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Let me just point out the irony of your post if that's okay?
Ephesians was written before The Revelation. You're implying The Revelation should likewise be discounted because "You don't build foundations all up the building, they are laid once only."
Absurd.
While I don't care what people say about me, I do very greatly dislike when people say God cannot do what He wants. If He wants to make me a prophet and send me out to prophesy, who in the world do you think you are to tell Him otherwise? Because you interpret His Word in a way that suits your biases and personal theology, you think God is bound by the limits you set upon Him? You do not get to control Him or put Him in your theological box. Our Lord Jesus Christ is UNLIMITED in power, "Behold, I have been given all authority in Heaven and on Earth." He will do as it pleases Him, whatever you may say or think. And you know what? Even if it is written, you're understanding it with your human limitations in a physical world. He is the Master of the unseen spiritual realm as well.
Ephesians was written before The Revelation. You're implying The Revelation should likewise be discounted because "You don't build foundations all up the building, they are laid once only."
Absurd.
While I don't care what people say about me, I do very greatly dislike when people say God cannot do what He wants. If He wants to make me a prophet and send me out to prophesy, who in the world do you think you are to tell Him otherwise? Because you interpret His Word in a way that suits your biases and personal theology, you think God is bound by the limits you set upon Him? You do not get to control Him or put Him in your theological box. Our Lord Jesus Christ is UNLIMITED in power, "Behold, I have been given all authority in Heaven and on Earth." He will do as it pleases Him, whatever you may say or think. And you know what? Even if it is written, you're understanding it with your human limitations in a physical world. He is the Master of the unseen spiritual realm as well.
Your inability to comprehend what I wrote is fascinating.
It is clear you don't understand the difference between being prophetic and being a prophet. I told you what the word of God says and you claim I'm saying what He can and can't do? He said they laid the foundation, not me. You're the one who seems to think God doesn't know how to build, that He has to keep on laying foundation after foundation.
So be it. You have been informed.
Have a nice day.
It is clear you don't understand the difference between being prophetic and being a prophet. I told you what the word of God says and you claim I'm saying what He can and can't do? He said they laid the foundation, not me. You're the one who seems to think God doesn't know how to build, that He has to keep on laying foundation after foundation.
So be it. You have been informed.
Have a nice day.
But you just got through saying they will cease when the perfect comes which you think is Christ. Are you confused or trying to confuse the rest of us?
That's the way with tongues..
He needs an interpreter!!!!!!
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But you just got through saying they will cease when the perfect comes, which you think is Christ. Are you confused or trying to confuse the rest of us?
When it will stop the gifts of the Holy Spirit, I don't know. if they will continue during the Tribulation, I don't know. I would be dishonest to say I do. But what I see in the text is nothing to state that right now today, they have stopped. The Perfect has not come yet.
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I hope you don't feel bad. It's good that you acknowledge and appreciate all the God can and still does in terms of such gifts. You actually have more riches than they do because of that. Remember:
Matthew 13:58 And he [Jesus] did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
So they're the ones who are actually missing out!
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Thank you. I am not mad or feel bad. I am fully convinced God has not changed, and His word is True. I want to ensure those young believers see a clear defense of an experience that is for today, and the narratives that they have stopped and not for today are nowhere in the word of God.
I am fully convinced God has not changed, and His word is True. I want to ensure those young believers see a clear defense of an experience that is for today, and the narratives that they have stopped and not for today are nowhere in the word of God.-
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The word 'perfect' was written in the neuter gender. Not masculine gender.
So now?! Is Christ 'woke'?
The perfect is some 'thing.' Not, someone.
You really have to be more careful.
And, become more educated in sound doctrine.
Strong misguided emotion (typical Pentecostal) makes one's dogmatic assumption into shooting oneself in his foot.
So now?! Is Christ 'woke'?
The perfect is some 'thing.' Not, someone.
You really have to be more careful.
And, become more educated in sound doctrine.
Strong misguided emotion (typical Pentecostal) makes one's dogmatic assumption into shooting oneself in his foot.
You are not looking at the full context of Paul's letter and the narrative that is seen throughout the whole Epistle.
The word Perfect in 1corinthians chapter 13 has no context without what is said below it, above, and throughout the book. Face to face
And if you read verse 12
For now, we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
They Perfect means mature in the Greek; the word is teleios
We see the work used in chapter two of 1Corthians verse 4-6
What is the perfect that is or has come? You don’t make that assumption in that one verse. We must read on and see if there is more said. Yes, there is. Verse 12 says
. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Face to face is saying:
Prosōpon “the front of the human head” or person
“BUT Then I shall know” (epiginōskō ) by sight, hearing, of certain signs, to perceive who a person is
“even as I am known” to become thoroughly acquainted with, to know thoroughly.
Clearly, that which is perfect has not yet come. Or Paul would not have continued in chapter 14 about gifts that should have stopped.
I believe the text in 1cor 13 is speaking more about the glorification believer when we go to Christ or when he comes as 1cor chapter 15 says
51 Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O[n] Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
51 Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O[n] Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
Clearly you miss the point. The "Perfect" is not masculine. It would have been very easy for Paul to write "but when the Christ comes", but he did not.
The context is not Christ, the context is knowledge and prophecy. At the time of writing these things were imperfect, ie. not complete. When did these things become complete? For knowledge and prophecy? When John wrote Revelation and as it was disseminated those gifts gradually faded out just as Paul said. The word used is katargēthēsontai is means to fade away, to die out gradually. Tongues, on the other hand uses the word pausontai which means to stop suddenly and that happened at 70AD when the warning (which was the purpose of tongues), that Israel was rejecting it's Messiah, had ended. Tongues are for unbelievers.
The text says, at the time Paul wrote, the knowledge and prophetic utterance regarding this new way which Christ had established, was still partial but when these things are complete, then they will be done away with. To read it any other way, one must force into it a commentary that is not there.
1Cor.13:8-10
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
I understand you don't want to believe because you have a vested interest in speaking in tongues. You think you will be robbed of something if you give it away. I assure you, their use is holding you back.
The context is not Christ, the context is knowledge and prophecy. At the time of writing these things were imperfect, ie. not complete. When did these things become complete? For knowledge and prophecy? When John wrote Revelation and as it was disseminated those gifts gradually faded out just as Paul said. The word used is katargēthēsontai is means to fade away, to die out gradually. Tongues, on the other hand uses the word pausontai which means to stop suddenly and that happened at 70AD when the warning (which was the purpose of tongues), that Israel was rejecting it's Messiah, had ended. Tongues are for unbelievers.
The text says, at the time Paul wrote, the knowledge and prophetic utterance regarding this new way which Christ had established, was still partial but when these things are complete, then they will be done away with. To read it any other way, one must force into it a commentary that is not there.
1Cor.13:8-10
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
I understand you don't want to believe because you have a vested interest in speaking in tongues. You think you will be robbed of something if you give it away. I assure you, their use is holding you back.