The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation
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Paul indicates that the Lord comes to "them" in the "manner" of moral conscience and Nature/Creation that is "proclaimed to every creature under heaven" (CL 1:23, RM 1:20). He also views Gentiles who have faith like Abraham as being "blessed" = saved (GL 3:8, cf. RM 10:13-18). These cases are what I include in the term "proto-Gospel"?
In any case, we should keep in mind 1TM 2:3-4, "God our Savior wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth", so He must provide some way/manner. Not sure that they will hear the Gospel "directly" or from Christ until the resurrection.
In any case, we should keep in mind 1TM 2:3-4, "God our Savior wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth", so He must provide some way/manner. Not sure that they will hear the Gospel "directly" or from Christ until the resurrection.
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we also have Naaman the Syrian as an example - nothing in the text indicates he became a proselyte Jew, in fact because he did not follow the law concerning healed leprousy in Leviticus, he almost certainly did not - but he was healed of leprosy ((representing salvation from sin and death)) because he believed and obeyed the limited revelation and instruction given to him, even without fully understanding it.
iit is significant that before Christ he is the only person who was ever healed of leprosy in the entire world ((ignoring the sign of the leprous hand Moses was given))
iit is significant that before Christ he is the only person who was ever healed of leprosy in the entire world ((ignoring the sign of the leprous hand Moses was given))
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My point is that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. So apart from the gospel, God would have to come directly to an individual for salvation to occur.
Through nature and conscience an individual may come to know of the existence of God, but knowing of His existence is very different than knowing Him.
And while God's preference is for all to be saved, that is much different from saying it is His will that all be saved...unless you believe that God's will can be thwarted.
Do you believe God is obligated to make sure everyone has access to the gospel and salvation?
Through nature and conscience an individual may come to know of the existence of God, but knowing of His existence is very different than knowing Him.
And while God's preference is for all to be saved, that is much different from saying it is His will that all be saved...unless you believe that God's will can be thwarted.
Do you believe God is obligated to make sure everyone has access to the gospel and salvation?
Your point is based on RM 10:14, but you are overlooking RM 1:20 (cited previously), CL 1:23, "The gospel... has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven", and JN 1:1&3, "In the beginning was the Word [Logos]... Through him all things were made...". (cf. PS 33:6)
These passages indicate that the creation also manifests God's Word, so that in a sense God may be viewed as a “Quadity”. As Paul told the Athenians (ACTS 17:28), “In Him we live and move and have our being.” God as Creation is omnipresent throughout physical reality (called “panentheism”). However, since this mode of revelation is impersonal, it has been de-emphasized by most Christian denominations.
I agree with wattie re God doesn't have to conform to our fallible understanding of Scripture, but good theodicy has proper regard for 1TM 2:3-4, rather than saying that folks will be damned to hell because they had no opportunity to hear the NT Gospel.
God is just (2THS 1:6a, cf. RM 3:25-26 & 9:14, DT 32:4, PS 36:6, LK 11:42, RV 15:3). All explanations of reality and interpretations of Scripture should conform to this certitude: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” (PS 145:17)
The Judge is just. It would be better not to attempt an explanation of God’s Word than to state one that impugns God’s justice and love for all people (JL 2:13, JN 3:16).
These passages indicate that the creation also manifests God's Word, so that in a sense God may be viewed as a “Quadity”. As Paul told the Athenians (ACTS 17:28), “In Him we live and move and have our being.” God as Creation is omnipresent throughout physical reality (called “panentheism”). However, since this mode of revelation is impersonal, it has been de-emphasized by most Christian denominations.
I agree with wattie re God doesn't have to conform to our fallible understanding of Scripture, but good theodicy has proper regard for 1TM 2:3-4, rather than saying that folks will be damned to hell because they had no opportunity to hear the NT Gospel.
God is just (2THS 1:6a, cf. RM 3:25-26 & 9:14, DT 32:4, PS 36:6, LK 11:42, RV 15:3). All explanations of reality and interpretations of Scripture should conform to this certitude: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” (PS 145:17)
The Judge is just. It would be better not to attempt an explanation of God’s Word than to state one that impugns God’s justice and love for all people (JL 2:13, JN 3:16).
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If the gospel has indeed been preached to every creature, why did Jesus commission the Apostles to go preach the gospel to the known world of their time? While God is hardly limited by man, fallen man is limited by his fallen nature. And God has prescribed the preaching of the gospel by sent representatives to produce salvation. So while God is not limited to this means, it is His prescribed means.
You still haven't answered my question: do you believe God is obligated to offer salvation to every individual?
The justice of God is a fascinating topic. Some conflate justice with fairness. Do you?
You still haven't answered my question: do you believe God is obligated to offer salvation to every individual?
The justice of God is a fascinating topic. Some conflate justice with fairness. Do you?
HAVE means “obligate”, so no. And “wants” means “wills”, so your attempt to demean 1 TM 2:3-4 is problematic. I don’t know why you want to impugn God’s love for everyone, which makes damnation unfair = unjust.
Jesus commanded evangelizing so that those who have only one or five talents will be given ten or the full gospel instead of only the prototype.
Jesus commanded evangelizing so that those who have only one or five talents will be given ten or the full gospel instead of only the prototype.
There are no requirements for salvation because the Father chooses to whom he will bestow His grace. John 1: 13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. If you are asking what has to happen in order to receive salvation, the answer is you have to be baptized (not of water) in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. You get baptized in the name of the Father when He chooses you to bestow His grace. He starts by granting repentance to the sinner so that the sinner recognizes his sin or sins and feels deep sorrow and shame for them so that he turns to God for forgiveness and strength to overcome. He gets baptized (not water) in the name of the Son when Jesus Christ is preached to him for the remission of sins and he believes. When this happens, Jesus Christ baptizes the person in the name of the Holy Spirit (as predicted by John the Baptist). The Holy Spirit according to Isaiah 63: 9-10 is the angel of God's presence. Angel because it can be sent, and where the Father's Holy Spirit is, the Father is. In other words, the Holy Spirit acts as a portal through which God the Father through His Son can both enter the being indwelled in order to perfect the person and qualify him for salvation. This happens when both Father and Son fill the heart of the person with the same divine love that they share. We become One with the Father and Son because those saved are all connected to the Father and Son through the Holy Spirit. The Father resides in the Son and the Son resides in us and together They perfect us by changing our motivation for living from love of self first to love of God first and all others as we love ourselves second. God judges the hearts of men and without this divine love you cannot enter heaven no matter what you do or believe (read 1 Cor 13). Salvation is a state of being and you have nothing to do with it because God does all the work.
So a sovereign God is under no obligation to anyone...good.
Want does not mean wills. Want expresses desire. If the term there means wills, then God is not sovereign because He is unable to bring His will to pass. Otherwise, if God wills salvation for all, all would be saved. This is clearly not the case.
I don't conflate unfairness with injustice, any more than I conflate fairness with justice. God clearly deals with different people differently. To be fair, He would have to deal with all people equally. This is not the case. But that doesn't make God unjust.
You are very good at avoiding questions. Do you equate fairness and justice?
Want does not mean wills. Want expresses desire. If the term there means wills, then God is not sovereign because He is unable to bring His will to pass. Otherwise, if God wills salvation for all, all would be saved. This is clearly not the case.
I don't conflate unfairness with injustice, any more than I conflate fairness with justice. God clearly deals with different people differently. To be fair, He would have to deal with all people equally. This is not the case. But that doesn't make God unjust.
You are very good at avoiding questions. Do you equate fairness and justice?
God wills/wants/desires for everyone to be saved by freely seeking/wanting/desiring to satisfy His requirement for salvation, but He allows souls to reject His grace and reap the just consequence.
God does deal with everyone fairly as illustrated by the parable of the talents. I hope no one is negatively impacted by those who attribute unfair judgement to the all-loving God.
God does deal with everyone fairly as illustrated by the parable of the talents. I hope no one is negatively impacted by those who attribute unfair judgement to the all-loving God.
I hope no one is impacted negatively by those who discern poorly and ascribe things to others that aren't so.
The parable of the talents doesn't evidence fairness. Fairness would mean everyone would have gotten the same number of talents. They did not. But justice was exercised as each received some and all were required to gain an increase.
The parable of the talents doesn't evidence fairness. Fairness would mean everyone would have gotten the same number of talents. They did not. But justice was exercised as each received some and all were required to gain an increase.