and rose from the dead) until after he returned from Arabia!

Why not?

Mainly because God had not yet revealed the mystery of the body of Christ that would include both Jew and Gentile under the Gospel of Grace. It wasn't until after Paul returned from his three years in Arabia that he preached this very gospel. During that time in Arabia, the ascended Lord revealed directly to Paul the wondrous meaning of His death and resurrection (Galatians 1:16-19, 2:1-2) in relation to both Jew and Gentile after having set aside Israel and the Kingdom Gospel. This all was AFTER James had written his epistle to the twelve tribes scattered abroad (James 1:1).

MM
 

Musicmaster

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Feb 8, 2021
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#23
Paul’s gospel given to him by Christ Jesus was/is the message of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ Jesus:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Please observe the glaring difference in the content of Paul’s gospel compared to the content of the Kingdom Gospel.

Where is repentance? Where is baptism?

They are not there.

According to the Kingdom Gospel, salvation was granted to the believer after he or she repented, was water baptized, believing Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God (Matthew 16:16-17; John 11:25-27; Acts 2:38), and THEN receive the filling of Holy Spirit.

Under the Gospel of Grace (Acts 20:24), which was Paul’s gospel, all we have to do is believe Christ died for us, was buried and arose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Do you see that? It's so plain that in Paul’s gospel, only one thing is necessary, which is to have faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ Jesus for your sins. No "sinner's prayer" or some other ritual, but only to believe in your heart.

You don't have to immerse yourself into the works of sacraments, religious practices, crawl around a city on your bloody knees, flog yourself, work in Calcutta to bath and feed the poor (although doing good is always a natural outflow from genuine faith), or anything else that the accursed tell you that you must do for salvation.

MM
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#24
The Lord directly revealed that plan ONLY to Paul,

MM
1 Peter 5:12 By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand.

God's Grace is also given to Silvanus

Those strangers scattered throughout the Puntos, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bythinia were given the same Grace just like believing Gentiles.

1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
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#25
Proclaimed repentance
Ministered to Jews only (Matthew 10:5, Galatians 2:7-9)
for salvation (Acts 2:38)
No.

Peter went to the Gentiles to preach the Gospel. Read Acts.

You may want to read a bit deeper into Scripture, and do so with Spiritual understanding of the Scriptures.......
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
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#26
No.

Peter went to the Gentiles to preach the Gospel. Read Acts.

You may want to read a bit deeper into Scripture, and do so with Spiritual understanding of the Scriptures.......
Peter is seeking a national repentance of Israel that their sins may be blotted out upon the return of their Messiah, Jesus.

Acts 3:
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
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#27
YOU SAID IT PERFECTLY MY BROTHER IN CHRIST JESUS!! THANK YOU !!
Our God is a loving God and it shows throughout the whole Bible, how merciful and loving he is, giving people sometimes hundreds of years to repent.
And as you said he is no respecter of persons, anyone who call upon his name with a humble heart will be heard and he will save you, jew or gentile.
the joy in knowing this cannot be replicated!
Indeed we’ve all sinned before and that means we’re all under judgement

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because all have sinned

“for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All are under the judgement of sinners which is death BUT there has been an atonement , a propitiation to save our lives from sin and death

all have sinned and must die by his word

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so now all we have to do is repent and believe the gospel and all of those judgements can be washed away in his blood

However we can’t keep serving satans Will which is sin of we are children of God we’ll perish if we do

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

by following the spirit

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

We can put to death the works of the flesh because we have gods spirit with us now like we didn’t before when sin controlled us

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16, 19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we need to stop thinking we’re already saved regardless of what we do now we were all condemned before Jesus died and rose , now we can repent and live through him by the gospel

awe we’re all lost but now we were saved from that and we’ve been told the truth so we can inherit eternal life in his kingdom if we hear and believe and repent

God doesn’t want anyone to perish so he’s given us the gospel

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel that saves souls of believers

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, ( repent ) and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. ( believe the gospel that saves )But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#28
No.

Peter went to the Gentiles to preach the Gospel. Read Acts.

You may want to read a bit deeper into Scripture, and do so with Spiritual understanding of the Scriptures.......
Amen tbey had actually already heard the same gospel it had spread throughout the regions

“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, ( gentiles too ) and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) that word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judæa, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; ( this is what we read in Matthew mark Luke and John the gospel ) how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; ( a summary of the gospels )

And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-40, 42-

God sent Peter to the gentiles he didn’t want to go but God sent him anyways and converted those men with the holy ghost and then of course tbey began spreading the news to others ect

paul is not different or carrying a different message which you understand already . It doesn’t matter who preached the gospel to them paul acrually tells them it doesn’t matter who they hears the gospel from

“For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:9, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


He’s an apostle like all of them he had a special appointment to lead the gentile ministry but not with a different gospel or message there’s just the gospel and anyone who believes Jew or gentile
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
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#29
1 Peter 5:12 By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand.

God's Grace is also given to Silvanus

Those strangers scattered throughout the Puntos, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bythinia were given the same Grace just like believing Gentiles.

1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
Sylvanus, and even Peter, didn't know anything about the gospel of grace until it was revealed through Paul:

Ephesians 3:1-7
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Paul and Barnabus are the apostles (plural) who worked, by assignment from the Lord, to the Gentiles. Peter was not assigned to preach to the Gentiles, although he did preach to a few of the Gentiles on one occasion. After that one time we have no record of him doing so again.

Notice, though, the exclusiveness of the revelation. Paul did not write about the revelation being made to "us" or to "them," instead his pronouns were exclusive to himself.

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

MM
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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#30
See that? Not even Satan and his demons knew of the Gospel of Grace that would be extended to the Gentiles until after it was revealed to, and preached by Paul. They would not have pushed for the crucifixion of Christ had they known that the kingdom of the Gentiles would be greatly diminished from their clutches through Paul's Gospel. They knew of the Kingdom Gospel, but they did NOT know of the Gospel of Grace and its impact until after it was too late.

Thoughts?

MM
Without the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, my, our messiah, no sin could have ever got taken away in Son's Fathers sight, in his one time death willingly done for us the people, no one else, it was for the people everyone in love from Father and Son as Won (One)! (John 1:29)(John 19:30)
yet that got done by man doing it fro the wrong reason, not knowing it or understanding it, getting Jesus Emmanuel crucified for their own self gain for Jesus to not lead anyone in his Father's Kingdom of real love and mercy for everyone to believe in or not!. They only thought humanly, physically, were dead Spiritually in God's true Love for us all. that Jesus was there to take over leadership, knock out the captivity they were under in the Roman Empire. Man seeing the outside, not the inside as God sees all out and in, knows what is best for everyone even in troubles here and now going on or will or might happen in future as well.
By his willing death, he took captive all sin and destroyed Satan's evil plan to be God over God. all left is flesh nature to be put under The risen Son's feet as in Hebrews 1 tells me this truth, about what is left.
To beleive God in risen Son for them our not consciously so. There will be no excuse at the end of grace given all to appreciate or take for granted. Then it will all get sorted out correctly so.

How does one win, how did God in Son Jesus win going through that crucifixion once for everyone to either believe God or not?
He is risen is how, God through Son overcame death once for us all to stand in thanksgiving and praise seeing all sin taken away as far as the east is from the west. Psalm 100:4. 103:12, then ask for the new Heart revealed in Ezekiel 36:26. That would be the original Heart the first Adam had before his unbelief happened and he ate top be God himself over God.
Now having the new Heart, the original Heart yet with the Knowledge of good and evil choosing only good, (God) since God is the only one good!
Thanks for your post brother ing risen Son Jesus for us all to love in mercy and truth forever from God to us all
 

Musicmaster

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Feb 8, 2021
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#31
1 Corinthians 2:6-8
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

The princes are the prince demons, and Satan. Had Satan and his princes known the mystery revealed to Paul, they would never have pushed for the crucifixion of Christ. In other words, had they known that the crucifixion would result in the loss of so many Gentiles from the clutches of Hell, they would NEVER have countenanced that loss by crucifying the Lord, because they knew how horribly unsuccessful Israel had been at bringing Gentiles into their fold for salvation throughout her history. The cutting off of Israel, then led to the Lord implementing the mystery that had been hidden in Him alone from the creation of the world, revealing it through Paul, and that then robbed Hell of the billions of Gentiles who have since been saved through another means than the nation of Israel:

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Now salvation for Gentiles is of Grace through faith, until the Lord comes to remove us from this earth so that He will once again graft Israel back into the Vine, and the Kingdom Gospel once again is brought into effect, with those people in that period having to ENDURE unto the end so that they THEN SHALL be saved IF they endure. That is not the case for us today, contrary to those who think that we're saved by works right now, which is a doctrine of demons when preached to anyone in the dispensation of grace.

MM
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
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#32
For one to say that the Kingdom Gospel and the Gospel of Grace are one and the same thing is to say something similar to, "Circumcision and uncircumcision are the same thing!"

MM
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#33
There is one gospel and one kingdom. Entrance into the kingdom has always included a supernatural birth from above. Salvation has always been by grace through faith. All these truths are found in OT scripture, though hidden.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
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#34
When we look at the Gospel as preached by the twelve, and the Gospel given to Paul to be preached to Gentiles and Jews alike, it becomes quite clear, apart from over-spiritualizing everything one reads, that the two messages are not one and the same:

The Kingdom Gospel preached by Christ and the twelve:

Proclaimed repentance and water baptism for salvation (Acts 2:38)
Proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom ([URL='Matthew 4:17, Acts 3.19)
Saved and commissioned within Israel’s borders (Matthew 16:13, 16-17)
Taught in Christ’s earthly ministry
Ministered to Jews only (Matthew 10:5, Galatians 2:7-9)

The Gospel of Grace received and taught by Paul:

Proclaimed “believe” alone for salvation (Romans 4:5-6, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
Proclaimed the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24)
Saved and commissioned outside Israel’s borders (Acts 9:3)
Was taught in Christ’s heavenly ministry (Galatians 1:1, 11-12)
Ministered primarily to Gentiles because of Jewish rejection (Romans 11:13, Galatians 2:7-9)

Paul was not taught by the twelve:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

So, Paul was instructed by Christ Jesus, not other men in the mystery, which is the body of Christ, that was hidden in God, not the scriptures or the prophets:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Ephesians 3:2-7
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Not given to the twelve, but only to Paul, who then preached it to all others from that point onward. Paul already knew that the eleven were preaching, but THAT is the reason he persecuted them, and killed them. If Paul was only preaching what the others had already been preaching, then all the scriptures stating otherwise make no sense.

1 Corinthians 2:7-9
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

See that? Not even Satan and his demons knew of the Gospel of Grace that would be extended to the Gentiles until after it was revealed to, and preached by Paul. They would not have pushed for the crucifixion of Christ had they known that the kingdom of the Gentiles would be greatly diminished from their clutches through Paul's Gospel. They knew of the Kingdom Gospel, but they did NOT know of the Gospel of Grace and its impact until after it was too late.

Thoughts?

MM
IMO, this is very simple. The Jews knew God, had His Grace and turned religious. The gentiles cannot know His Grace from religious people........So God had to reveal His Grace AGAIN. Religion doesn't reveal Grace.

Same Gospel, same message.......the Jews turned to religion, rather than sticking with the original(Gods) message.

So we see the contrast in the Bible. One is a message to people who SHOULD know better and the other is to the people who didn't know squat.......Because the Jews failed in their mission to the gentiles.
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
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#35
IMO, this is very simple. The Jews knew God, had His Grace and turned religious. The gentiles cannot know His Grace from religious people........So God had to reveal His Grace AGAIN. Religion doesn't reveal Grace.

Same Gospel, same message.......the Jews turned to religion, rather than sticking with the original(Gods) message.

So we see the contrast in the Bible. One is a message to people who SHOULD know better and the other is to the people who didn't know squat.......Because the Jews failed in their mission to the gentiles.
The last sentence is indeed true. We Israelites failed in our responsibility to be and to remain light and salt to the world for salvation. The Kingdom Gospel was true for us, but because of our failure to stop rejecting Christ Jesus, we as a branch were cut off for a time until the tribulation, and then the Kingdom Gospel will once again become active and valid, but only after the Gospel of Grace is no longer operational as a dispensation on this earth.

Interesting way of putting it, except for the part that the two Gospels are the same, which they are not...if that was your meaning.

MM
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
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#36
The last sentence is indeed true. We Israelites failed in our responsibility to be and to remain light and salt to the world for salvation. The Kingdom Gospel was true for us, but because of our failure to stop rejecting Christ Jesus, we as a branch were cut off for a time until the tribulation, and then the Kingdom Gospel will once again become active and valid, but only after the Gospel of Grace is no longer operational as a dispensation on this earth.

Interesting way of putting it, except for the part that the two Gospels are the same, which they are not...if that was your meaning.

MM
I agree. The salvation message for mankind is ONE. The Kingdom message is diverse for Jews and gentiles.
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
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#37
I agree. The salvation message for mankind is ONE. The Kingdom message is diverse for Jews and gentiles.
The latter statement is indeed true. That's a good way of putting it.

One thing I will say, though, is that the reasoning behind the differences isn't so much because the Jews are Jews, but because the two different Gospels were/are how the Lord wants it to be on the basis of the failure of Israel that the Lord saw from before the creation of the world, He was ready for it.

Because Israel had failed so miserably, there had to be another means through which Gentiles are saved, and the Gospel of Grace that God kept hidden within Himself until the conversion of Paul, it all has gone, and will go, precisely where the Lord wants it to go.

That is what gives to me comfort in the fact that nothing is mere happenstance. God's in control precisely in the vein of His revealed will within His written word.

Israel will once again become what the Lord meant for them to be, and the Kingdom will ultimately fulfill the promises made.

Good stuff.

MM
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#38
When Christ was on earth, the Gospel of the Kingdom meant (1) the King is right here, so (2) believe on Him and be saved. John the Baptist had already told all Israel to repent and be baptized by him. And God and Christ anticipated that Christ's blood would certainly be shed for the remission of sins, and that He would rise again after His crucifixion. So the Gospel was preached but without declaring the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. It could not be otherwise.

However, immediately after the resurrection and ascension of Christ, Peter preached the full Gospel on the day of Pentecost, and it continued to be preached in the same way. Then Paul summarized it is 1 Corinthians 15:1-3.

Regarding the mysteries revealed to Paul alone, they all pertain to the Church -- saved Jews and Gentiles in one Body, which is the Body of Christ (spiritually). And you already quoted the relevant passages. At the same time Paul declared in Acts that he had preached repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ at all times. That is the heart of the Gospel.

So evidently you are mistaken by suggesting that there are two Gospels. There is only ONE Gospel (but it has various designations in Scripture). That is why it is called "the eternal Gospel".
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#39
There is one gospel and one kingdom. Entrance into the kingdom has always included a supernatural birth from above. Salvation has always been by grace through faith. All these truths are found in OT scripture, though hidden.
Kingdom of heaven + kingdom of God = 2 kingdoms, one physical and one spiritual.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#40
So the Gospel was preached but without declaring the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
That is Paul’s gospel. It is not the gospel without it.