Predestination

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S

shroom2

Banned
#261
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#261
Strangelove said:
I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly but are you saying that satan and God are like.....at war with eachother...as.....equals?

Are you saying that GOD is not SOVEREIGN over all things including satan?
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God is righteous and just. Adam legally transferred dominion and authority over this world to satan. God has to honor that.

But because of Christ, we (Christians) have been legally bought back. That is why we can stand against the devil and he will flee.

Eph 6:
11) Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13) Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day [now], and having done all, to stand.

Astounding. But I guess one error leads to the next and the next and the next.....
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Yep. You who believe -everything- is God's will prove that.

Absolutely unbelievable. God has no power over satan is what your basically saying.

You need to check what your saying before its too late. This is very serious error.

(Job 1:7-12, 2:4-6)
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I figured you would bring up Job.... It's a popular section for people who believe as you do. It's allegory.

Job was a righteous man. He loved God. God loved him. Why would God grant permission for His arch enemy, the devil, to torment him to within an inch of his life? Would you do that to one of your kids? Would Jesus do it?

The devil was mostly masked in the OT. He didn't just start showing up when Jesus did. It is always satan who oppresses people. People in the OT did not have holy spirit (except for a few). They were not able to handle the reality of the spiritual war that is raging. They didn't have the tools. God takes the credit and the blame for everything in the OT. The reality of it was that satan hardened pharoah's heart. Satan caused men to become evil during the time of Noah, when "all the thoughts of his heart were only evil continually". Satan sent the spirit to torment Saul. And on and on.

Do you have an answer for this?
Look around. Do you believe all the crap happening in the world is God's will?
 
Strangelove

Strangelove

Banned
#262
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#262
shroom2 said:
God is righteous and just. Adam legally transferred dominion and authority over this world to satan. God has to honor that.

But because of Christ, we (Christians) have been legally bought back. That is why we can stand against the devil and he will flee.
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Wow Shroomville it just gets better and better.

Not only is your god a puny halfwit who cant accomplish things that he wants to do.....now he's privvy to legal deals made between man and satan that he HAS TO HONOR!

Shroom....who has ALL POWER in heaven and on earth?

shroom2 said:
Yep. You who believe -everything- is God's will prove that.
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I just picked my nose and flicked the bogey across the room.

I dont think that had anything to do with God's will.

So how do you explain that?

shroom2 said:
I figured you would bring up Job.... It's a popular section for people who believe as you do. It's allegory.

Job was a righteous man. He loved God. God loved him. Why would God grant permission for His arch enemy, the devil, to torment him to within an inch of his life? Would you do that to one of your kids? Would Jesus do it?

The devil was mostly masked in the OT. He didn't just start showing up when Jesus did. It is always satan who oppresses people. People in the OT did not have holy spirit (except for a few). They were not able to handle the reality of the spiritual war that is raging. They didn't have the tools. God takes the credit and the blame for everything in the OT. The reality of it was that satan hardened pharoah's heart. Satan caused men to become evil during the time of Noah, when "all the thoughts of his heart were only evil continually". Satan sent the spirit to torment Saul. And on and on.
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Alegory huh? Just say the word and poooooof! Scripture gone. What is the purpose of this alledged allegory? Please explain.

Shroom.

(Romans 9:21) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

(Romans 9:22) What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

(Romans 9:23) And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Who is the potter that made the vessels?

shroom2 said:
Do you have an answer for this?
Look around. Do you believe all the crap happening in the world is God's will?
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No I dont.

Sin is not God's will. It's satans. God allows satan out on his leash to tempt people.

Do you not understand this concept?

GOD IS SOVEREIGN OVER ALL THINGS.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#264
#264
shroom2 said:
WHY would a loving God do that?
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Let's not define "love" by what we would want God to do, but rather, let God bet he definition of love.
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#265
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#265
jimmydiggs said:
Let's not define "love" by what we would want God to do, but rather, let God bet he definition of love.
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Do you believe that God "allowing" the devil to tempt us is love?

Is that how you love your children, by allowing evildoers to tempt them? Don't you do as much as you can to shield them from evil?

...the analogy is valid. God loves us as a father loves his children.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#266
#266
Strangelove said:
I just picked my nose and flicked the bogey across the room.
I dont think that had anything to do with God's will.
So how do you explain that?
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That is disgusting! Is that how you teach the Bible the word of God?
 
DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
#267
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#267
Would anybody like a cup of cold water?
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#273
#273
Strangelove said:
Does God chooses who will be saved and who will not?

Or does it just depend on what decisions WE make?
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2 Peter 1:3
(3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Joshua 24:15
(15) And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

 
Strangelove

Strangelove

Banned
#274
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#274
Laodicea said:
2 Peter 1:3
(3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Joshua 24:15
(15) And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
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Yes we have freewill. And we make decisions every day.

But!

Does God chooses who will be saved and who will not?

Or does it just depend on what decisions WE make?

Is our freewill decision to accept Jesus wholly dependant on Gods predestination of us as His sheep?

Or does God look through the tunnels of time and base His eternal plan on decisions that random people make in the future? (the De Lorian theory).
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#275
#275
Strangelove said:
Yes we have freewill. And we make decisions every day.

But!

Does God chooses who will be saved and who will not?

Or does it just depend on what decisions WE make?

Is our freewill decision to accept Jesus wholly dependant on Gods predestination of us as His sheep?

Or does God look through the tunnels of time and base His eternal plan on decisions that random people make in the future? (the De Lorian theory).
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Romans 8:1
(1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Acts 4:12
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 
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Strangelove

Strangelove

Banned
#277
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#277
Laodicea said:
Romans 8:1
(1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Acts 4:12
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
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I see your not gonna answer questions.

forget it. Your free to go.
 
Strangelove

Strangelove

Banned
#278
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#278
shroom2 said:
No. He has made it available for all, and He wants all men to be saved.


Each of us must make the decision to accept what He has made available.
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Post #262 was next up for you Shroomer.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#279
#279
Strangelove said:
I see your not gonna answer questions.

forget it. Your free to go.
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So you prefer to hear people's opinions than the Bible.

2 Corinthians 5:20
(20) Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

An ambassador never gives his own word.
 
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