The rapture? The comimg of Christ.

[Randy4u2c]

A large number of Christians have been exposed to this "dispensationalist" or "futurist" interpretation of prophecy called the secret rapture, and have been hopelessly confused.

According to this view, the coming of Jesus will be in two separate events. First, He will come secretly to take the church to heaven, and then, seven years later, He will come in an open demonstration of power and glory. In between those two events, the Antichrist is supposed to come into power and the great tribulation period takes place.

But the truth is that the Bible nowhere speaks of these two separate comings of Jesus. There is no second stage of His second coming that occurs seven years after the socalled "rapture." By the way, that word "rapture" is also an invention of theologians. It can't be found in the Bible in even a single instance. It is a word coined for the second advent of Jesus.

Now here is what we find in the Scriptures: Christ's coming, the resurrection, and catching up of the saints to meet Jesus in the air, all take place at the same time, at the end of the world. This is why Jesus said, "Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world" (Matthew 28:20). Now why would Jesus promise to be with the church until the end of the world if He intended to come seven years before the end to take them out of the world? The promise would have no meaning.

What is the secret rapture? It is when Satan comes to earth claiming to be God and performing great signs and wonders and deceives the people into worshipping him as God. He will tell them that he has come to fly them away to heaven which is a doctrine they have already been taught to believe. II Thes 2:3-4, Rev 12:7-9, Rev 13:11-14. The real Christ doesn't return until AFTER the tribulation of Antichrist, Satan pretending to be God.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ 2Th2:1-2 tells us:

2Th 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by [G5228 - huper / hyper] the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled/alarmed, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that/purpoting that the day of the Lord IS PRESENT [perfect indicative].



This passage ^ (verses 1 and 2) is evidence that what Post #122 (just above this post) is not biblically accurate.





["the day of the Lord" commences at the ARRIVAL-point-in-time of the "7-yr period" leading UP TO Christ's Second Coming to the earth. It doesn't start at the point of His Return / 2nd Coming to the earth! The "false claim" of verse two is "purporting that" the TRIB has already started and was unfolding upon the earth; Paul is BRINGING verse 1's info TO BEAR UPON such a "false claim"]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

as that/purpoting that

TYPO [EDIT-time is too short, lol]: "purporting"

 

[Blade]

What is the secret rapture? It is when Satan comes to earth claiming to be God and performing great signs and wonders and deceives the people into worshipping him as God. He will tell them that he has come to fly them away to heaven which is a doctrine they have already been taught to believe. II Thes 2:3-4, Rev 12:7-9, Rev 13:11-14. The real Christ doesn't return until AFTER the tribulation of Antichrist, Satan pretending to be God.

I've heard this one. The problem here is its not written. If we think about this.. it wouldn't be the pre-trib doctrine because once the AntiChrist shows up.. pre-Trib had already happened and those still there were left behind. We can't forget the beast during that time demands the world to worship him and take his mark or die. Yeah I don't see the Antichrist telling anyone hes there to take them away. No.. hes there because as he will tell them.. he is god. Which Israel and Muslims are waiting for. Then during all this we have Gods wrath that is on the world and all in it. Then we read how many die? How much is on fire how about the seas? There never has been a time like that on earth nor ever will be again. And some believe they will be here during all that.

Fact.. today? Right now if your thinking your going to be here.. today is like heaven. It will not get better then this. So I don't know some think they will be protected that is not written what is "It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. " Yeah he will have "authority" from God over every tribe, tongue and nation.

It does make one wonder.. what happen greater is He that is in me then he thats in the world.. Christ saying I give you all power all authority over the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you. If you are still here.. don't you have the king of kings in you? He will over come the saints.. and no where does it say He protected them the Church. Church is not written during this time. Now 144K they are protected and you and I are not one of them.. hmm its almost as if just before the antichrist comes and He is taking out of the way.. its as if things have changed. What was .. will be again. What do I know.. I am ready NOW

 

[Scribe]

1. Satan is the Antichrist aka the man of sin
2. Yes God uses Satan to bring judgment. But ultimately it is Satan attacking the saints.

That Wicked is only one of the judgments. The entire series is the Threshing, and the dispossesing of the earth of its unlawful inhabitants in anticipation of handing it to the saints. There are several threshings. They are all from the Lamb.

 

[Scribe]

Not following your thought process.

It sounds like you are thinking that the Great Tribulation is all about the antichrist. It is much more. There are many judgments from God and these are all how the "Threshing" of the field is carried out. The symbolism of an angel thrusting a threshing instrument into a field is not what the wicked see. They experience the many judgments poured out in a series and one of them is the antichrist, but there are many more. The war on the saints by the Antichrist is not the only judgment. It is God pouring out the judgments and so it is the threshing in the symbolism spelled out as to how it actually happens. In the end the tares are separated and burned. The wheat are spared. The entire process could be = Rapture, (protected from harm) > Judgments on the wicked during the Great Tribulation one of them being That Wicked but many others directly from God like hail, plagues, etc (which answers to the burning of the bundles of tares) and then the earth is handed to the saints for 1000 years to reign with Christ. There is nothing about that bundling of tares to be burned (in the Tribulation) and gathering the wheat into barns before the Tribulation that contradicts a pretrib view. It is no straining of text to see it that way. It is straining of the text to insist that the bundles are burned BEFORE the wheat is gathered into barns as that is not an idea that the original hearers would have had from the symbolism. In my humble opinion. I could be wrong.

 

[rrcn]

Maybe this link will shed a little more light on the subject.
https://www.peacefinders.org/Futurism

 

[cv5]

they are very touchy about Israel around here.

Jesus God is far more touchy.

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

Revelation 7 9,14
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The saints came out of great tribulation which mean the saints were in great tribulation. Which makes the pre tribulation doctrine false.

"I saw the souls of them" again.

Revelation 6 9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The little season is when Satan is loosed which is the start of the Great Tribulation.

Revelation 20:2,3
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Therefore this makes the two 1000 years two different 1000 years in Revelation 20.

 

[Publican]

Jesus God is far more touchy.

Israel is not what you think it is. I'm sorry you can't see this. But more and more Spirit led believers are coning to this reality every day. The dispensational veil is being lifted. Unfortunately it will be too late. Billions will die, and scripture will truly be fulfilled. My people perish for a lack of knowledge.

 

[Publican]

Revelation 7 9,14
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The saints came out of great tribulation which mean the saints were in great tribulation. Which makes the pre tribulation doctrine false.

"I saw the souls of them" again.

Revelation 6 9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The little season is when Satan is loosed which is the start of the Great Tribulation.

Revelation 20:2,3
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Therefore this makes the two 1000 years two different 1000 years in Revelation 20.

Are you saying here that you believe we are in the little season?

This is my view. I have many reasons for this. The fact that there has been a tsunami of propaganda to convince me of the opposing view, is definitely amongst them.

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

Are you saying here that you believe we are in the little season?

This is my view. I have many reasons for this. The fact that there has been a tsunami of propaganda to convince me of the opposing view, is definitely amongst them.

Yes, we are in the little season which is the great tribulation. The great tribulation is a spiritual tribulation that mimics the fall and destruction of Judah and Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar.

 

[Stokie]

If the Antichrist cannot be revealed until the restrainer is taken out of the way, who is the restrainer ?

 

[rrcn]

If the Antichrist cannot be revealed until the restrainer is taken out of the way, who is the restrainer ?

Could you put your question into context? What is the Biblical reference?

 

[cv5]

Israel is not what you think it is. I'm sorry you can't see this. But more and more Spirit led believers are coning to this reality every day. The dispensational veil is being lifted. Unfortunately it will be too late. Billions will die, and scripture will truly be fulfilled. My people perish for a lack of knowledge.

There you go buddy. Is this ever going to happen?

"The occupation prisoners will not return unless the aggression on Gaza stops, there is a complete withdrawal from [Gaza], and our prisoners are released from the prisons," Hayya declared. "Hamas will continue until the establishment of the Palestinian state on all Palestinian soil with Jerusalem as its capital."

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ows-intensify-gaza-fight-face-ceasefire-calls

 

[Stokie]

Could you put your question into context? What is the Biblical reference?

“For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.”
‭‭II Thessalonians‬ ‭2‬:‭7‬-‭8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/114/2th.2.7-8.NKJV

Here we are told the restrainer is keeping lawlessness at bay. Once the restrained is taken out of the way then the lawless one ( Antichrist ) will be revealed. So who is the restrainer ?

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

If the Antichrist cannot be revealed until the restrainer is taken out of the way, who is the restrainer ?

Holy Spirit.

 

[Randy4u2c]

Could you put your question into context? What is the Biblical reference?

The restrainer is Michael.

 

[MeowFlower]

Rather than argue why not wait and see?
Different versions of Gods word is the first clue man dabbles in what we have no business thinking to control.

God is The Word.
And Yeshus,Emmanuel,Jesus,as he is called by many and different names was The Word made flesh who dwelt among us. It would have been glorious to witness that in person.

Meanwhile, why not live as an example of Holy Spirit within? There's an old quote I'll paraphrase here.

We may be the only Bible some people ever see.

What version are you? Those reading.
Does it make Yeshua,Emmanuel, Jesus,God, proud?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

If the Antichrist cannot be revealed until the restrainer is taken out of the way, who is the restrainer ?

II Thessalonians‬ ‭2‬:‭7‬-‭8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/114/2th.2.7-8.NKJV

Here we are told the restrainer is keeping lawlessness at bay. Once the restrained is taken out of the way then the lawless one ( Antichrist ) will be revealed. So who is the restrainer ?

One helpful tip is to... follow the "grammar" of the text. Notice the THREE TIMES that the word "revealed" [re: the man of sin] is used in this context. I made a post quite some time back, using the [info taken from a] "color-coded GRAMMAR [-chart]"... which I found helpful:

Post #290 - https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-your-best-proof-for-a-pre-trib-rapture.188798/post-4095977






Thoughts on this?







[P.S. after viewing that Post #290... see further info in Post #289, just before it]