Gods will vs mans free will
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Time for you to answer MY questions:
Is Jesus wrongly characterizing and then judging the children of Israel here? Who is liable? God?
Are you saying that there is NO FREE WILL, therefore Israel cannot RIGHTLY be judged, and therefore Jesus is an UNJUST judge and evil? And that all of the horrible things that happened to Israel are ultimately GOD'S FAULT, because he DRAGGED the Israelites out of Egypt AGAINST THEIR WILL?
Mat 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
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Are these offers legitimate.....or an hoax and a fraud? Are you saying that God is a villain, there is no FREE WILL choice available, there is no COMING and no GIVING, salvation is NOT FREE, there is NO HONEST LEGITIMATE OFFER OF SALVATION, and ultimately God going to do a rug-pull and everybody goes to the lake of fire?
Rev 21:6
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
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What's next? Are you going to BLAME GOD because HE made some people thirsty and others not?
Because if you are foolish enough to do so, you would be in some very bad Satanic company.
Because THAT is the FALSE accusation of the evil one.
God is PURE GOOD, never evil, and utterly unblameable. Don't you ever forget it.
Is Jesus wrongly characterizing and then judging the children of Israel here? Who is liable? God?
Are you saying that there is NO FREE WILL, therefore Israel cannot RIGHTLY be judged, and therefore Jesus is an UNJUST judge and evil? And that all of the horrible things that happened to Israel are ultimately GOD'S FAULT, because he DRAGGED the Israelites out of Egypt AGAINST THEIR WILL?
Mat 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
===========================================================================================
Are these offers legitimate.....or an hoax and a fraud? Are you saying that God is a villain, there is no FREE WILL choice available, there is no COMING and no GIVING, salvation is NOT FREE, there is NO HONEST LEGITIMATE OFFER OF SALVATION, and ultimately God going to do a rug-pull and everybody goes to the lake of fire?
Rev 21:6
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
=========================================================================================
What's next? Are you going to BLAME GOD because HE made some people thirsty and others not?
Because if you are foolish enough to do so, you would be in some very bad Satanic company.
Because THAT is the FALSE accusation of the evil one.
God is PURE GOOD, never evil, and utterly unblameable. Don't you ever forget it.
Wow! What an awesome and edifying testimony to God's goodness, mercy, compassion, faithfulness and truthfulness. I believe every Christian -- every believer down through the centuries have had their own unique Road-to-Damascus type salvation experience. You certainly did, I know I did, Paul did and even the ancient Israelites in Egypt did after they were "baptized into Moses and the Red Sea".
Thank you so much for sharing.
Thank you so much for sharing.
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I hope @HeIsHere sees Jim's testimony and comes to accept the very Biblical FACT that God does deal
with different individuals differently, and He is by no means unfair for doing so. More it is a case of her
being ridiculous to think she is in any kind of position to pass judgment on God. What a sense of
entitlement! She could also read her Bible and keep her eyes open so she can see all the different ways
God revealed Himself to different people. Maybe squint a little to help engage and activate her free will.
Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
with different individuals differently, and He is by no means unfair for doing so. More it is a case of her
being ridiculous to think she is in any kind of position to pass judgment on God. What a sense of
entitlement! She could also read her Bible and keep her eyes open so she can see all the different ways
God revealed Himself to different people. Maybe squint a little to help engage and activate her free will.
Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
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Could Hillary Clinton CHOOSE today to receive God's forgiveness, goodness and mercy?
I mean right now......today? I mean its all over CNN.....Hillary is now a raving Bible thumper.
Or is God at fault because He did not call loudly or often enough?
I mean, she has a Bible available anywhere all the time just like everybody else. Right?
And if she persistently chooses the lie of Satan, why does God not simply lobotomize her and do her a favor?
I mean right now......today? I mean its all over CNN.....Hillary is now a raving Bible thumper.
Or is God at fault because He did not call loudly or often enough?
I mean, she has a Bible available anywhere all the time just like everybody else. Right?
And if she persistently chooses the lie of Satan, why does God not simply lobotomize her and do her a favor?
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All I have been saying for months now on various threads is that just like the physically dead have no power to do anything in temporal reality, likewise the spiritually dead have no power to make choices contrary to their evil nature. The Israelites had no power to escape from their BONDAGE to Pharaoh; likewise the unregenerate man has no power to escape from the power of sin, from the power of the devil, from this world system. Since the volition resides in the heart of man, and the hearts of men are desperately wicked, sinful and deceitful, then obviously the volition, along with the other three faculties, is corrupt. You do understand that the hearts of men are filled with evil, right? There is nothing spiritually sound in man!
Isa 1:5-6
5 Why should you be beaten anymore?
Why do you persist in rebellion?
Your whole head is injured,
your whole heart afflicted.
6 From the sole of your foot to the top of your head
there is no soundness —
only wounds and welts
and open sores,
not cleansed or bandaged
or soothed with oil.
NIV
Paul basically said the same thing more succinctly:
Rom 7:18
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh ,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
KJV
If man's heart were spiritually sound, then why does God promise in the New Covenant to give new hearts to his people?
Isa 1:5-6
5 Why should you be beaten anymore?
Why do you persist in rebellion?
Your whole head is injured,
your whole heart afflicted.
6 From the sole of your foot to the top of your head
there is no soundness —
only wounds and welts
and open sores,
not cleansed or bandaged
or soothed with oil.
NIV
Paul basically said the same thing more succinctly:
Rom 7:18
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh ,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
KJV
If man's heart were spiritually sound, then why does God promise in the New Covenant to give new hearts to his people?
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And you would be wrong. Wrong about accusing God of being evil.
UNFALLEN Adam and Eve had the free will to make bad/wrong decisions.
Decisions that led to their "death" aka separation from God.
FALLEN Adam and Eve had the free will to make good/right decisions.
Decisions that led to "life" aka "salvation" aka "reconciliation" aka "renewed fellowship" with God.
Case closed.
Deu 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
os 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
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BTW....don't let this happen to you. Wrong accusing God of being evil that is. And then hiding the true gospel message.
Mat 25:24
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
UNFALLEN Adam and Eve had the free will to make bad/wrong decisions.
Decisions that led to their "death" aka separation from God.
FALLEN Adam and Eve had the free will to make good/right decisions.
Decisions that led to "life" aka "salvation" aka "reconciliation" aka "renewed fellowship" with God.
Case closed.
Deu 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
os 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
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BTW....don't let this happen to you. Wrong accusing God of being evil that is. And then hiding the true gospel message.
Mat 25:24
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
And you would be wrong.
1Co 2:14
But the natural man receiveth G1209 not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Outline of Biblical Usage
It is obvious that this "natural man" REFUSES to "take up", "take hold of" "receive" "learn"
of HIS OWN FREE WILL. A conscious choice that has been made.
And here is the OT reference. One that NOBODY seems to understand or even care to know.
2Ki 6:5
But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water: and he cried, and said, Alas, master! for it was borrowed.
2Ki 6:6
And the man of God said, Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick, and cast it in thither; and the iron did swim.
2Ki 6:7
Therefore said he (the Man of God), Take it up to thee. And he put out his hand, and took it.
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Does @Rufus rightly understand how these passages concatenate? No.
How about @Magenta ? No.
Too bad so sad.
1Co 2:14
But the natural man receiveth G1209 not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Outline of Biblical Usage
- to take with the hand
- to take hold of, take up
- to take up, receive
- used of a place receiving one
- to receive or grant access to, a visitor, not to refuse intercourse or friendship
- to receive hospitality
- to receive into one's family to bring up or educate
- of the thing offered in speaking, teaching, instructing
- to receive favourably, give ear to, embrace, make one's own, approve, not to reject
- to receive. i.e. to take upon one's self, sustain, bear, endure
- to receive, get
- to learn
It is obvious that this "natural man" REFUSES to "take up", "take hold of" "receive" "learn"
of HIS OWN FREE WILL. A conscious choice that has been made.
And here is the OT reference. One that NOBODY seems to understand or even care to know.
2Ki 6:5
But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water: and he cried, and said, Alas, master! for it was borrowed.
2Ki 6:6
And the man of God said, Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick, and cast it in thither; and the iron did swim.
2Ki 6:7
Therefore said he (the Man of God), Take it up to thee. And he put out his hand, and took it.
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Does @Rufus rightly understand how these passages concatenate? No.
How about @Magenta ? No.
Too bad so sad.
Isaiah 1:4-5 Alas, O sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a brood of evildoers, children of depravity! They have forsaken the LORD; they have despised the Holy One of Israel and turned their backs on Him. Why do you want more beatings? Why do you keep rebelling? Your head has a massive wound, and your whole heart is afflicted.
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I don't have time to spend trying to make sense out of incoherent posts. I have another Joshua goodie for you since you didn't like the first two I provided:
Josh 24:19
19 Then Joshua said to the people, "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God.
NASB
So, Einstein, answer me this: Why did God give Israel his Law that required perfect obedience when he knew it would be impossible for them keep his commandments? Why didn't the Jews just choose to serve YHWH and keep his covenant?
Josh 24:19
19 Then Joshua said to the people, "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God.
NASB
So, Einstein, answer me this: Why did God give Israel his Law that required perfect obedience when he knew it would be impossible for them keep his commandments? Why didn't the Jews just choose to serve YHWH and keep his covenant?