Understanding God’s election
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It's actually from three years ago... the original face had weird glitter lipstick on 
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Cameron143 said:
Or...because he was a Jew and writing to a Jewish audience who believed that salvation was primarily just for Jews, he was explaining that salvation was available to the whole world, and not simply Jews.
I replied:
Yes. Salvation is available to the whole world. Glad you came around to that conclusion.
the angst is real apparently. I don't agree with all he states. I try to align with scripture which I know everyone here thinks they are doing
Cameron143 said:
Or...because he was a Jew and writing to a Jewish audience who believed that salvation was primarily just for Jews, he was explaining that salvation was available to the whole world, and not simply Jews.
I replied:
Yes. Salvation is available to the whole world. Glad you came around to that conclusion.
the angst is real apparently. I don't agree with all he states. I try to align with scripture which I know everyone here thinks they are doing
Or...because he was a Jew and writing to a Jewish audience who believed that salvation was primarily just for Jews, he was explaining that salvation was available to the whole world, and not simply Jews.
I replied:
Yes. Salvation is available to the whole world. Glad you came around to that conclusion.
the angst is real apparently. I don't agree with all he states. I try to align with scripture which I know everyone here thinks they are doing
Doug,
I will respond to your OP.
1. Man is doubly incapable of believing in Jesus and the Gospel
Because God loves/wants to save everyone per 1TM 2:3-4, JN 3:16, etc., we must not interpret problematic Scripture in a way that contradicts this truth. IOW, the sin nature does not nullify volition and unsaved prisoners of Satan may be freed by Christ as you noted (Luke 4:18).
2. Father God elects (chooses) and calls whomever He wishes
This is true, but He calls everyone and chooses those who exercise volition to accept His Lordship. God's choice/election does precede whomever's decision. IOW, what is predestined is His plan of salvation via folks choosing to be "in Christ".
3. So then, it is not of him who wills (to be elected, chosen, and called), nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.” (Romans 9:11-16)
This is similar to what Jesus said in JN 15:16. God gives grace to whomever He chooses, and He chooses to give grace to whomever is willing to receive/accept it via faith in Him as Lord.
4. God wishes that all could be saved, but it is not possible because He insists on His justice
God administers justice to those who reject Christ's atonement on their behalf. As you cited, God is not willing/pleased that any (of us) should perish, but that all (of us) should repent … of our callousness per MT 13:14-15.
5. Those whom Father God gives to Jesus are guaranteed salvation
Salvation is conditional upon Christians remaining faithful until the end of their lives. I can post relevant Scripture on both sides of this issue if you would like.
LIC
I will respond to your OP.
1. Man is doubly incapable of believing in Jesus and the Gospel
Because God loves/wants to save everyone per 1TM 2:3-4, JN 3:16, etc., we must not interpret problematic Scripture in a way that contradicts this truth. IOW, the sin nature does not nullify volition and unsaved prisoners of Satan may be freed by Christ as you noted (Luke 4:18).
2. Father God elects (chooses) and calls whomever He wishes
This is true, but He calls everyone and chooses those who exercise volition to accept His Lordship. God's choice/election does precede whomever's decision. IOW, what is predestined is His plan of salvation via folks choosing to be "in Christ".
3. So then, it is not of him who wills (to be elected, chosen, and called), nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.” (Romans 9:11-16)
This is similar to what Jesus said in JN 15:16. God gives grace to whomever He chooses, and He chooses to give grace to whomever is willing to receive/accept it via faith in Him as Lord.
4. God wishes that all could be saved, but it is not possible because He insists on His justice
God administers justice to those who reject Christ's atonement on their behalf. As you cited, God is not willing/pleased that any (of us) should perish, but that all (of us) should repent … of our callousness per MT 13:14-15.
5. Those whom Father God gives to Jesus are guaranteed salvation
Salvation is conditional upon Christians remaining faithful until the end of their lives. I can post relevant Scripture on both sides of this issue if you would like.
LIC
I don't operate on wishes. If we are in Christ, then we are blessed. That's in scripture. I don't see any prayers or statements beginning with 'and then Paul wished everyone would just listen' or Moses wished the Israelites would obey God' Those statements are probably true on a personal level, but God operates on the faith level.
I do recognize your desire to end responding to me since the tactics you usually employ to undermine what a person may state, do not work with people who shave already addressed your particular beliefs and find them to be unfounded. The hologram reference made some posts back appears quite accurate in your case.
I do recognize your desire to end responding to me since the tactics you usually employ to undermine what a person may state, do not work with people who shave already addressed your particular beliefs and find them to be unfounded. The hologram reference made some posts back appears quite accurate in your case.
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Why don't we first focus on living the life and walking the walk so that God's lost children can see him in us and have hope and believe. Seems like a more enduring work than filling up the pews with a bunch of tares. I mean seriously, who in the US doesn't know about Jesus? What they rarely see is Jesus in Christians.
Honestly, I understand more and more why Paul said he only wanted to know Christ in people.
For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I Cor. 2:2
and the amplified says it like this:
for I made the decision to know nothing [that is, to forego philosophical or theological discussions regarding inconsequential things and opinions while] among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified [and the meaning of His redemptive, substitutionary death and His resurrection].
It becomes obvious that some people here wish only to press their beliefs on others and forego all actual discussion. I wonder if some of those same people have been turned aside from their church for doing that or perhaps do not attend church at all and therefore avoid all correction or questioning. A particular false belief of Calvinists seems to be that a person is first filled with the Holy Spirit in order to cause them to believe the gospel in faith. That is not even close to scripture. That is a perversion of how we are actually infilled by the Holy Spirit. Conversion to Christ must always come first. God does not throw His Spirit at people or otherwise violate our wills.
Of course the violation of the will is one of the main teachings of Calvinism.
For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I Cor. 2:2
and the amplified says it like this:
for I made the decision to know nothing [that is, to forego philosophical or theological discussions regarding inconsequential things and opinions while] among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified [and the meaning of His redemptive, substitutionary death and His resurrection].
It becomes obvious that some people here wish only to press their beliefs on others and forego all actual discussion. I wonder if some of those same people have been turned aside from their church for doing that or perhaps do not attend church at all and therefore avoid all correction or questioning. A particular false belief of Calvinists seems to be that a person is first filled with the Holy Spirit in order to cause them to believe the gospel in faith. That is not even close to scripture. That is a perversion of how we are actually infilled by the Holy Spirit. Conversion to Christ must always come first. God does not throw His Spirit at people or otherwise violate our wills.
Of course the violation of the will is one of the main teachings of Calvinism.
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