What Does "Born of Water" Mean?

[Webers.Home]

.
● Gen 13:7 . . And there was quarreling between the herdsmen of Abram's
cattle and those of Lot's cattle. The Canaanites and Perizzites were then
dwelling in the land.

How do you suppose that squabbling looked to the pagans? When God's
people can't get along, outsiders become disgusted with them and they sure
won't be influenced for God in a good way when there's fighting amongst
themselves like that.

Back in the decade of the 1960s, when I was a young welder just starting out
on my own, I rented a small room in a daylight basement from a man who was
the senior pastor of a medium sized church in the Portland Oregon area. He and
his wife radiated the luster of polished spirituality whenever I spoke with them
out in the yard, but in my location under the floor of the house, I could overhear
their bitter quarrels upstairs behind closed doors. Was I favorably inclined to
take up their religion? Duh.
_

 

[Wansvic]

Not sure I fully understand your comment. The "one baptism" which is unto salvation is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Water baptism IS NOT required as part of the salvation process. The thief on the cross was not water baptized. Countless numbers of people have been "saved" under battlefield conditions through the baptism of the Holy Spirit without being water baptized. Just as many in Emergency Room/Hospital situations who repented and confessed the Name of Jesus have been saved without water baptism. There are other situations where water baptism plays no role in ones salvation.

Water baptism IS NOT, IS NOT required for salvation!!!!

The word reveals the truth. Belief accompanied by obedience to what God established brings about what He promised regardless of the traditions of men. (Mark 7:13)

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15-16

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb. 5:9

It is only through belief and obedience that eyes become open to the truth:

"As he spake these words, many believed on him.
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:30-32

 

[birdie]

A clear, precise answer to what Jesus meant concerning being born of water...

I really enjoyed when glf quoted Titus 3:5: to answer the question about what 'water' means in the verse about being born of water and the spirit.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;

Here we find water and the spirit, just as it says 'washing' and the 'holy spirit'

The verse says about salvation that because of Jesus' mercy he saved us. So that is the first thing to know. Jesus is the one who does the saving because of his mercy.

Second, the verse says that there is a 'washing of regeneration'. The 'regeneration' part means to be born again as a new person in Christ. We become a new person in that sense. The washing part means to be washed free from the stain of sin. Whereas we used to be dirty, and unclean because we were in sin and unforgiven and without hope, we suddenly became clean and without the penalty of sin because of being washed. Another way to say it is because of being forgiven. In the physical world, physical water washes us free from the stain of physical dirt. But what is meant here by the term 'water' is the forgiveness of the word of God. That is why another scripture talks about, "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word."

Water, then is a picture of the word. We read about this in Isaiah 55:1: "Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. " The gospel, the word of God comes and when a person receives it, they buy it in that sense but without physical money. They are bought with a price, the one that Jesus paid.

When we read that someone must be born of water and of the spirit in the Bible, it means that they recieve the word, the gospel (water), and they also receive the Holy Spirit. Of course this is talking about those who are saved. So, the word (water) that they receive washes them with the forgiveness that it speaks of. In Noah's day there was a flood of water. We saw in Noah's day both sides of the gospel, the water. For those who believed the gospel, there was life, forgiveness. For those that rejected the gospel, there was not and they persished because of the water, the flip side of the gospel, so to speak.
"

A clear, precise answer to what Jesus meant concerning being born of water...

 

[Lamar]

The "one baptism" which is unto salvation is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

It does not say "baptism of the Holy Spirit".

Grammarly there is no qualifier in this verse for baptism, hence there is no reason to assume a metaphysical nature.

If someone told you they were going to take a bath would you assume anything other then water?

You need this baptism to be metaphysical because of your theology not because of the honest and simple verbiage used by Paul.

 

[Magenta]

verbiage used by Paul.

Matthew 3:11 I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful
than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Isaiah 4:4 when the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed
the bloodstains from the heart of Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.

Mark 1:8 I baptize you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

Luke 3:16 John answered all of them: "I baptize you with water, but One more powerful than I will come, the
straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

 

[Lamar]

Matthew 3:11 I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful
than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Isaiah 4:4 when the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed
the bloodstains from the heart of Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.

Mark 1:8 I baptize you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

Luke 3:16 John answered all of them: "I baptize you with water, but One more powerful than I will come, the
straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

Are you attempting to prove my point? I am not sure with you.

You are simply quoting four scriptures showing qualifiers for baptism in order to distinguish between the two.

This is my point. Are you agreeing with me?

 

[Magenta]

Are you attempting to prove my point? I am not sure with you.

You are simply quoting four scriptures showing qualifiers for baptism in order to distinguish between the two.

This is my point. Are you agreeing with me?

I can be sure with you that you will not understand why I say what I do and then misrepresent me
and stubbornly refuse to admit you could be in error. You said, no reason to assume a metaphysical
nature, and talked as if only Paul used certain verbiage. I showed you it was not only Paul. In fact
the verbiage goes back to the OT and is also used in the gospels.

 

[homwardbound]

The following verse pertains to born again Christians: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;" 1 Peter 2:9

If you will recall BOTH Aaron, representative of Jesus, AND his sons had to be consecrated into the priesthood. The priestly garment was placed upon them AFTER they were washed with water (baptism) and anointed with oil. (Holy Ghost) This is a foreshadow of what is later revealed in the New Testament.

"And Moses said unto the congregation, This is the thing which the Lord commanded to be done.

And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water. And he put upon him the coat, and girded him with the girdle, and clothed him with the robe, and put the ephod upon him, and he girded him with the curious girdle of the ephod, and bound it unto him therewith.
And he put the breastplate upon him: also he put in the breastplate the Urim and the Thummim.
And he put the mitre upon his head; also upon the mitre, even upon his forefront, did he put the golden plate, the holy crown; as the Lord commanded Moses.
And Moses took the anointing oil, and anointed the tabernacle and all that was therein, and sanctified them.
And he sprinkled thereof upon the altar seven times, and anointed the altar and all his vessels, both the laver and his foot, to sanctify them.
And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron's head, and anointed him, to sanctify him.
And Moses brought Aaron's sons, and put coats upon them, and girded them with girdles, and put bonnets upon them; as the Lord commanded Moses."

"And he brought the other ram, the ram of consecration: and Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the head of the ram.
And he slew it; and Moses took of the blood of it, and put it upon the tip of Aaron's right ear, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot.
And he brought Aaron's sons, and Moses put of the blood upon the tip of their right ear, and upon the thumbs of their right hands, and upon the great toes of their right feet: and Moses sprinkled the blood upon the altar round about." (Leviticus 8:1-13, 23-24)

‘Hebrews 7:11-12
where there is a change of the priesthood, in the orde

The following verse pertains to born again Christians: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;" 1 Peter 2:9

If you will recall BOTH Aaron, representative of Jesus, AND his sons had to be consecrated into the priesthood. The priestly garment was placed upon them AFTER they were washed with water (baptism) and anointed with oil. (Holy Ghost) This is a foreshadow of what is later revealed in the New Testament.

"And Moses said unto the congregation, This is the thing which the Lord commanded to be done.

And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water. And he put upon him the coat, and girded him with the girdle, and clothed him with the robe, and put the ephod upon him, and he girded him with the curious girdle of the ephod, and bound it unto him therewith.
And he put the breastplate upon him: also he put in the breastplate the Urim and the Thummim.
And he put the mitre upon his head; also upon the mitre, even upon his forefront, did he put the golden plate, the holy crown; as the Lord commanded Moses.
And Moses took the anointing oil, and anointed the tabernacle and all that was therein, and sanctified them.
And he sprinkled thereof upon the altar seven times, and anointed the altar and all his vessels, both the laver and his foot, to sanctify them.
And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron's head, and anointed him, to sanctify him.
And Moses brought Aaron's sons, and put coats upon them, and girded them with girdles, and put bonnets upon them; as the Lord commanded Moses."

"And he brought the other ram, the ram of consecration: and Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the head of the ram.
And he slew it; and Moses took of the blood of it, and put it upon the tip of Aaron's right ear, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot.
And he brought Aaron's sons, and Moses put of the blood upon the tip of their right ear, and upon the thumbs of their right hands, and upon the great toes of their right feet: and Moses sprinkled the blood upon the altar round about." (Leviticus 8:1-13, 23-24)

Hebrews 7:11-12 change of Law, change of Priesthood
Order of Mechizadek, no more the order of Aaron

 

[SomeDisciple]

By the way so is urine.

Amniotic fluid is not water except for those who need it to be.

Or those who bother to look at the Greek text and study the ancient world.

"ὕδατος" the word accurately translated "water", interestingly enough, is also used for urine and other watery fluids.

David Bernard's arguments (which are the same canned lines blindly parroted by every UPCI member) are not half as clever as he tries to make them sound.

 

[Wansvic]

‘Hebrews 7:11-12
where there is a change of the priesthood, in the orde


Hebrews 7:11-12 change of Law, change of Priesthood
Order of Mechizadek, no more the order of Aaron

The point is the OT foreshadows antitypes presented in the NT.

 

[Webers.Home]

Here we find water and the spirit, just as it says 'washing' and the 'holy spirit'

The water about which Jesus spoke isn't for washing, rather, it's for drinking.

● John 4:13-14 . . Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but
whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I
give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

The water and the Spirit are joined at the hip because the spring of water--
the water's source --is the Spirit.

● John 7:37-39 . . If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink.
Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water
will flow from within him. By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who
believed in him were later to receive.

So I think we pretty much have to conclude that any and all card-carrying
Christians deprived of the Spirit are also deprived of the water. That is a
really, really bad situation.

● Rom 8:9 . . You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the
Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if anyone have not the Spirit of Christ, he is
none of his.
_

 

[Webers.Home]

.
When I was a neophyte back in the early part of the decade of the 1970s, I
ran across the words below embedded in Rom 8:9-16 which say:

"You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell
in you. Now if anyone have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Well; those words got me to thinking, to wit: It seemed logical to me that if
someone as significant as the Spirit of Christ were inside my body with me, I
should be able to tell; and seeing as how I was unable to tell, then I had to
assume I wasn't unified with Christ, i.e. he and I were on the outs.

So I contacted a local radio Bible teacher, who was also a senior pastor. He
invited me to his home and when we met, I explained my anxiety relative to
the consequences of not having the Spirit of Christ.

Well; he said-- in so many words --that the Spirit of Christ is supernatural
and as such is something whose presence cannot be detected by one's
natural perception.

Now the ironic thing about this is that Christians are required to seek proof
of Christ in their bodies.

● 2Cor 13:5 . . Examine yourselves, whether you're in the faith; test your
own selves. Don't you know of your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in
you, unless you're all reprobates?

That passage presents a bit of a conundrum because the Spirit of Christ is
supernatural and as such is something whose presence cannot be detected
by one's natural perception.
_

 

[Webers.Home]

.
"If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me,
as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him."
(John 7:37-39)

Don't expect to find a passage in the Old Testament that clearly, distinctly,
and directly relates to Jesus' statement about the streams of living water
because there just isn't one.

Apparently Jesus can perceive things in the Bible that are too subtle for the
rest of us to comprehend; which can be a mite frustrating at times because
quite a few Bible readers prefer information that can be quoted rather than
implied: which only goes to show that just because someone can read the
Bible doesn't necessarily mean they can understand it.
_

 

[JohnDB]

Born of water means the waters of baptism. However, baptism must be accompanied by repentance and faith or the Holy Spirit has no part of it, you're just getting wet. In baptism we die with Christ and are raised to new life; this is what is meant by "born again." Now let all the anti-baptism folks attack.

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Romans 6:1-4

I get it...
But if I may introduce some more complete details that are left out of this discussion.
First,
Nicodemus was not scared for people to know that he was a fan of Jesus. Early Night time is social hour in Israel. Calling on people to be friendly is extremely common. Daytime is for commerce and working but night time is for meal sharing and friends. Such is what Nicodemus is doing.

In a Caste based culture (what the whole world practiced and still does to some extent) the Jews categorized heroes of Israel into various sub-groups. Not exactly the same groups we use today. First came the tribe then God's classification. One was called "Born From Above" which meant that their birth was predicted by one of God's prophets before they were born. Such is Esau and Jacob, Moses, Samuel, Sampson, and others.

Water is a symbol of Laws and regulations in some form depending upon context. It can be chaotic such as Tehovm or abyss or sea or Heaven sent such as morning dew or Rain. Stored water often becomes brackish so bitter herbs are used to make it drinkable (like beer)....and the waters are bitter. Spring water and river water are sweet waters. At any rate it can be something as loose as a tradition or as binding as a capital Law from the Torah.

Torah Tehorah is a Jewish tongue twister for ceremonial cleansing a person and Paul talks about washing a person with the water of the word...for good reason.

So....where Jesus walked on the SEA/TEHOVM of Galilee (putting it under the soles of his feet and showing utter contempt for the chaotic mess of man's laws made from God's laws) its another story.

"Born of water" means someone who is living life by the Laws found in the scriptures.
Born from Above is a designation of a life placed there by God with a special purpose in mind. They have a job for God to do.

John 3 is a continuation of a theme of John's Gospel centered on parentage and children of various disciplines.

John 1 goes heavily into this. So does John 2....and it continues on for several chapters. Bene Elohim (Son of God) or "You are a child of Satan."

*Baptism not required but heavily encouraged.