The hatred of Jews

[HeIsHere]

I have my doubts about reaching a consensus because it requires accepting certain historical facts that some of us aren't willing to accept. However, I'm willing to try.

Yes, I would agree about how consensus can be achieved, however, you would have more success with someone who is not fully invested.
Like @Moses_Young stated on this thread he was not fully invested in "Darbyism" those are the people who most likely can see the holes in the doctrine.
Those who make accusations of hate and falsely label with some ridiculous associations are far, far to emotionally/psychologically invested.

 

[HeIsHere]

Ad hominem. I've yet to read anything related to the discussion from you.

Absolutely.

 

[HeIsHere]

I have my doubts about reaching a consensus because it requires accepting certain historical facts that some of us aren't willing to accept. However, I'm willing to try.

The following is an interview of Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro by The Palestine Pod, a podcast created and hosted by two Jewish people.

I figure the most definitive...erm...definition of Zionism is best heard from the mouths of the people it supposedly was created for.

DISCLAIMER: He is speaking from the perspective of a Jewish Rabbi (follower of Judaism), not a Christian scholar. Also, I am only referencing certain portions of this interview and do not blindly endorse his full perspective on all matters they address.

Supercut of his full position in the first minute of the video:

"Zionism is its own religion..."


His definition of Zionism:

14:52-19:44 - "Nationalism is another name for Zionism; Jewish Nationalism...[Zionism says] 'You are not a people enjoined by god to fulfill this religion, these religious laws. You are a nation'...But instead of creating a new nationality out of nothing...[the zionists erased] Jewish identity. 'We're going to take their history, change it a bit. We're going to take their self-image; take Jewishness'...They revised all of Jewish history. They had this nonsense [idea] that Jews for thousands of years were looking for national self-determination, which is not true. We were looking for a messianic renewal of the world...[We were never praying for the] Jerusalem we have today, [rather] a Jerusalem that's governed by a resurrected king David...where the wolf lays down with the lamb..."

He continues by explaining from his perspective that being a Jew isn't a nationality or ethnicity but an identity defined by a religion, which - from his perspective - is accurate to say as a follower of their religion. He says, "It's difficult to believe that Ivanka Trump and Sammy Davis jr...are from the same ethnicity". He adds that Zionism manufactured the rules of Jewish ethnicity (maternal lineage argument) and that it's even difficult for zionists to wrap their heads around.

My definitions for these terms will always come from scripture, but I believe this confusion was necessary to fulfill zionists' plans.

It's an interesting interview.

---

To the thread: Do we agree with this seasoned rabbi's definition of Zionism? If so, he defines it as a hijacking of identity and a departure from the Torah (i.e., laws) and from the hope for a resurrected messiah to govern them...completely contradictory to scripture, both Old Testament and New Testament.

I have listened to several of his videos over the past year or so, definitely worth listening to.
I think going a back to the writings of the rabbis of the time when Zionism was first being birthed is also very informative.

 

[GaryA]

Okay, I do not think this discussion board is really the place to go into the depth and breadth of historicist versus a non-futurist view.

However, what/who is the abomination that causes desolation in the historicist position?

You mean "this thread"? I agree - we don't want to derail this thread - even though, it would probably help it if we did...

My answer is this - there is only one AoD occurance in the entire history of mankind - and, it occurred in 167 B.C. - and, the rest is a matter of properly understanding what scripture really actually says.

I can explain it to you if you are truly interested in understanding that perspective - but, this thread is definitely not the place for it.

 

[HeIsHere]

You mean "this thread"? I agree - we don't want to derail this thread - even though, it would probably help it if we did...

My answer is this - there is only one AoD occurance in the entire history of mankind - and, it occurred in 167 B.C. - and, the rest is a matter of properly understanding what scripture really actually says.

I can explain it to you if you are truly interested in understanding that perspective - but, this thread is definitely not the place for it.

even though, it would probably help it if we did...

No worries I can search it out. I do think it was the crucifixion but I do like to always compare and contrast when I have time available.


I am a "she" btw.

 

[GaryA]

I am a "she" btw.

I know that...

Where did I indicate you as a "he"...?

 

[Yahshua]

Timeline.

It is profoundly obvious they know nothing of history,Bible scriptures, or the contemporary metric that has escalated the Palestinian Israel conflict since October 2023.

Mid-September 2023 - Gaza Strip protesters received bullet wounds to ankles, medics report.

Medics in the Gaza Strip have reported treating an influx of protesters who appear to have been deliberately targeted in the ankle {"a joint that was extremely difficult to treat because it is a joint that bears weight"} by Israeli forces in recent unrest at the volatile boundary of the blockaded Palestinian enclave.

Hamas, the Islamist militant group that has controlled the area since 2007, told the Guardian: “the people of Gaza want to live in peace and dignity. Further unrest is possible if our conditions are not met."

About 60% of the thousands of injured were hit in the legs by sniper fire, according to the local health ministry – admissions that overwhelmed an already crumbling medical sector.

Human rights groups say that such targeting procedures are unlawful as they allow the use of potentially lethal force with no immediate threat to soldiers’ lives.


September 18, 2023 - 2023 marks deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bank

At least 38 Palestinian children have been killed by Israeli forces in the occupied West Bank so far in 2023, making it the deadliest year since records began, said Save the Children.

This horrific record was reached this month after the deaths of two 16-year-old boys on two separate occasions1.

On average, it equates to more than one Palestinian child killed per week. At least six Israeli children have also been killed this year.


September 19, 2023 - One killed at Gaza border by Israeli fire, three in West Bank -Palestinian officials

Israeli forces shot and killed a Palestinian man along the Gaza-Israel border on Tuesday and three Palestinian men in clashes in the occupied West Bank city of Jenin, Palestinian officials said.

The Palestinian killed in Gaza was the first such fatality in what has recently become almost daily confrontations along the frontier after months of relative calm.

"The ongoing Israeli aggression against our people in Gaza, Jenin and other Palestinian cities will bring violence and escalation to the entire region,” Nabil Abu Rudeineh, the official spokesman for the Palestinian Presidency, said.


Also September 19, 2023 - IDF knew of Hamas's plan to kidnap 250 before October 7 attack - report

The document, titled "Detailed End-to-End Raid Training," was distributed [throughout IDF intelligence of]...step-by-step intel on Hamas' plans for October 7th.

-----

^All happened before October 7, 2023. So who targeted innocent civilians first in this timeline? Or shall we go earlier?

 

[GaryA]

You quoted a statement about truth revealed in the Bible yet answered a question about the Bible????? Instead of your remarks being a reply to the quoted statement????? It is no wonder why there is so much confusion!

I made a statement about truth from the perspective of truth itself. I was not referring to any particular group of people and/or what they believed.

Your reply certainly seemed to be saying that truth was only truth if it concerned a particular group of people and not other groups.

If you are wise, you will not make this mistake again!

In a thread like this, you need to be very specific in your choice of words so that others know exactly-and-precisely what you are talking about and referring to.

The willy-nilly attitude that says "I am just going to speak from left field - but - you will surely know exactly what I mean." is completely careless.

Go ahead - ask everyone else in the thread how they interpreted your reply to my statement.

If you are not going to care any more than that to make sure you are clearly understood by others - I probably do not wish to discuss this topic with you at all...

You take incredible liberties in implying you speak for others not solely yourself.

This tactic of yours won't work except to engender agreement among those like you.
You can't respond to the facts so you imply I am not understanding your prior post against my own post.

Unless you have a deficit in reading comprehension. In which case it is understandable.
And can explain your confusion.
My post was clear. And it addressed you.


Are you like the street punks? Who talk trash all by themselves but when confronted to answer for it call a gang to fight what they alone can invite yet cannot face?

You're not discussing this topic. You're insisting the OP topic is to be accepted as is without rebuttal by history and God's word.
Actual history and God's word. Not the CI corruption of those.

With particular regard to:

If you are not going to care any more than that to make sure you are clearly understood by others - I probably do not wish to discuss this topic with you at all...

So be it!

 

[HeIsHere]

I know that...

Where did I indicate you as a "he"...?

I am not offended or anything but it was this post so I am assuming the "he" is me, since her comment was a response to my post.

#2293

I detect no disparagement in what he said that you quoted.

 

[HeIsHere]

Mid-September 2023 - Gaza Strip protesters received bullet wounds to ankles, medics report.

Medics in the Gaza Strip have reported treating an influx of protesters who appear to have been deliberately targeted in the ankle {"a joint that was extremely difficult to treat because it is a joint that bears weight"} by Israeli forces in recent unrest at the volatile boundary of the blockaded Palestinian enclave.

Hamas, the Islamist militant group that has controlled the area since 2007, told the Guardian: “the people of Gaza want to live in peace and dignity. Further unrest is possible if our conditions are not met."

About 60% of the thousands of injured were hit in the legs by sniper fire, according to the local health ministry – admissions that overwhelmed an already crumbling medical sector.

Human rights groups say that such targeting procedures are unlawful as they allow the use of potentially lethal force with no immediate threat to soldiers’ lives.


September 18, 2023 - 2023 marks deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bank

At least 38 Palestinian children have been killed by Israeli forces in the occupied West Bank so far in 2023, making it the deadliest year since records began, said Save the Children.

This horrific record was reached this month after the deaths of two 16-year-old boys on two separate occasions1.

On average, it equates to more than one Palestinian child killed per week. At least six Israeli children have also been killed this year.


September 19, 2023 - One killed at Gaza border by Israeli fire, three in West Bank -Palestinian officials

Israeli forces shot and killed a Palestinian man along the Gaza-Israel border on Tuesday and three Palestinian men in clashes in the occupied West Bank city of Jenin, Palestinian officials said.

The Palestinian killed in Gaza was the first such fatality in what has recently become almost daily confrontations along the frontier after months of relative calm.

"The ongoing Israeli aggression against our people in Gaza, Jenin and other Palestinian cities will bring violence and escalation to the entire region,” Nabil Abu Rudeineh, the official spokesman for the Palestinian Presidency, said.


Also September 19, 2023 - IDF knew of Hamas's plan to kidnap 250 before October 7 attack - report

The document, titled "Detailed End-to-End Raid Training," was distributed [throughout IDF intelligence of]...step-by-step intel on Hamas' plans for October 7th.

-----

^All happened before October 7, 2023. So who targeted innocent civilians first in this timeline? Or shall we go earlier?

I am wondering what the response will be... let me guess.... "Israel has a right to defend itself against terrorists."

 

[GaryA]

Those who make accusations of hate and falsely label with some ridiculous associations are far, far to emotionally/psychologically invested.

A vast understatement...

 

[GaryA]

I am not offended or anything but it was this post so I am assuming the "he" is me, since her comment was a response to my post.

#2293

Oh - sorry, dear...

I guess I am reading through this mess too fast - must have thought it was one of the guys she made the comment to...

 

[Yahshua]

I am not offended or anything but it was this post so I am assuming the "he" is me, since her comment was a response to my post.

#2293

Oh - sorry, dear...

I guess I am reading through this mess too fast...

Wait...wasn't the "he" referring to me??

...who's on first?

 

[Publican]

How exactly do you mean this?

Exactly as it was stated. False paradigm. Easily disproven to any willing to do the research. But I'm not having that debate.

 

[Publican]

Virus's aren't real? Or just the manipulated SARS (COVID-19 virus)?

Not real at all.

 

[Publican]

I think I probably accepted it unthinkingly at one stage, but it never really made sense to me, especially the more I learned about it. I don't think it gels very well with Abraham's faith in God being credited to Him as righteousness, which is a clear scriptural teaching.

It was the only theological system I had ever heard. Strange enough, the Spirit revealed the rapture lie to me months before I ever became a believer. Prophecy has never been my thing, way more interested in how to live the Christ life than guessing games about future events. So it took many years for me to completely dispense with dispensationalism. So grateful.

 

[HeIsHere]

Exactly as it was stated. False paradigm. Easily disproven to any willing to do the research. But I'm not having that debate.

I was not wanting to debate, I was simply asking for clarification.

 

[Publican]

A vast understatement...

And too you also. I pray the Lord will change your heart and mind. Blessings.

Oh He did, I used to think just like you. It didn't take much study at all to see the errors I had been taught.

I'm not trying to change your mind. I will ask you this however; is it even possible for you at this point to read the scriptures for what they actually say, to see the words themselves, minus the dispensational lenses? If you can do this, you will quickly arrive at the conclusion that the amount of scriptural manipulation required to arrive at these wild conclusions is remarkable, remarkably heretical and antithetical to everything taught by the church fathers as well as history itself, unreliable as it may be.

I mean no disrespect as I am sure you hold your views in sincerity and came by them honestly. The same cannot be said for the promoters of this aberrant theological system.

There are alternative views, and those of us who hold some of these views are likely neither hateful or antisemitic. Especially considering that we actually understand what a Semite is, but that's another discussion. I hate evil. And even then I guard my heart against excess, knowing that God loves all people and it is not His will that any should perish.

 

[Publican]

I was not wanting to debate, I was simply asking for clarification.

Thank you and thank Yah.

 

[Publican]

You know it exists. You posted it on your post 14 at the very end.


Unfortunately no one has yet brought Hamas and their allies to court for those offenses.



There you go again.

You have .


A bit of news here for you. Governments are comprised of people. When you say Net and his cabinet should be executed for war crimes as the Nazis were after WW2 that's hatred.
And it does not go unnoticed you ignore Hamas and Iran terrorism. Especially when Hamas struck first on October 10 with 2000 missiles shot into Israel.
Those civilians who were murdered in Israel? What about them?

The partisan attack angle is weak. Try some other tactic.

Most of those civilians were killed by Israeli chopper gunners. Bet you didn't see that on FOX or CNN. 10-7 happened but not the way you think it did or for the reasons you think it did.

Someone is using biblical prophecy as a means to extract funds and support from duped western Christians. And its working out quite well, for Satan. But whatever. What's a few thousand more dead women and children, their only gentiles anyways.