Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Sipsey]

Wow! What a just god you have. He punishes sin twice over. And I thought you said Jesus' atonement was vicarious and efficacious.

In Christianity, eternal separation from God is primarily understood to be a consequence of sin. According to Christian doctrine, sin creates a separation between humanity and God because God is holy and cannot be in communion with sin. This separation is often described as spiritual death or eternal separation from God, which is the result of not being reconciled to Him through faith in Jesus Christ.

However, the key theological point in most Christian traditions is that while sin causes this separation, the opportunity for reconciliation is offered through Jesus’ sacrificial death and resurrection. Salvation is available to those who accept this gift through faith, repentance, and belief in Christ. Thus, eternal separation from God (often referred to as hell) is not solely because of sin itself, but because of a rejection of the reconciliation and salvation offered by God through Jesus Christ.

In short, it’s not just sin that separates a person from God eternally, but the refusal to accept God’s offer of forgiveness and redemption through Jesus.

 

[brightfame52]

Only if they responded to the Lord's offer of forgiveness when called...

False teaching nowhere in scripture

 

[Cameron143]

No one is going to hell for their sins.

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. ​

And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged ​

according to their works, by the things which were written in the books." Rev 20:12​

All their works will be searched through. One work alone will not be found which will condemn them.

​

Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son ​

of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”​

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” ​

​

John 6:27-29​

​

It becomes so simple once someone is able to point it out for us...

grace and peace ..............

So Jesus paid for their sins, God accepted His payment on their behalf, and then sends them to hell anyways? How is God just?

Sin doesn't send people to hell? Is unbelief sin?

 

[Cameron143]

Yes.

See post #10103.

 

[brightfame52]

@Sipsey

his separation is often described as spiritual death or eternal separation from God, which is the result of not being reconciled to Him through faith in Jesus Christ.

Those Christ died for arent reconciled to God through faith in Jesus Christ , but by the death of Jesus Christ they were reconciled to God, even while enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[Cameron143]

In Christianity, eternal separation from God is primarily understood to be a consequence of sin. According to Christian doctrine, sin creates a separation between humanity and God because God is holy and cannot be in communion with sin. This separation is often described as spiritual death or eternal separation from God, which is the result of not being reconciled to Him through faith in Jesus Christ.

However, the key theological point in most Christian traditions is that while sin causes this separation, the opportunity for reconciliation is offered through Jesus’ sacrificial death and resurrection. Salvation is available to those who accept this gift through faith, repentance, and belief in Christ. Thus, eternal separation from God (often referred to as hell) is not solely because of sin itself, but because of a rejection of the reconciliation and salvation offered by God through Jesus Christ.

In short, it’s not just sin that separates a person from God eternally, but the refusal to accept God’s offer of forgiveness and redemption through Jesus.

Refusing or not refusing is not something a person does? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is a command? Does the law now save?

 

[brightfame52]

So Jesus paid for their sins, God accepted His payment on their behalf, and then sends them to hell anyways? How is God just?

Sin doesn't send people to hell? Is unbelief sin?

Yes unbelief is sin, and if Christ died for sin, He died for unbelief

 

[Sipsey]

Refusing or not refusing is not something a person does? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is a command? Does the law now save?

I thought what I posted was fairly clear. Apparently not to some.

Refusing or not refusing is not something a person does? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is a command? Does the law now save?

You may draw any conclusion you wish. What I posted is a simplistic presentation, that many can use at face value, or to convolute into fanciful doctrines.

 

[Cameron143]

I thought what I posted was fairly clear. Apparently not to some.

You may draw any conclusion you wish. What I posted is a simplistic presentation, that many can use at face value, or to convolute into fanciful doctrines.

Just some questions that came to mind. If Jesus did indeed pay for the sins of all humanity, and God accepted the payment, and if unbelief is a sin, wouldn't it already have been covered?
God is sovereign, and free to put any condition upon man He chooses. But if belief is a requirement for salvation and not a condition of salvation, how is salvation of grace? And if God accepts payment for sin yet still requires some to pay for their sins, how is God just?

 

[Sipsey]

Just some questions that came to mind. If Jesus did indeed pay for the sins of all humanity, and God accepted the payment, and if unbelief is a sin, wouldn't it already have been covered?
God is sovereign, and free to put any condition upon man He chooses. But if belief is a requirement for salvation and not a condition of salvation, how is salvation of grace? And if God accepts payment for sin yet still requires some to pay for their sins, how is God just?

I have come to view salvation as an individual venture. If a Doctor comes to a patients bedside who has a fatal condition, and recommends a specific prescription as a cure, and places the bottle with directions on the nightstand beside the patient, then that medicine must be utilized before the cure can take effect. The patient must first trust that Dr.( Faith). That faith is then realized when they indeed apply that medicine as prescribed. I can’t think of a verse that actually commands one to be saved, however, we are indeed commanded to be filled with His Spirit once the blood of Jesus has been applied by faith to our lost souls. We have such a small part in our salvation that it is nearly invisible to all but God, who judges our hearts.

 

[Genez]

So Jesus paid for their sins, God accepted His payment on their behalf, and then sends them to hell anyways? How is God just?

Sin doesn't send people to hell? Is unbelief sin?

What do people go to Hell for?

Unbelief in Himself is evil. Not sin

 

[decipher]

for the Unjust/Nonelect/Unsaved whose names are not written in The Book of Life?

Revelation 21:27
There shall not enter into it any thing defiled, or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie, but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb

Here is a nutshell of what is going on:
We are all born under the Law because all humans inherit the knowledge of good and evil from Adam and Eve. From birth, the motivation for living is self above all else. We are all guilty (except Jesus) and are condemned to eternal damnation. The Father could condemn everyone, but then He would be merciless. The Father could forgive everyone, but then there would be lawlessness in His kingdom. The Father is both just and merciful. Because He is just, all sinners are condemned. Because He is merciful, a saves a chosen few throughout human history. He erases their sins through trusting in Jesus' death for the remission of sins, and perfects them by changing their motivation from love of self to love for God first and love for all others as we love ourselves second.
Jesus died for everyone, but the Father, out of everyone, chooses who He will give to His Son to fill his spiritual body and become a member of the Son's kingdom and the Father's family.
John 17: 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name; those that thou gavest me I have kept , and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Jesus kept the apostles that were chosen in the name of the Father except for Judas who was predestined in scripture.
John 17: 9 I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them whom thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Those that are chosen by the Father to be part of Jesus' spiritual body belong to the Father because all contain the Father's Spirit including Jesus. All that posses the Holy Spirit of the Father belong to the heavenly family of God. The saved are given to the Son by the Father.
John 17:11 Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
When baptized in the name of the Father, you are chosen by the Father and will receive His Holy Spirit and posses the same love in your heart that is shared by the Father and Son. We become One with the Father and Son because we have the same Spirit which acts as a portal through which we receive direction, communication, and knowledge from them.
John 6: 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

[Rufus]

In Christianity, eternal separation from God is primarily understood to be a consequence of sin. According to Christian doctrine, sin creates a separation between humanity and God because God is holy and cannot be in communion with sin. This separation is often described as spiritual death or eternal separation from God, which is the result of not being reconciled to Him through faith in Jesus Christ.

However, the key theological point in most Christian traditions is that while sin causes this separation, the opportunity for reconciliation is offered through Jesus’ sacrificial death and resurrection. Salvation is available to those who accept this gift through faith, repentance, and belief in Christ. Thus, eternal separation from God (often referred to as hell) is not solely because of sin itself, but because of a rejection of the reconciliation and salvation offered by God through Jesus Christ.

In short, it’s not just sin that separates a person from God eternally, but the refusal to accept God’s offer of forgiveness and redemption through Jesus.

In other words, God sent Jesus into the world to potentially save it? Jesus makes salvation available (i.e. possible) to those who choose to be saved?

 

[Cameron143]

I have come to view salvation as an individual venture. If a Doctor comes to a patients bedside who has a fatal condition, and recommends a specific prescription as a cure, and places the bottle with directions on the nightstand beside the patient, then that medicine must be utilized before the cure can take effect. The patient must first trust that Dr.( Faith). That faith is then realized when they indeed apply that medicine as prescribed. I can’t think of a verse that actually commands one to be saved, however, we are indeed commanded to be filled with His Spirit once the blood of Jesus has been applied by faith to our lost souls. We have such a small part in our salvation that it is nearly invisible to all but God, who judges our hearts.

I have a slightly different version. The doctor comes into the room and finds a corpse. In order for the medicine to work, he must first impart life to him.

 

[Cameron143]

What do people go to Hell for?

Unbelief in Himself is evil. Not sin

Did Jesus take our unbelief on Himself? Did He take our sins upon Him?

 

[Rufus]

What do people go to Hell for?

Unbelief in Himself is evil. Not sin

How can an evil act not be sinful?

Moreover, unbelief in Jesus will result in unbelievers dying in their sins -- the sins for which they will be judged!

John 8:23-24
23 And He was saying to them, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24 "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."
NASB

So when Jesus told the Pharisees that they'll die in their sins unless they believe in Him, was he telling them that they would die eternally for all the good works they did in this life?

 

[glf]

Yes.

False teaching nowhere in scripture

To my thinking, scripture is every word inspired in the orig language...

 

[Mem]

What do people go to Hell for?

Unbelief in Himself is evil. Not sin

I like this view from that angle. Sin is an offense against God, but unbelief is rejecting God altogether, the only hope of salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

To my thinking, scripture is every word inspired in the orig language...

Rabbit trail, whats the point

 

[glf]

Rabbit trail, whats the point

I don't understand what you mean. Perhaps I'm too old. : ( @me