Not sure exactly what you are asking in relation to "asking the Father for the Spirit" but tongues and prophecy was certainly a sign of being baptized by the Holy Spirit in those early days.
Asking the Father for his Spirit.
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Not sure exactly what you are asking in relation to "asking the Father for the Spirit" but tongues and prophecy was certainly a sign of being baptized by the Holy Spirit in those early days.
How do we get the gift to tongues? I spoke in tongues one time , but that was a dream like when I was 17 and never again,
.
Mozart composed some amazing music; but had he not arranged the components
sensibly, it would likely grate on people's nerves instead of entertaining them; sort of like
when an orchestra verifies the pitch of its instruments just prior to a performance. The
discordant din that the orchestra makes is a cacophony instead of a rhapsody.
● 1Cor 14:7 . . Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or
harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the
notes?
Modern tonguers typically don't compose anything pleasant to the ear. At least if they
would chirp like birds their speech would be a discernible song instead of an
unintelligible squawk.
I was informed by a Charismatic friend that he prayed in a tongue because he couldn't
express his deepest feelings any other way. Mind you this was an American adult of
almost fifty years old; educated in America and spoke, wrote, and read English-- his
native language --his entire life. So I asked him how it is that his command of English
was so poor that he could only express his thoughts in a language that not even he
himself could either identify or understand?
● 1Cor 14:14-15 . . If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So
what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with
my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.
In other words: there are Christians out and about blabbering incoherently because they
choose to, not because they have to. With just a simple act of their own will they could
easily switch to speaking with real words.
Why on earth would a grown-up prefer incoherent blabbering? Isn't that the way small
children communicate? Well, I can excuse small children because they're uneducated.
But shouldn't supposed educated adults be just a bit more mature with their language
and grammar than small children?
The true gift of tongues is very handy for communicating with foreigners. But in our day
and age, Charismatics typically don't communicate with anybody, either foreign or
domestic . As a result, Charismatics are looked upon with the same disdain as the
kooks that hurl themselves on the floor, fainting, screaming, writhing, shouting, and
dancing with rattlesnakes.
Well; not too many sensible people care to accommodate kooks, so if you're serious
about influencing people for Christ, I highly recommend sticking to an intelligible
language. Here in my country, English is a good choice because most people can
understand it without requiring the services of a translator.
And for heaven's sake, please do not allow yourself to be drawn to participating in a
tongues meeting.
● 1Cor 14:23 . . So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in
tongues, and some who do not understand, or some unbelievers come in, will they not
say that you are out of your mind?
_
Mozart composed some amazing music; but had he not arranged the components
sensibly, it would likely grate on people's nerves instead of entertaining them; sort of like
when an orchestra verifies the pitch of its instruments just prior to a performance. The
discordant din that the orchestra makes is a cacophony instead of a rhapsody.
● 1Cor 14:7 . . Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or
harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the
notes?
Modern tonguers typically don't compose anything pleasant to the ear. At least if they
would chirp like birds their speech would be a discernible song instead of an
unintelligible squawk.
I was informed by a Charismatic friend that he prayed in a tongue because he couldn't
express his deepest feelings any other way. Mind you this was an American adult of
almost fifty years old; educated in America and spoke, wrote, and read English-- his
native language --his entire life. So I asked him how it is that his command of English
was so poor that he could only express his thoughts in a language that not even he
himself could either identify or understand?
● 1Cor 14:14-15 . . If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So
what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with
my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.
In other words: there are Christians out and about blabbering incoherently because they
choose to, not because they have to. With just a simple act of their own will they could
easily switch to speaking with real words.
Why on earth would a grown-up prefer incoherent blabbering? Isn't that the way small
children communicate? Well, I can excuse small children because they're uneducated.
But shouldn't supposed educated adults be just a bit more mature with their language
and grammar than small children?
The true gift of tongues is very handy for communicating with foreigners. But in our day
and age, Charismatics typically don't communicate with anybody, either foreign or
domestic . As a result, Charismatics are looked upon with the same disdain as the
kooks that hurl themselves on the floor, fainting, screaming, writhing, shouting, and
dancing with rattlesnakes.
Well; not too many sensible people care to accommodate kooks, so if you're serious
about influencing people for Christ, I highly recommend sticking to an intelligible
language. Here in my country, English is a good choice because most people can
understand it without requiring the services of a translator.
And for heaven's sake, please do not allow yourself to be drawn to participating in a
tongues meeting.
● 1Cor 14:23 . . So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in
tongues, and some who do not understand, or some unbelievers come in, will they not
say that you are out of your mind?
_
.
● 1Cor 14:22a . .Tongues are for a sign
The sign isn't intended for the benefit of believers, but rather, for non-believers.
● 1Cor 14:22b . . Not to them that believe, but to them that believe not.
The purpose of any tongue is communication.
● 1Cor 14:9 . . Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone
know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.
So if a tonguer is speaking a language nobody understands, they've actually created a
barrier to communication; viz: a regression to the tower of Babel; and you can see for
yourself how destructive that was to unity (Gen 11:1-9).
* Webster's defines "regression" as: movement backward to a previous, and especially
worse or more primitive state or condition; viz: backwards thinking.
Since tongues are for the benefit of unbelievers, then it's de facto that a tongue should
be a valid language that the unbeliever himself speaks and understands (cf. Acts 2:4
11). Somebody who exercises a tongue for any other reason has missed the point; and
they're behaving like a little kid with a toy.
● 1Cor 14:20 . . Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be childish, but in
your thinking be adults.
_
● 1Cor 14:22a . .Tongues are for a sign
The sign isn't intended for the benefit of believers, but rather, for non-believers.
● 1Cor 14:22b . . Not to them that believe, but to them that believe not.
The purpose of any tongue is communication.
● 1Cor 14:9 . . Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone
know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.
So if a tonguer is speaking a language nobody understands, they've actually created a
barrier to communication; viz: a regression to the tower of Babel; and you can see for
yourself how destructive that was to unity (Gen 11:1-9).
* Webster's defines "regression" as: movement backward to a previous, and especially
worse or more primitive state or condition; viz: backwards thinking.
Since tongues are for the benefit of unbelievers, then it's de facto that a tongue should
be a valid language that the unbeliever himself speaks and understands (cf. Acts 2:4
11). Somebody who exercises a tongue for any other reason has missed the point; and
they're behaving like a little kid with a toy.
● 1Cor 14:20 . . Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be childish, but in
your thinking be adults.
_
It was a gift given by God used to show unbelieving Jews they were in error, yet even so, they would not learn.
It is not a gift given today for this is the time of the Gentiles. Verse 21 is a quote from Isaiah 28:11.
1Cor.14:21&22
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Like any of the gifts, it is something God in His wisdom gave according to His own discretion. One doesn't get to pick and choose the gift one is given.
But we can ask for it right? I mean, like you said,, it's a gift. and I would like that gift; God willing.
You won't get that gift because it is no longer needed. It was a sign to the unbelieving Jews they were about to suffer the ultimate discipline and be dispersed again among the Gentile nations which culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.
The gifts were given for the building up of the Church, not for personal edification, so I see no point in asking as we don't know within ourselves what gift is best suited to our personality and circumstances but the Lord God does. He gives as He sees fit. I must also ask myself, is asking for a gift a measure of distrust and desire for personal glory? Just a thought.
1 Peter 4:10
As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
Whatever gift we have, we have it by the grace of God and we are to use our gifts for the benefit of others, not ourselves.
.
Quite a bit of Christianity requires the practice of love ( a.k.a. charity)
Paul said to earnestly desire the best gifts. Well; I would certainly put love
right up there among the best of the best because love is an effective cure
for misogyny and misandry.
_
Quite a bit of Christianity requires the practice of love ( a.k.a. charity)
Paul said to earnestly desire the best gifts. Well; I would certainly put love
right up there among the best of the best because love is an effective cure
for misogyny and misandry.
_
Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? (Acts 19) Paul's question reveals the Holy Ghost is not automatically received upon belief. The Samaritan account confirms this as well. (Acts 8:12-17)
All detailed conversion accounts indicate outward evidence accompanied the experience of being filled with the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2-4, 8:15-18, 10:45-46, 19:6-7)
Paul's question reveals the Holy Ghost is not instantaneously received upon belief; "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" (Acts 19:1-7) The Samaritan account confirms this as well. (Acts 8:12-17) The accounts also reveal there is outward evidence with people are filled with the Holy Ghost.
Thank you for sharing. I mistakenly thought to quench was to willingly hold back not to actually extinguish.
The Samaritan account is one that addresses the misconception that the Holy Ghost is immediately received upon being baptized in water. (Acts 19 touches on this as well)
"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women...
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. Acts 8:12-17
Scripture reveals speaking in tongues is the evidence a person has been filled with the Spirit. (Acts 2:4,33; 8:12-18 implied; 10:43-48; 19:1-7) However, not all operate in the spiritual gift of tongues that requires interpretation for the edification of the church body.
People are still being added to the church and will continue to do so until Jesus returns. Receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Ghost is still required. And the evidence remains the same as it did on the Day of Pentecost; believers speak in tongues. In addition, the flow of the Spirit via spiritual gifts is still in operation to assist in ministering the truth to others.
.
Misogyny was given quite a bit of negative press during former US President
Donald Trump's administration; while misandry was condoned as if it were
acceptable. But malice is unacceptable with God on any level; and I think we
have to agree to the possibility that there are just as many, if not more,
man haters in Hell as there are woman haters because women are not a
protected species with God; nor is their gender a mitigating factor. They will
be judged solely on the basis of their lives the same as men.
● Rom 2:9-11. .There will be trouble and distress for every human being
who does evil: For God does not show favoritism.
* The disturbing scene depicted at Rev 20:11-15 will be presided over by
none other than the man who came among us as a sweet little babe in
swaddling clothes.
● John 5:21-23 . . Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all
judgment to the Son
● Acts 17:31 . . He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice
by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by
raising him from the dead.
I would very much dislike to be a woman infected with misandry because in
the end, it will be a "toxic male" that dooms man-hating women and thus
permanently ruin any chances they might have had for happiness in the
future. For all eternity, those hostile females will grind their teeth with hot
tears and clenched-fist fury that they ultimately lost out on everything
because of one lone man's obsessive control over their lives. Hell is bad
enough as it is, but I would imagine that existing there seething with rage
makes one's circumstances a hell within the Hell.
Well; one of the benefits of the Spirit's ministry among folks unified with
Christ during our day is love.
● Gal 5:23 . .The fruit of the Spirit is love
There are women out and about faced with the prospect of hating men on
the other side just as strongly as they hate men on this side. Well that
simply won't do. Those man-hating females have got to reach out to Christ
now, while the offer is on the table, and get that hatred addressed so that
when they leave this life, they'll not end up on the wrong side of things.
● Matt 11:28-30 . . Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I
will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am
gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my
yoke is easy and my burden is light.
_
Misogyny was given quite a bit of negative press during former US President
Donald Trump's administration; while misandry was condoned as if it were
acceptable. But malice is unacceptable with God on any level; and I think we
have to agree to the possibility that there are just as many, if not more,
man haters in Hell as there are woman haters because women are not a
protected species with God; nor is their gender a mitigating factor. They will
be judged solely on the basis of their lives the same as men.
● Rom 2:9-11. .There will be trouble and distress for every human being
who does evil: For God does not show favoritism.
* The disturbing scene depicted at Rev 20:11-15 will be presided over by
none other than the man who came among us as a sweet little babe in
swaddling clothes.
● John 5:21-23 . . Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all
judgment to the Son
● Acts 17:31 . . He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice
by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by
raising him from the dead.
I would very much dislike to be a woman infected with misandry because in
the end, it will be a "toxic male" that dooms man-hating women and thus
permanently ruin any chances they might have had for happiness in the
future. For all eternity, those hostile females will grind their teeth with hot
tears and clenched-fist fury that they ultimately lost out on everything
because of one lone man's obsessive control over their lives. Hell is bad
enough as it is, but I would imagine that existing there seething with rage
makes one's circumstances a hell within the Hell.
Well; one of the benefits of the Spirit's ministry among folks unified with
Christ during our day is love.
● Gal 5:23 . .The fruit of the Spirit is love
There are women out and about faced with the prospect of hating men on
the other side just as strongly as they hate men on this side. Well that
simply won't do. Those man-hating females have got to reach out to Christ
now, while the offer is on the table, and get that hatred addressed so that
when they leave this life, they'll not end up on the wrong side of things.
● Matt 11:28-30 . . Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I
will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am
gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my
yoke is easy and my burden is light.
_
Except these disciples were not believing in Jesus Christ because they had not heard the Gospel (Acts 19). As for the Acts 8 crowd, at least one was not believing and whose heart was not right with God. Is this why the Lord held out on His promise and waited on the arrival of Peter and John, two disciples who knew the lord better as they were quite often privy to things the other disciples were not?
Prior to Pentecost, believers did not automatically receive the Holy Spirit which is why Jesus said one could ask. The reason for this is because Jesus had not been glorified.
John 7:38&39
38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Jesus promised to send the Spirit upon His departure and the Lord always keeps His promise. If one has not heard or believed the Gospel then one does not receive the Spirit.
There was an expectation of receiving the Spirit on believing the Gospel as Paul points out in Acts 19.
Acts 19:2
he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
... and Peter in Acts 2
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The question remains, if one does not receive the Spirit when they believe, are they truly believing the Gospel or do they even know what the Gospel is?
As far as signs and wonders accompanying the baptism of the Spirit, we must remember when God does a new thing, signs and wonders are prolific. The Exodus or Christ's ministry for example and now He is establishing the Church so, it is not surprising to see bold and amazing things happen. This is not to say these things cannot happen nowadays but the one thing common to all believers is a changed life. This is the greatest sign of God's work in pouring out the Spirit.
Speaking in tongues was given to reveal to unbelieving Jews they had rejected their Messiah. It is no longer necessary today as Israel was judged for their rejection (the fall of Jerusalem) and now wait for the end times when the Lord will restore them.
1Cor.14:20-22
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
21 In the law it is written:
“With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”
says the Lord.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
Paul makes it clear the purpose of tongues was for unbelievers. It is a sign gift which, means it is pointing to something as that is what signs do.
I have asked for the gift of the Holy Spirit too, and then prayed to be filled and to give a full measure back. I seem, at times, to have a problem of giving a full measure back though.
but there remain Christians who can speak in tongues today. I don't believe what you are saying is quite accurate.
