The hatred of Jews

PennEd · Oct 23, 2024

Wow!

Taking God's greatest achievement, the redemption of mankind through the Sacrifice of His Only Son, and calling it an abomination!

Just awful. Heretical. Explains her warped Biblical interpretations, and hatred of the Jews to Boot.

John 10:18

New King James Version

18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

HeIsHere · Oct 23, 2024

In Mark’s narrative it is the execution of the Messiah through the deliberate conspiracy of the Jewish religious leaders that is the “abomination that causes desolation.”

God views the actions of these leaders as an abomination and this valuation calls for a stern response, namely desolation that occurs because of destruction.

While our sensitivities regarding anti-Semitism always raise caution lest we overstate matters, in the course of this Gospel’s narrative the theme of judgment against Israel’s leaders who reject Jesus cannot be denied.

Jesus prophesies the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple (13:2). His reference to the “abomination that causes desolation” (13:14) is a prophetic statement regarding the significance of His death in the light of his rejection as Messiah by the Jewish religious leaders. This is a strong statement by Jesus, but not out of line with other similar warnings of judgment that occur consistently in the Second Temple literature, as one segment of Israel considers itself the true covenant people of God and condemns other segments within Israel for behaviour that contravenes this covenant and brings upon itself God’s judgment.
Larry J. Perkins PhD

Dude653 · Oct 23, 2024

HeIsHere said:

I do not have data on that

PennEd · Oct 23, 2024

HeIsHere said:

This is complete made up nonsense and severe twisting of Scripture.

NOWHERE does Jesus say HIS Death, the Cross, or anything the Jewish leadership did was the abomination that causes desolation.

THAT occurs IN THE TEMPLE, NOT on Golgotha.
The plan of the Cross was made BEFORE the foundation of the world. Paul goes pretty hard against those that make themselves "enemies of the Cross".

Of course this MUST be twisted by amils to fit their very erroneous doctrine.

Everyone would have thought that the jig is up, the amils were critically wrong, when David Ben Gurion, on May 14th 1948, reading from Ezekiel, declared the state of Israel was in existence again.

But no. The Jew hatred runs so deep, they had to come up with a new narrative. That the Jews living in the state of Israel aren't really Jews.

EVEN as the whole world lines up against them today, these stiff necked people STILL refuse to believe that Scripture must not be taken as allegory unless stated by the author.

To be crystal clear again, Jesus NEVER refers to His Death as an abomination, and doesn't even charge them with killing Him.

Ya know, "Father, forgive them..."

ThereRoseaLamb · Oct 23, 2024

PennEd said:

This is complete made up nonsense and severe twisting of Scripture.

NOWHERE does Jesus say HIS Death, the Cross, or anything the Jewish leadership did was the abomination that causes desolation.

THAT occurs IN THE TEMPLE, NOT on Golgotha.
The plan of the Cross was made BEFORE the foundation of the world. Paul goes pretty hard against those that make themselves "enemies of the Cross".

Of course this MUST be twisted by amils to fit their very erroneous doctrine.

Everyone would have thought that the jig is up, the amils were critically wrong, when David Ben Gurion, on May 14th 1948, reading from Ezekiel, declared the state of Israel was in existence again.
But no. The Jew hatred runs so deep, they had to come up with a new narrative. That the Jews living in the state of Israel aren't really Jews.

EVEN as the whole world lines up against them today, these stiff necked people STILL refuse to believe that Scripture must not be taken as allegory unless stated by the author.

To be crystal claer again, Jesus NEVER refers to His Death as an abomination, and doesn't even charge them with killing Him.

Ya know, "Father, forgive them..."

Right, 100 % correct!! That's what happens when people don't know when to take the Word literally or not.

Dude653 · Oct 23, 2024

HeIsHere said:

In Mark’s narrative it is the execution of the Messiah through the deliberate conspiracy of the Jewish religious leaders that is the “abomination that causes desolation.”

God views the actions of these leaders as an abomination and this valuation calls for a stern response, namely desolation that occurs because of destruction.

While our sensitivities regarding anti-Semitism always raise caution lest we overstate matters, in the course of this Gospel’s narrative the theme of judgment against Israel’s leaders who reject Jesus cannot be denied.

Jesus prophesies the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple (13:2). His reference to the “abomination that causes desolation” (13:14) is a prophetic statement regarding the significance of His death in the light of his rejection as Messiah by the Jewish religious leaders. This is a strong statement by Jesus, but not out of line with other similar warnings of judgment that occur consistently in the Second Temple literature, as one segment of Israel considers itself the true covenant people of God and condemns other segments within Israel for behaviour that contravenes this covenant and brings upon itself God’s judgment.
Larry J. Perkins PhD

Destruction of Israel? They'll turn Gaza into a parking lot before that happens

HeIsHere · Oct 23, 2024

Dude653 said:

This scripture is about ancient times, already fulfilled.

On the present moment, there are more than two players in this conflict.

Dude653 · Oct 23, 2024

HeIsHere said:

Israel has nukes and the most advanced Air Force in the world

Magenta · Oct 23, 2024

The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (A Comprehensive History)

Filmed in 2021, this predates the current conflicts from 2023.

HeIsHere · Oct 23, 2024

Dude653 said:

Yes let's put is all to the test and see who wins.
I know some people think God is overjoyed by all this violence and death.

Dude653 · Oct 23, 2024

HeIsHere said:

I think we all hope it comes to an end soon but Israel has the capability to bleep someone up if it comes to that, not to mention the most powerful military in the world on their side which is America

GaryA · Oct 24, 2024

HeIsHere said:

Lord willing, I will eventually get around to responding to your post...?

Things have been a bit wearisome as of late...

ThereRoseaLamb · Oct 24, 2024

Magenta said:

And there's the man the knows. He's quick as a whip too. But he's Jewish so he will be ignored by the other side here for certain.

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Oct 24, 2024

Magenta said:

Good summation. Plus we already know how it ends. Israel will stay for the rest of forever and be blesssed according to God's promises to them, and the Muslims will lose the control over it completely.

🍉

HeIsHere · Oct 24, 2024

GaryA said:

No worries, there is no rush at all.

I am wanting to understand why you, yourself support this historicist perspective and why you think it works Biblically.

Dispensationalism, it is obvious why people accept it, it was pushed completely via the pulpit and churches initially,

The historicist position is different I think, it requires a person seeking it out since I agree it not a "pulpit doctrine" but has history and scholarship behind it.

HeIsHere · Oct 24, 2024

Dude653 said:

I would say that the other countries if/when combined can be a formidable power.
Did you notice Ukraine is loosing the war slowly but surely.

Moses_Young · Oct 24, 2024

cv5 said:

You are exhibiting behaviour known in psychology as projection. Nevertheless, for those who are seeking truth rather than pretending to:

https://christian.net/resources/daniels-70th-week-future-or-fulfilled/

10. “HE SHALL CONFIRM THE COVENANT.” When Jesus instituted the Lord’ s supper, representative of his shed blood for the remission of sins, he said: ‘This is my blood of the new testament [covenant], which is shed for many for the remission of sins” (Matthew 26:28). The word “testament” here and the word “covenant” are translated from exactly the same word in the New Testament. “How much more shall the blood of Christ…purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause, he is the mediator of the new testament [covenant]” (Hebrews 9:14,15).

Jesus is called the “mediator of the new covenant” (Hebrews. 8:6), the “messenger of the covenant” (Malachi. 3:1), and his shed blood is called “the blood of the everlasting covenant” (Hebrews. 12:24). Our Lord Jesus is the one who confirmed the covenant through his redemptive sacrifice at Calvary. And how beautifully this harmonizes with what we have already seen.

Dude653 said:

Actually America does. The Rothschild state of Israel only has the power it illegally usurps from the US. Without US support, Israel's regime would be unable to maintain its belligerent posture against its own civilians and those in neighbouring countries.

cv5 · Oct 24, 2024

Moses_Young said:

You have a very serious problem.

You believe that the "he", the "prince that shall come "..........is Jesus Christ the God-Man .
When in fact, in the "he", the "prince that shall come " .....IS THE ANTI-CHRIST, the Satan-man.

THAT....is how far you have fallen. But, I suspect that this blindness of yours has much to do with despising/condemning the Jews, and denying God's eternal love for Israel and denying God's promised and prophesied certain future redemption of Israel.

Anyhoo.....glad its not my problem.

Moses_Young · Oct 24, 2024

cv5 said:

The irony is that you are the one having to insert a 2000-year gap that is nowhere spoken about in scripture to determine that the prince that shall come is the anti-Christ - the Satan-man. Kind of a poor prophecy if it was 2000 years out. To do your switcheroo, you are also denying the works of Christ - the interpretation I hold to comes from the plain reading of scripture with no hidden 2000-year gaps required, it attaches full importance to the completed works of Christ, and makes complete sense that there is no longer Jew or Gentile, but all are one in Christ Jesus.

Taken from the link below.

https://christian.net/resources/daniels-70th-week-future-or-fulfilled/

5. “TO FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION”, or literally, “to finish transgression.” As Jesus was dying, he cried: “It is FINISHED.” At Calvary, Jesus finished transgression by becoming sin for us. No future sacrifice can ever finish transgression; it was finished at Calvary (Hebrews 9:15). “He was wounded for our TRANSGRESSIONS” (Isaiah 53:5).

6. “TO MAKE AN END OF SINS.” Here the basic thought is repeated. If we understand the glorious significance of what was accomplished at Calvary, we know that here there was truly an end made of sins.

Jesus, who came “to save his people from their sins”, accomplished this when he “put away sin by the sacrifice of himself” (Mt. 1:21; Heb. 9:26). “It is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins… But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever…hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified…And their sins… remember no more” (Hebrews 10:4-11). The old system of sacrifices could never make an end of sins, but Christ by the sacrifice of himself did make an end of sins, even as the prophecy had said!

John announced him as “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sins of the world” (John 1:29). “Christ died for our sins” (1 Corinthians 15:3). He “bare our sins in his own body on the tree” (l Peter 2:24) and “hath once suffered for sins” (3:18). “He was manifested to take away our sins” (l John 3:5). This “end of sins” was accomplished at Calvary.

All of this does not mean, of course, that right at this point men quit sinning. This was not the case. But what the scripture does mean is that at Calvary the eternal sacrifice for sin was made, so that any and allópast, present, or future ówho will be forgiven of sins will be forgiven because our Lord’ s death almost 2,000 years ago made an “end of sins”!

7. “TO MAKE RECONCILIATION FOR INIQUITY.” The word reconciliation used here is the same word that is used so frequently in the book of Leviticus where it is rendered “to make atonement.” This, too, was part of our Lord’s redemptive work. Surely “reconciliation” is a present reality because of Calvary!

Jesus, “our merciful and faithful high priest” made “RECONCILIATION for the sins of the people” (Hebrews 2:17). “Having made peace through the blood…to RECONCILE all things unto himself…and you, that were sometimes alienated…hath he RECONCILED…through death” (Colossians. 1:20-22; Ephesians. 2:16).

“God was in Christ, RECONCILING the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of RECONCILIATION” (2 Corinthians 5:19). Plainly, “reconciliation for iniquity” was accomplished by Jesus, for he “gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all INIQUITY” (Titus 2:14), and “the Lord hath laid on him the INIQUITY of us all” (Isaiah 53:6).

8. ”TO BRING IN EVER LASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS.” This too was accomplished by the redemptive work of Christ! The great redemption chapter of Isaiah 53 had prophesied: “My righteous servant shall make many RIGHTEOUS.” Paul put it this way: “By the righteousness of one…shall many be made RIGHTEOUS… unto eternal life by Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:17-21). He who came “to fulfill all righteousness” (Matthew 3:15) and who “loved righteousness, and hated iniquity”, was “anointed” of God (Hebrews. 1:9) and made unto us wisdom, and RIGHTEOUSNESS, and sanctification, and redemption” (1 Corinthians. 1:30). “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto RIGHTEOUSNESS” (1 Peter 2:24). “Even the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God…through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood to declare his RIGHTEOUSNESS for the remission of sins” (Romans 3:21-26). “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God in him” (2 Corinthians 5:21). “Everyone that doeth RIGHTEOUSNESS is born of him” (1 John 2:29).

Taking all of these verses into consideration, we ask: Did Christ in his coming to earth provide righteousness through his redemptive work? All Christians acknowledge that he did. We ask then: Was not this righteousness that he brought in everlasting? Of course. Surely no Christians would deny that the righteousness of Christ is “everlasting righteousness.”

“By his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION ” everlasting righteousness” for us” (Hebrews. 9:12). This eternal or everlasting righteousness is contrasted to the old sacrifices under the law which were only of a temporary nature. But Christ, once for all time, offered himself thus providing, as the prophecy of Daniel had said, “everlasting righteousness.”

One only has to read the great redemption passages of Romans, Corinthians, Colossians, Ephesians, and Hebrews to see how an “end” of transgressions and sins, “reconciliation for iniquity”, and “everlasting righteousness” were all accomplished at Calvary by our Lord Jesus Christ!

In view of this, we see no basis for the futurist teaching that none of these things have yet been fulfilled, but are to be linked with a supposed seventieth week at the end of the age! To teach such is contradictory and tends to take away from the glory of that great redemption of Calvary which so beautifully and completely fulfilled these prophecies!

9. “TO SEAL UP VISION AND PROPHECY”, or literally, “to seal up vision and prophet.” The use of the metaphor “to seal” is derived from the ancient custom of attaching a seal to a document to show that it was genuine (See 1 Kings 21:8; Jeremiah. 32:10, 11; cf. John 6:27; 1 Corinthians. 9:2). Christ “sealed” Old Testament prophecy by fulfilling what was written of him.

Repeatedly we read concerning him: “…that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets.” Acts 3:18 says: “Those things which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer he hath so fulfilled:” Truly Jesus fulfilled what was written in the visions and prophecies of the Old Testament concerning him, and thus he “sealed” them showed that they were genuine. ‘They are they”, he said, “which testify of me” (John 5:39). “All the prophets and the law prophesied until John” (Matthew 11:13), then John presented Jesus as he that was to be “made manifest to Israel.” Jesus was the one that was to come and we look for none other. He is the fulfillment of vision and prophecy.

10. “HE SHALL CONFIRM THE COVENANT.” When Jesus instituted the Lord’ s supper, representative of his shed blood for the remission of sins, he said: ‘This is my blood of the new testament [covenant], which is shed for many for the remission of sins” (Matthew 26:28). The word “testament” here and the word “covenant” are translated from exactly the same word in the New Testament. “How much more shall the blood of Christ…purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause, he is the mediator of the new testament [covenant]” (Hebrews 9:14,15).

Jesus is called the “mediator of the new covenant” (Hebrews. 8:6), the “messenger of the covenant” (Malachi. 3:1), and his shed blood is called “the blood of the everlasting covenant” (Hebrews. 12:24). Our Lord Jesus is the one who confirmed the covenant through his redemptive sacrifice at Calvary. And how beautifully this harmonizes with what we have already seen.

Moses_Young · Oct 24, 2024

Moses_Young said:

Continued.

11. “HE SHALL CAUSE THE SACRIFICE AND THE OBLATION TO CEASE.” This too was fulfilled in the death of Jesus Christ. In the Old Testament, as we have mentioned, sacrifices were repeatedly made. Each of these was but a mere type looking forward to the time when the perfect sacrifice, the Lamb of God, would be offered. Once this would be accomplished, God would no longer require or accept any other sacrifice.

The perfect sacrifice was Jesus Christ. The old system of repeated sacrifices (types) could only end at Calvary when Christ became the perfect, eternal, and final sacrifice (See Hebrews. 9 and 10). In addition to Calvary’s sacrifice, “there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Hebrews. 10: 18, 26).

For a few more years, the Jews continued their sacrifices, but these were not recognized by God. Such cannot be termed sacrifices in the true scriptural sense of the word, for the death of Christ provided the perfect, and therefore, the final sacrifice for sins forever.

Further proof that this was fulfilled in Christ is seen in the time element, for the prophecy said that sacrifice would cease in the middle of the week the 70th week. This was when Christ died, for the 69 weeks measured unto Messiah and his death came after a ministry of three and a half years.

That this was the length of our Lord’s ministry may be seen by a study of the gospel according to John in which mention is made of four Passovers that occurred during our Lord’s ministry: John 2:13, 5:1 (see Footnote 1), 6:4, 13:1. Eusebius, a Christian writer of the fourth century, pointed these things out: “Now the whole period of our Saviour’s teaching and working of miracles is said to have been three-and-a-half years, which is half a week. John the evangelist, in his Gospel, makes this clear to the attentive.” (Footnote 2)

And so, after three and a half years of ministry as the Christ the anointed one Jesus was cut off in death, in the middle of the 70th week of seven years. As Augustine said: “Daniel even defined the time when Christ was to come and suffer by the exact date.” (Footnote 3)

Understanding this, we can now see real significance in certain New Testament statements which also speak of a definite established time at which Jesus would die. For example, we read: “They sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come” (John 7:30). In John 2:4, Jesus said, “Mine hour is not yet come.” On another occasion, he said, “My time is not yet come” (John 7:6). Then just prior to his betrayal and death, he said, “My time is at hand” (Matthew 26:18), and finally, ‘”the hour is come” (John 17:1; Matthew 26:45).

These and other verses clearly show that there was a definite time in the plan of God when Jesus would die. He came to fulfill the scriptures, and there is only one Old Testament scripture which predicted the time of his death the prophecy which stated that Messiah would be cut off in the midst of the 70th week at the close of three and a half years of ministry! How perfectly the prophecy was fulfilled in Christ!

But those who say that the confirming of the covenant and causing sacrifices to cease in the midst of the 70th week refers to a future Antichrist, completely destroy this beautiful fulfillment and are at a complete loss to show where in the Old Testament the time of our Lord’s death was predicted.

The prophecy of Daniel 9 stated that Messiah would confirm the covenant (or would cause the covenant to prevail) with many of Daniel’s people for the “week” or seven years. We ask then, when Christ came, was his ministry directed in a special way to Daniel’s people óto “Israel ” (Daniel. 9:20)? Yes!

John introduced him as he “that should be made manifest to ISRAEL” (John 1:31). “I am not sent”, Jesus said, “but unto the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL” (Matthew. 15:24). And when he first sent out his apostles, they were directed: “Go not into the way of the Gentiles…go rather to the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL” (Matthew 10:5,6).

The first half of the “week”, the time of our Lord’s ministry, was definitely directed toward ISRAEL. But what about the second half the final three and a half years of the prophecy was it also linked with Israel? Did the disciples continue to preach for the duration of the remaining three and a half years (as Christ’s representatives) especially to Daniel’s people to Israel? Yes, they did!

Jesus had told the disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature (Mark. 16:15; Matthew.28:19; Acts 1:8), YET and this is significant after Christ ascended, the disciples still at first preached only to Israel! Why? We know of only one prophecy which would indicate that this was to be the course followed. It is the prophecy of the 70 weeks which implied that after the death of Messiah there would still be three and a half years that pertained to Israel!

Bearing this in mind, we can now understand at least one reason why the gospel went “to the Jew first” and then later to the Gentiles (Romans. 1:16). Peter preached shortly after Pentecost: “Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant… unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities” (Acts 3:25, 26). “It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you” (Acts 13:46).

In person, Christ came to Israel during the first half of the “week” three and a half years. Through the disciples for the three and a half years that remained his message still went to Israel, “the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following” (Mark. 16:20). In a very real sense of the word, the ministry of the disciples was a continuation of the ministry of Christ.

Then came the conversion of Cornelius which completely changed the missionary outreach, outlook, and ministry of the church. Though the New Testament does not give an exact date when this happened, apparently the time for a special exclusive blessing upon Daniel’s people had drawn to a close. The gospel which had gone first to the Jews was now to take its full mission to be preached to all people of all nations!

This time of changeover was marked by a number of supernatural events. Cornelius received a heavenly visitation. An angel appeared to him and told him to call for Peter “who shall tell thee words whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved” (Acts 11:14). God showed Peter a vision which caused him to know that the gospel was now to go to the Gentiles and not to Israelites only. All of these things were timed perfectly showing that God’s hand was accomplishing a definite purpose.

Returning to Jerusalem, Peter explained what had happened. “When they heard these things, they… glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life” (Acts 11:18). From this very point, more and more, there was a turning to the Gentiles with the gospel message. God’s measurement of 490 years pertaining in a special way to Israel had obviously been completed.

And finally,

12. THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM AND THE TEMPLE. This part of the prophecy was not dated within the framework of the 70 weeks as was the time of the appearance of Messiah to Israel, the time of his death, etc. Nevertheless, living on this side of the fulfillment, we know that the predicted destruction found fulfillment in 70 A.D. when the armies of Titus brought the city to desolation.

With Adam Clarke we say: “The whole of this prophecy from the times and corresponding events has been fulfilled to the very letter.” (Clarke’s Commentary, note on Daniel 9)

The hatred of Jews

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Banned

Banned