Matthew 7:1-5 Jesus Tells Us Not To Judge

[Pilgrimshope]

So is forgiveness. Both forgiveness and unforgiveness are potential conclusions properly based on an assessment of the person's spiritual state. If you don't know, give it to God to determine.

Yes the subject of forgivness whether we do or not knowing that Jesus has forgiven us and also the person who has offended us . The key to forgivness for a believer is to understand Jesus died for my sins so I could be forgiven ….but also for the person who just offended me he suffered and died for that persons sin too

I dont want to be the one holding his sin against him when on the other hand I’m pleading the blood over my own sins . Would make me a hypocrite and I would deserve the judgement I had given others

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Those are fine definitions, but not the only way to define judgment. 1 Corinthians 2:15 says the one who is spiritual judges all things. This suggests we are to judge, but not as you have suggested. Because we only know in part, our judgments can only be functional, and not final; however, this doesn't preclude us from judging.

judging things or situations is t the same meaning as judging a human biengs salvstion or relationship or worth to God

were told to make good judgements regarding our own lives and situations were in choices we make ect but taught not to judge another person in any way there’s only one judge and he’s for all mankind the same

“Before the LORD; For he cometh to judge the earth: With righteousness shall he judge the world, And the people with equity.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭98:9‬

“And he shall judge the world in righteousness, He shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭9:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.”
‭‭John‬ ‭9:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24, 26-27‬ ‭

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭

when we believe the gospel we are hearing and accepting his judgements that are final like this one is beautiful and life giving

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or this one which also is the same

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we know the judge and have his words of judgement tbat can save us one of the most important is to not judge and condemn and hold grudges against others

awe make judgements every day about what we’re doing or where we’re going , how to navigate a situation ect we are never to make judgements regarding other people and thier poace or value or worth or non value towards god

God alone is the judge we all have to see the same judge in the end

 

[Cameron143]

judging things or situations is t the same meaning as judging a human biengs salvstion or relationship or worth to God

were told to make good judgements regarding our own lives and situations were in choices we make ect but taught not to judge another person in any way there’s only one judge and he’s for all mankind the same

“Before the LORD; For he cometh to judge the earth: With righteousness shall he judge the world, And the people with equity.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭98:9‬

“And he shall judge the world in righteousness, He shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭9:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.”
‭‭John‬ ‭9:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24, 26-27‬ ‭

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭

when we believe the gospel we are hearing and accepting his judgements that are final like this one is beautiful and life giving

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or this one which also is the same

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we know the judge and have his words of judgement tbat can save us one of the most important is to not judge and condemn and hold grudges against others

awe make judgements every day about what we’re doing or where we’re going , how to navigate a situation ect we are never to make judgements regarding other people and thier poace or value or worth or non value towards god

God alone is the judge we all have to see the same judge in the end

Great stuff. But we still need to make functional judgments of people as well, otherwise how would we know who to share the gospel with or not and who false teachers may be?
Again, God alone knows all things and is responsible for final judgment. He alone is qualified to do so. But we do need to make many functional judgments about both things and people.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Great stuff. But we still need to make functional judgments of people as well, otherwise how would we know who to share the gospel with or not and who false teachers may be?
Again, God alone knows all things and is responsible for final judgment. He alone is qualified to do so. But we do need to make many functional judgments about both things and people.

“how would we know who to share the gospel with or not “

That’s not your judgement to make brother . It’s already been made we o ow who to share the gospel with because Jesus said who the audience is and who can be saved

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

We aren’t meant to try to select people who’s worthy or not lol that’s my whole point brother we’re just told to be a light in a dark world share the gospel speak of Jesus ,talk of the cross , share his kingdom with others .

One of the main principles of the gospel is you aren’t anyone else’s judge , but Jesus is your judge and tbier judge too . So by hearing and believing and then sharing the gospel with other people you cross paths with they can either hear and believe and be saved or hear and reject it as stupidity and be damned

our place is to be like a glass full of water spilling over wherever we go as we are able and see opportunities to share Jesus with others the things that we know and believe from the gospel are the best things to share then maybe some testimony of our own afterwards as well

awe aren’t supposed to judge anyone brother and wether they are worthy of hearing the gospel we are going to be judged only for what we ourselves do and say and they also will be judged by the same lord and judge for what they say and do

We aren’t the judge but become firther witnesses of Jesus when we believe and share the gospel with everyone regardless of man’s judgements on them lol even our own bro

 

[Blade]

Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment. John 7:24

1st Sam 16:7 " For the Lord sees not as man sees; for man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart. "

Not that we can't we just tend not to do it with love mercy grace forgiveness. Like Sis here said.. not according to appearance but with righteous judgement

 

[Ballaurena]

Yes the subject of forgivness whether we do or not knowing that Jesus has forgiven us and also the person who has offended us . The key to forgivness for a believer is to understand Jesus died for my sins so I could be forgiven ….but also for the person who just offended me he suffered and died for that persons sin too

I dont want to be the one holding his sin against him when on the other hand I’m pleading the blood over my own sins . Would make me a hypocrite and I would deserve the judgement I had given others

Not exactly. Let's not forget that God forgives us if we repent, not court blanche or even Satan would qualify. This is why Jesus said in Luke 13:2-3, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate? I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." I have heard it said that justice and grace are the same thing, and I tend to agree - To forgive the unworthy is to condemn them to a fate worse than death. For example, in the day-to-day people who give too much grace to their children destroy them. I have seen this more than once as a teacher and it breaks my heart every time - If you really love someone, you hold them accountable so that they can learn and become redeemed. And in the eternal, allowing them to go on in their sin (unrepentance) without consequence (forgiven) means allowing them to go on causing themselves and everyone else harm for forever. Though really, it isn't our place to decide someone's ultimate fate one way or another, but only God's.

One thing that has you quite confused is that while Jesus did die to make forgiveness available to all ("While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8), you have wrongly equated this dying for all with meaning automatically applied to all. In truth God's grace is sort of like a generous scholarship program with a big bank account, but for which you still have to go through the steps to apply. Like our holy God, we also need to practice true and righteous justice in our interactions with others rather than cheap grace.

Another factor too that catches us all up in our understanding things of God at times is that what was, is, and will be are all the same in the whole. Therefore, you don't have to explicitly forgive your disobedient child in the moment that they are still misbehaving, but you, like God, can have conditional forgiveness already there, formed and released from your heart, because you presume they will probably grow out of it. Similarly, you can have conditional forgiveness for an adult offender already released from your heart, allowing for the outcome of whether they will repent or not to be yet determined. It is a false dichotomy to think the only options are unconditioned forgiveness and unforgiveness.



In closing, the Bible has much to say about the subject of grace/justice. This smattering of Bible verses is far from exhaustive. I apologize for the lack of organization:

• "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9.
• "Evil men do not understand justice,
  But those who seek the Lord understand all things" Proverbs 28:5
• "Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause." Isaiah 1:17
• He loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of the steadfast love of the Lord. " Psalm 33:5
• "The rod and rebuke give wisdom,
  But a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.
  
  ...
  Correct your son, and he will give you rest;
  Yes, he will give delight to your soul." Proverbs 29:15, 17
  
  
• "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables, so that
  
  ‘Seeing they may see and not perceive,
  And hearing they may hear and not understand;
  Lest they should turn,
  And their sins be forgiven them.’ ” Mark 4:11-12 (Note 1: To turn away from sin is to repent.)
  
  
• "John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." Mark 1:4
• " 'As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’ "Ezekiel 33:11 (See note 1 above.)
• "In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, and saying, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!' ” Matt. 3:1-2
• "From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.' " Matt. 4:17
• Matthew 5:21-26 about being held accountable if you don't first be reconciled to your brother. Note the severity of the unforgiveness.
• Matthew 11:20-24 About the lack of repentance affecting the judgment of particular cities.
• Matthew 12:39-42 About the lack of repentance affecting the judgment of the generation living during Jesus' time on earth.
• “Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another," Zechariah 7:9
• “You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor." Lev. 19:15

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Not exactly. Let's not forget that God forgives us if we repent, not court blanche or even Satan would qualify. This is why Jesus said in Luke 13:2-3, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate? I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." I have heard it said that justice and grace are the same thing, and I tend to agree - To forgive the unworthy is to condemn them to a fate worse than death. For example, in the day-to-day people who give too much grace to their children destroy them. I have seen this more than once as a teacher and it breaks my heart every time - If you really love someone, you hold them accountable so that they can learn and become redeemed. And in the eternal, allowing them to go on in their sin (unrepentance) without consequence (forgiven) means allowing them to go on causing themselves and everyone else harm for forever. Though really, it isn't our place to decide someone's ultimate fate one way or another, but only God's.

One thing that has you quite confused is that while Jesus did die to make forgiveness available to all ("While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8), you have wrongly equated this dying for all with meaning automatically applied to all. In truth God's grace is sort of like a generous scholarship program with a big bank account, but for which you still have to go through the steps to apply. Like our holy God, we also need to practice true and righteous justice in our interactions with others rather than cheap grace.

Another factor too that catches us all up in our understanding things of God at times is that what was, is, and will be are all the same in the whole. Therefore, you don't have to explicitly forgive your disobedient child in the moment that they are still misbehaving, but you, like God, can have conditional forgiveness already there, formed and released from your heart, because you presume they will probably grow out of it. Similarly, you can have conditional forgiveness for an adult offender already released from your heart, allowing for the outcome of whether they will repent or not to be yet determined. It is a false dichotomy to think the only options are unconditioned forgiveness and unforgiveness.



In closing, the Bible has much to say about the subject of grace/justice. This smattering of Bible verses is far from exhaustive. I apologize for the lack of organization:

• "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9.
• "Evil men do not understand justice,
  But those who seek the Lord understand all things" Proverbs 28:5
• "Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause." Isaiah 1:17
• He loves righteousness and justice; the earth is full of the steadfast love of the Lord. " Psalm 33:5
• "The rod and rebuke give wisdom,
  But a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.
  
  ...
  Correct your son, and he will give you rest;
  Yes, he will give delight to your soul." Proverbs 29:15, 17
  
  
• "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables, so that
  
  ‘Seeing they may see and not perceive,
  And hearing they may hear and not understand;
  Lest they should turn,
  And their sins be forgiven them.’ ” Mark 4:11-12 (Note 1: To turn away from sin is to repent.)
  
  
• "John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." Mark 1:4
• " 'As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’ "Ezekiel 33:11 (See note 1 above.)
• "In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, and saying, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!' ” Matt. 3:1-2
• "From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.' " Matt. 4:17
• Matthew 5:21-26 about being held accountable if you don't first be reconciled to your brother. Note the severity of the unforgiveness.
• Matthew 11:20-24 About the lack of repentance affecting the judgment of particular cities.
• Matthew 12:39-42 About the lack of repentance affecting the judgment of the generation living during Jesus' time on earth.
• “Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another," Zechariah 7:9
• “You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor." Lev. 19:15

“Not exactly. Let's not forget that God forgives us if we repent, not court blanche or even Satan would qualify.”

yes no I es mentioning any “ carte Blanche “ to sin lol

And yes of course we have to repent and believe the gospel.

if I rob your home while you go away , then later you forgive me , if I don’t repent…… I could easily take this as permission to go ahead and rob you again because you were merciful to forgive my sin ….

the issue would be my unrepentant heart and my accepting and following after it. That’s what would cause me to take forgivness as a carte Blanche

sort of “ we’ll I robbed the guy and he did forgive me so I guess that means he always will no matter what I take and what I do …..

im only fooling myself if that’s ny heart I need to repent and hear his word and believe ….

bit if it grieves my heart tbat I’ve stolen from you my neighbor and then I confess and come in repentance then mercy is just and good and serves a purpose of restore sion after mistakes and decisions we later regret because they led us into sin

if we have no conscience we’re in a bad spot if we really want to be good people and it bothers us when we’ve done wrong then we’ll end up repenting if we follow the gospel

either way Christian’s are commanded to forgive others and to not hold grudges

 

[glf]

Magenta disagrees with my post with a red X. But my post is biblical. So she is refusing what Scripture says. When people disagree with me they are generally disagreeing with the Word of God.

Jn 7: 24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

 

[glf]

1 Jn 5: 16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

 

[Magenta]

Magenta disagrees with my post with a red X. But my post is biblical. So she is refusing what Scripture says. When people disagree with me they are generally disagreeing with the Word of God.

Liar, liar. I disagree with you when you are in error, which you have never admitted to me and refuse to acknowledge even though you claim that is what others should do when they are corrected, plus apologize, but we all know it will be a very cold day in hell when you apologize to me. Your preference is to run away and pretend it never happened rather than to be held accountable. I also disagree with you when you are a hypocrite, when you wrongfully assume and falsely accuse, when you repeatedly exaggerate to such a degree it is outright dishonesty, which you are prone to do with much gusto and very often. Etc etc. Judging to evaluate someone is not necessarily righteous as you claimed. People misjudge often. You even misjudge yourself, which is evident in the post of yours I quoted. It's not the first time for that either, pretending you are on the moral high ground when you are not.

 

[daisyseesthesun]

Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: But the LORD pondereth the hearts

 

[Ballaurena]

“Not exactly. Let's not forget that God forgives us if we repent, not court blanche or even Satan would qualify.”

yes no I es mentioning any “ carte Blanche “ to sin lol

And yes of course we have to repent and believe the gospel.

if I rob your home while you go away , then later you forgive me , if I don’t repent…… I could easily take this as permission to go ahead and rob you again because you were merciful to forgive my sin ….

the issue would be my unrepentant heart and my accepting and following after it. That’s what would cause me to take forgivness as a carte Blanche

sort of “ we’ll I robbed the guy and he did forgive me so I guess that means he always will no matter what I take and what I do …..

im only fooling myself if that’s ny heart I need to repent and hear his word and believe ….

bit if it grieves my heart tbat I’ve stolen from you my neighbor and then I confess and come in repentance then mercy is just and good and serves a purpose of restore sion after mistakes and decisions we later regret because they led us into sin

if we have no conscience we’re in a bad spot if we really want to be good people and it bothers us when we’ve done wrong then we’ll end up repenting if we follow the gospel

either way Christian’s are commanded to forgive others and to not hold grudges

I hope we are on the same page here. I just want to make sure it is understood that we are commanded to forgive when, and only when appropriate (like God), not forgiving carte blanche to all who have sinned against us without regard for the perpetrator's state of repentance (a common mistake). I'm not sure if we are communicating since you seemed to summarize the carte blanche back to me in reference to sinning, which I never said.

Realize that while it isn't a salvation issue, this matters because forgiveness isn't just an exercise for our mental health or some untethered ideal. Rather, it causes real changes in the spirit that must be determined properly. Consider for example, Matthew 18:15-18. (See below.) When done correctly, the natural physical consequence is then a boost to our mental state because the physical state follows the spiritual state.

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

“Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Telling someone to forgive inappropriately can therefore cause real harm.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I hope we are on the same page here. I just want to make sure it is understood that we are commanded to forgive when, and only when appropriate (like God), not forgiving carte blanche to all who have sinned against us without regard for the perpetrator's state of repentance (a common mistake). I'm not sure if we are communicating since you seemed to summarize the carte blanche back to me in reference to sinning, which I never said.

Realize that while it isn't a salvation issue, this matters because forgiveness isn't just an exercise for our mental health or some untethered ideal. Rather, it causes real changes in the spirit that must be determined properly. Consider for example, Matthew 18:15-18. (See below.) When done correctly, the natural physical consequence is then a boost to our mental state because the physical state follows the spiritual state.

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

“Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Telling someone to forgive inappropriately can therefore cause real harm.

“we are commanded to forgive when, and only when appropriate “

naw we aren’t on the same page at all


heres my position , well it’s what the lord says about it and I’m a believer

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.”
Matthew 10


i don’t recall any teaching in scripture explaining to a Christian when to not forgive another

Do you know of any teaching in Christian doctrine that explains how forgiving others can harm you ? Or any place we’re taught not to forgive under this or tbat certain condition ?

I can show you where whether I forgive others determines my own forgivness like Jesus taught

But can you show me where it’s harmful for someone to forgive in the Bible ?

Someone doesn’t have to repent for me to forgive them take an example from Stephen who was forgiving the men who were stoning him to death as they did it

“And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:59-60‬ ‭

There’s no place God teaches us not to forgive or to place any conditions upon it what we do isn’t based on whether others repent we can forgive and are. Called to forgive between God and ourselves to forgive others in tbat relationship

The importance of it is here

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭

The condition is if I have anything against anyone not whether they repented and it’s between God and myself who was offended I’m asking him not to hold thier sin against them.


This of course benefits my heart wheras grudges and hard feelings against others corrupts my life.

were definately commanded to forgive others and this is t conditioned upon whether they ask or repent it’s a Christian duty

 

[daisyseesthesun]

By forgiving people that even do grievcy trespasses the people that do such thing just can't believe that we can forgive them. This more often then not causes the perpetrator to believe in our lord. Jesus works best in times of adversary he pores out his spirit but we have to be like Jesus for it to work.

 

[Ballaurena]

“we are commanded to forgive when, and only when appropriate “

naw we aren’t on the same page at all


heres my position , well it’s what the lord says about it and I’m a believer

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.”
Matthew 10


i don’t recall any teaching in scripture explaining to a Christian when to not forgive another

Do you know of any teaching in Christian doctrine that explains how forgiving others can harm you ? Or any place we’re taught not to forgive under this or tbat certain condition ?

I can show you where whether I forgive others determines my own forgivness like Jesus taught

But can you show me where it’s harmful for someone to forgive in the Bible ?

Someone doesn’t have to repent for me to forgive them take an example from Stephen who was forgiving the men who were stoning him to death as they did it

“And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:59-60‬ ‭

There’s no place God teaches us not to forgive or to place any conditions upon it what we do isn’t based on whether others repent we can forgive and are. Called to forgive between God and ourselves to forgive others in tbat relationship

The importance of it is here

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭

The condition is if I have anything against anyone not whether they repented and it’s between God and myself who was offended I’m asking him not to hold thier sin against them.


This of course benefits my heart wheras grudges and hard feelings against others corrupts my life.

were definately commanded to forgive others and this is t conditioned upon whether they ask or repent it’s a Christian duty

At least we are communicating now. Obviously I disagree when you say that your view is the Lord's. Many people (really all of us to some extent) conflate their interpretation of a verse with God's meaning.

I'm not going to write my response all up again, though, since I already covered this topic in-depth including giving a whole litany of Bible verses which I'm not sure you actually read, but then it was pretty long. I would have expected you to have read and cited some of them, at least. You also haven't addressed my core 'arguments,' (pardon the expression since I am not interested in truly arguing, so help me God), so I have no reason to believe there would be value in reiterating them.

Anyway, you have your walk with God and I have mine. So long as we are willing, God will get us each where we need to be.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

By forgiving people that even do grievcy trespasses the people that do such thing just can't believe that we can forgive them. This more often then not causes the perpetrator to believe in our lord. Jesus works best in times of adversary he pores out his spirit but we have to be like Jesus for it to work.

amen

“Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Redeemed82]

It is also written the spiritual man judges all things

 

[Pilgrimshope]

At least we are communicating now. Obviously I disagree when you say that your view is the Lord's. Many people (really all of us to some extent) conflate their interpretation of a verse with God's meaning.

I'm not going to write my response all up again, though, since I already covered this topic in-depth including giving a whole litany of Bible verses which I'm not sure you actually read, but then it was pretty long. I would have expected you to have read and cited some of them, at least. You also haven't addressed my core 'arguments,' (pardon the expression since I am not interested in truly arguing, so help me God), so I have no reason to believe there would be value in reiterating them.

Anyway, you have your walk with God and I have mine. So long as we are willing, God will get us each where we need to be.

“least we are communicating now. Obviously I disagree when you say that your view is the Lord's. Many people (really all of us to some extent) conflate their interpretation of a verse with God's meaning.”

well I mean how do you interpret this ?

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not really mysterious it’s plainly stated. We could I suppose ot worst it to not mean what he said but my position is we’re meant to hear what he taught and believe
Or Paul it’s hard to “ interpret “ this other than just what he’s saying

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In the end anyone we refuse to forgive Jesus has died for thier sins also , will we be the one to set aside the atonement and propitiation ?

“and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the thing is it doesn’t always need to be interpreted but needs to be heard and believed so we will repent , mostly it’s not a lack of understanding what’s there but a lack of accepting it for what it is

“And his Lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Not really sure how one could misinterpret this stuff that Jesus the lord taught believers ….

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He sort of just taught what he taught

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It is also written the spiritual man judges all things

Yea but clearly not people for thier sins friend

 

[daisyseesthesun]

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, youve gained a brother."

"Telling someone to forgive inappropriately can therefore cause real harm."

Ballaurena,

Your talking about a christian wronging another and will not correct his fault or sin against you.

Then yes asking for apology from such a person is bad and will do more harm then good. But forgiving that person needs to be done for you and not the person. You telling him you have already forgiven him does not need to be done out loud. And who know later he could ask for forgiveness of the trespasses against you anything possible with Our father. It's always good to keep such people in your prayers.