Understanding God’s election

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cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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That's what the Holy Spirit teaches. Do you believe He is a Calvinist?
Here is what God is teaching.....

Mat 21:32
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

BTW, there is no doubt that ANY CANAANITE could have done what Rahab did. The entire city of Jericho could have of their own free will repented and been saved. Why? Because God is no respecter of persons.

And as we all know. the Ninevites all repented is that not true?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,549
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That's what the Holy Spirit teaches. Do you believe He is a Calvinist?
Oh....and this is all pre-ascension salvation. Figure that one out.

Mat 21:32
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
 
Oct 28, 2024
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... preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved
;
Jesus wants EVERYONE to be evangelized because the elect are in this group.

News Flash ... The elect need to hear the Gospel, so they can respond to it.
We are talking about HOW and WHY people respond with belief.
E.G. After God opened Lydia's heart, she responded with belief.

Second News Flash ... The non-elect need to hear the Gospel,
so they cannot honestly say to Jesus at the Judgment:
"No one ever told me about this! ... How can I be held responsible?"
(Jesus told me this was the 2nd reason that He was sending me to evangelize.)
 
Dec 18, 2021
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That's just your poor understanding of scripture. Romans 1 clearly makes men responsible before God, and Romans 9 clearly says men fit themselves for destruction.
You don't have to receive what I've shared, but it's right there in the scripture.
it says they do not have an excue

it does not say they do not have the ability to chose to recieve life.

if they can not chose. They have an excuse. God kept the truth from them/

thats fatalism my friend.

And it shows the creation that God is not the god of love he claims to be.. Your in effect giving satan a reason to go back to court.. And prove God is not the god of agape love.. he does t love the world. Only those he randomly chose to save.. screw the rest of them
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Here is what God is teaching.....

Mat 21:32
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

BTW, there is no doubt that ANY CANAANITE could have done what Rahab did. The entire city of Jericho could have of their own free will repented and been saved. Why? Because God is no respecter of persons.

And as we all know. the Ninevites all repented is that not true?
The Ninevites were provided a preacher, and preached the word of God. God initiated the encounter and faith was produced by the word of God. This is how salvation always takes place. But men didn't instigate it. God did.
Were the Ninevites somehow more deserving than other people groups, or did God simply choose them?
 
Dec 18, 2021
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That's where the grace of God enters in.
Ephesians 4:1...But God...
Yes

grace of God gives every man woman and child the ability to understand the curse, and the promise

man has to chose to say yes Lord. i want your salvation. or continue to live in sin.

in John 3 Jesus mentioned the serpent and moses.

God put the serpent in moses hands so anyone who looked would be saved, he did not force people to look, and he did nto keep or prevent people from looking so they could get saved.

In the same token is grace, the cross. God will not force you to look, and he will not prevent you from looking

But mark his word he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already
\the difference between the 2 is faith vs unbelief.

not who god chose,

God chose the ones who would freely recieve hI’m. And he predestined those people to be conformed to hs image.

fatalism is a lie.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Oh....and this is all pre-ascension salvation. Figure that one out.

Mat 21:32
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
Salvation has always been the same.
 
Dec 18, 2021
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Then what did He do?
He sent his only begotten son into the world. Not to judge the world. But that the world MIGHT be saved, he sent him into the world,, that WHOEVER in that world believes will not perish but have eternal life

He did nt just send his send into a world just to save a select group of people. That is against the character of God. Wh is willing that no one should perish.
 
Dec 18, 2021
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No, He enables them by changing their nature.
No. He draws them to himself and helps them understand the truth so they can make a decision based on knowledge. Not lack of knowledge.
This is, in part, why believers become partakers of the divine nature.
They become part of the divine nature because the moment they are justified. By recieving the righteousness of Christ. They are born again in a new nature. As Gods child..
 
Dec 18, 2021
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While I can't convince you otherwise, I'm not a fatalist. God can save anyone, anywhere, in any moment.
Thanks for the discussion. Grace and peace.
A fatalist says our eternity is predetermined

You can not deny you are a fatalist when you preach this very foundation.

Your right, you can not convince me, because its not true.. You are in denial.
 
Dec 18, 2021
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Jesus wants EVERYONE to be evangelized because the elect are in this group.

News Flash ... The elect need to hear the Gospel, so they can respond to it.
We are talking about HOW and WHY people respond with belief.
E.G. After God opened Lydia's heart, she responded with belief.

Second News Flash ... The non-elect need to hear the Gospel,
so they cannot honestly say to Jesus at the Judgment:
"No one ever told me about this! ... How can I be held responsible?"
(Jesus told me this was the 2nd reason that He was sending me to evangelize.)
The WORLD needs to hear the gospel so they can respond to it

As moses lifted the serpent Not just for those who would believe, but for those who would ot believe. He shows he is a God of perfect love. Who even loves those who will in unbelief reject him.

God is not a respector of reasons. why would you want to pump your chest claiming your so special?
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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God Knows our Hearts and knows who's heart will be receptive to His Gospel ----and God allows the people who's hearts are hardened toward Him and His Word to have their way ----God does not Force people to come to Him ----we have free will to Choose LIFE or DEATH -----
You are correct, God does know that, and by that He also knows that no one of themselves will/can be receptive to His word.

He knows the heart of natural man is deceitful above all things.

[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

He knows that natural man, being natural man, is unrighteous; that they have no spiritual understanding; that none can seek after Him

[Rom 3:10-12 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

He knows that He alone must give them a new heart, new spirit and a renewed mind, which only comes from salvation.
Until and unless saved, they will never come to true spiritual wisdom.

[Eze 36:26 KJV]
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

[Rom 12:2 KJV]
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

He knows that natural man is spiritually dead in sin and being spiritually dead, incapable of doing anything to give themselves spiritual life - that He must first forgive their sins, and from that, they obtain spiritual life; from spiritual life, comes spiritual understanding, not the reverse.

[Eph 2:1 KJV]
1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[Col 2:13 KJV]
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

He knows that by the wisdom of natural man, that natural man can never find wisdom.

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

He knows that natural man cannot even understand the tenets of salvation until their sins have first been forgiven them

[Luk 1:77 KJV]
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,


He knows that we are all completely dependent upon His grace and mercy for salvation - which mercy and grace He
does not impart to everyone - we can contribute nothing to the receiving of it but to be its recipients: it cannot be purchased, nor
deserved, nor taken by force, nor by works - it is completely and in its fullness a gift from Him alone in all ways, given only to those whom He has chosen for it, it being out of the reach or power of man. Should we have to make any contribution at all for it, then we would be co-saviors with Christ, but Christ alone is the Savior.
Instead, we are first saved, and from/by that, given the attributes of salvation which follow it - those of a Christian - such as true faith - which come through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

You do believe that Christ is the Savior, don't you? If so, then what do you think that being Savior actually means?

[Jde 1:25 KJV] 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
 
Dec 18, 2021
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You are correct, God does know that, and by that He also knows that no one of themselves will/can be receptive to His word.

He knows the heart of natural man is deceitful above all things.

[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

He knows that natural man, being natural man, is unrighteous; that they have no spiritual understanding; that none can seek after Him

[Rom 3:10-12 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

He knows that He alone must give them a new heart, new spirit and a renewed mind, which only comes from salvation.
Until and unless saved, they will never come to true spiritual wisdom.

[Eze 36:26 KJV]
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

[Rom 12:2 KJV]
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

He knows that natural man is spiritually dead in sin and being spiritually dead, incapable of doing anything to give themselves spiritual life - that He must first forgive their sins, and from that, they obtain spiritual life; from spiritual life, comes spiritual understanding, not the reverse.

[Eph 2:1 KJV]
1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[Col 2:13 KJV]
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

He knows that by the wisdom of natural man, that natural man can never find wisdom.

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

He knows that natural man cannot even understand the tenets of salvation until their sins have first been forgiven them

[Luk 1:77 KJV]
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,


He knows that we are all completely dependent upon His grace and mercy for salvation - which mercy and grace He
does not impart to everyone - we can contribute nothing to the receiving of it but to be its recipients: it cannot be purchased, nor
deserved, nor taken by force, nor by works - it is completely and in its fullness a gift from Him alone in all ways, given only to those whom He has chosen for it, it being out of the reach or power of man. Should we have to make any contribution at all for it, then we would be co-saviors with Christ, but Christ alone is the Savior.
Instead, we are first saved, and from/by that, given the attributes of salvation which follow it - those of a Christian - such as true faith - which come through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

You do believe that Christ is the Savior, don't you? If so, then what do you think that being Savior actually means?

[Jde 1:25 KJV] 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
And this is why God draws all people to himself

many are called but few are chosen

why are not all called chosen?

its easy, because many do not heed the call and reject Gods word
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,549
8,105
113
Jesus wants EVERYONE to be evangelized because the elect are in this group.

News Flash ... The elect need to hear the Gospel, so they can respond to it.
We are talking about HOW and WHY people respond with belief.
E.G. After God opened Lydia's heart, she responded with belief.

Second News Flash ... The non-elect need to hear the Gospel,
so they cannot honestly say to Jesus at the Judgment:
"No one ever told me about this! ... How can I be held responsible?"
(Jesus told me this was the 2nd reason that He was sending me to evangelize.)
News flash:

Calvinism is vain umbilical sophistry that denies child-like faith and shuts the door to the free gift of salvation.
And is frighteningly close to this:

Luk 11:52
Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Rather than endlessly repeating the errors of Augustin, we should bury them.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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560
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And this is why God draws all people to himself

many are called but few are chosen

why are not all called chosen?

its easy, because many do not heed the call and reject Gods word
That is incorrect. The “many”/”few” are many (but not all) are of the total number of people in absolute terms who are called and who will become saved which will be many; but relative to the number of the total population of people born throughout time, those who are called and chosen out of that population and saved, proportionately, are few: the “called” and the “chosen” are one in the same.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,549
8,105
113
The Ninevites were provided a preacher, and preached the word of God. God initiated the encounter and faith was produced by the word of God. This is how salvation always takes place. But men didn't instigate it. God did.
Were the Ninevites somehow more deserving than other people groups, or did God simply choose them?
Right. And no, they were NOT more deserving.

In fact, Jonah complained bitterly (at first, but later repented!) that THEY WERE LESS DESERVING!

And this is PRECISELY how ANYONE is saved today. The Word of God is EVERYWHERE.
The "call" is being shouted from the rooftops the world over. The Holy Spirit has His witness and is now working in the world.

And ANYONE may thereby enter into the Covenant of life and peace.

Yet you Calvinists are SO SINISTER in your outrageous claims, that YOU SAY
that it is GOD HIMSELF who is preventing anyone from entering in!


Go ahead. Run out there and preach to the unsaved world that God Himself is either allowing or denying salvation depending upon choices that God made before they were every born, and that what the hearer does or doesn't do has absolutely nothing to do with anything as regards their eternal salvation.

Good luck with your harvest.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,549
8,105
113
That is incorrect. The “many”/”few” are many (but not all) are of the total number of people in absolute terms who are called and who will become saved which will be many; but relative to the number of the total population of people born throughout time, those who are called and chosen out of that population and saved, proportionately, are few: the “called” and the “chosen” are one in the same.
Garbage hair-splitting Pharisaical sophistry. Junk theology.
 
Jun 18, 2024
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I have not swamped the OP with a lot of Scripture quotations,
but hopefully you will recall the NT verses which confirm the following …


Man is doubly incapable of believing in Jesus and the Gospel
1 – Because of the disobedience (sin) of Adam and Eve,
all humans are born with an inherited sin nature,
and are bent on sinning instead of following God (Romans 3:9-18).
Having a saving faith is against their very nature!
2 - All unsaved humans are captive prisoners of Satan,
and are bent on doing whatever he wants them to do (2 Timothy 2:26).
Jesus came to set the captives of Satan free (Luke 4:18).
Having a saving faith is against our enemy’s plans for them,
which, of course, is spending eternity with Satan and his demons in hell.
If the God-worshipping Lydia (Acts 16:14) needs God to give her the necessary
faith to believe in Jesus and the Gospel, surely everyone does also!
Similarly, the “anyones” who believe in Jesus in verses such as John 3:16
are the ones whom God has given saving faith!


Father God elects (chooses) and calls whomever He wishes
Jesus says to the elect, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you ….” (John 16:15).
Surely, here is a strong hint that we should investigate this matter further.
Romans chapter 9 is the most famous proponent of God’s election …

“… that the purpose of election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls.
… So then, it is not of him who wills (to be elected, chosen, and called),
nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.” (Romans 9:11-16)

God gives grace to whomever He chooses, but no one deserves grace (unmerited favor)!
God gives justice to whomever He chooses, and everyone deserves justice!
God wishes that all could be saved, but it is not possible because He insists on His justice.

“You love justice and hate evil.” (Hebrews 1”9)
God is not willing that any (of us) should perish, but that all (of us) should repent …
… the “us” referring to His elect, who are promised salvation.
Christians are called to confess and repent of their on-going sins,
and the blood of Jesus will cleanse them of all their unrighteousness (1 John 1:7-9).


The reason why Father God chooses some, but not others
Father God chooses to elect some people for His great pleasure.
He chooses to elect some to demonstrate to the whole world
His great love, mercy, grace, etc. (Romans 9:23).
He chooses to elect some to be companions for His Son throughout eternity (Scriptural?).
Those not chosen are given justice, which sadly is what they deserve.

Those whom Father God gives to Jesus are guaranteed salvation
This is all about the unconditional security of the born-again believer.
Multitudes of NT verses are God’s promises of salvation given to His elect.
Surely, those of us who are born again should be continually praising God and
thanking Him for choosing us … and for the Holy Spirit sanctifying us unto holiness
… and for Jesus interceding for us before Father God in heaven.
man does not inherit a sin nature but a sinful flesh as a result of the fall..