Understanding God’s election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,330
254
83
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect.
No, I worked harder than all of themyet not I, but the grace of God that was with me."
1 Corinthians 15:10


God's grace is God's Spirit's power on loan to the believer, to enable that believer to function as God wants that believer to be.

Without his grace enabling power, because of our flesh, no one could do His will.
Its our desire to do His will (after learning what it is) that opens the door for His power to be given.
But, not given when the desire to do His will is according to our own understanding of what God's will is.

That is why it's essential to find a teacher with spiritual integrity to teach us soundly the Word of God.
For God's ways are not our ways, and many assume to know God's way by assuming that God feels just like they do on a matter.

grace and peace .........
Do you have chapter and verse to prove your loan theory?
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,330
254
83
Grace is not a power. The holy spirit is God's power. And it's not on loan, it is our eternal possession.
Grace is indeed power. Did not God graciously exert great power against Pharaoh and and Egypt to free Abraham's children from their bondage? Or what about when God miraculously quenched the Israelites' thirst and hunger in the wilderness? Those were not acts of grace? Paul taught the Roman saints that sin shall no longer control them because now they are under grace -- clearly implying that grace is more powerful than sin (Rom 6:14), etc, etc.

Jesus himself is the very embodiment of Grace and Truth (Jn 1:14) and he very often manifested that grace through his miraculous powers. God's grace is not just some abstract, ambiguous idea. God's grace has been very active and effective in this world since the beginning of time.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,830
8,308
113
Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps this is why Jesus taught that both he and the truth would set men free? Unregenerate sinners need to be set free from all which enslaves them -- the world, the flesh (sin nature) and the devil. One free FROM all these, then man is free TO make right(eous) choices.
Truly redeemed souls sin day in and day out.
Its so bad we can never equalize the forgiveness equation with the necessary repenting and never will.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,330
254
83
Truly redeemed souls sin day in and day out.
Its so bad we can never equalize the forgiveness equation with the necessary repenting and never will.
But "truly redeemed souls" don't live in sin like unbelievers can only do.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,330
254
83
When you can control and direct how and when the Spirit empowers you?
Then, you own it.
In other words, you have no scripture to back up your nonsense. Just more childish conjecture. What if the Holy Spirit doesn't want to leave God's elect since God owns his elect. Why would the Lord want to give up what he owns? Don't you know that God's chosen people were bought at a great price (1Cor 6:20; 7:23)!?
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,816
416
83
But "truly redeemed souls" don't live in sin like unbelievers can only do.
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them;
they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 1 John 3:9​

God's Word says He will not let them "continue" in sin...

If they wish to continue to sin?
God will put it to a stop.
By the sin onto death .....


If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death,
you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin
does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying
that you should pray about that." 1 John 5:16

.......
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,816
416
83
In other words, you have no scripture to back up your nonsense. Just more childish conjecture. What if the Holy Spirit doesn't want to leave God's elect since God owns his elect. Why would the Lord want to give up what he owns? Don't you know that God's chosen people were bought at a great price (1Cor 6:20; 7:23)!?
Now I know why they stoned Stephen...
 
Nov 1, 2024
364
86
28
In Against Heresies, 1.6 Irenaeus said gnostics believed that grace was some thing they possessed that had descended from above and united with them to make them spiritual beings.

Gnostics "run us [Christians] down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed. For they declare that we simply receive grace for use, wherefore also it will again be taken away from us; but that they themselves have grace as their own special possession, which has descended from above by means of an unspeakable and indescribable conjunction; and on this account more will be given them. "
 
Oct 15, 2024
69
18
8
You're the one grasping at straws when you say that Calvinism doesn't believe that Jesus is the Way. Do you have something to back up that straw man statement?
I never said that. I said Calvin/Calvinism is not the way. Jesus is the Way (and the Truth and the Life also) Try working with what a person actually states instead of fabricating things.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,330
254
83
I never said that. I said Calvin/Calvinism is not the way. Jesus is the Way (and the Truth and the Life also) Try working with what a person actually states instead of fabricating things.
You're being dishonest. You drew a contrast between Calvinism and Jesus, as though Calvinists don't believe Jesus is the Way. The Doctrines of Grace are at the heart of Jesus' Gospel. Anything less is NOT the gospel.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,816
416
83
Have you never read that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable (Rom 11:29)?
You can easily lose the filling of the Spirit.
The gift is useless if one is walking after the energy of his flesh...

Just be dumb about what God's Word actually tells us, and you will be stepping out all the time!
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,816
416
83
You're being dishonest. You drew a contrast between Calvinism and Jesus, as though Calvinists don't believe Jesus is the Way. The Doctrines of Grace are at the heart of Jesus' Gospel. Anything less is NOT the gospel.
Jesus is the Way. He is the Word understood ACCURATELY.

Calvin was a good student of the Scriptures. It's those who followed him that gave us TULIP. Not Calvin.

So, what we now call Calvinism would be better to be called Bezaism, more appropriately named after Theodore Beza, who was a disciple of John Calvin. Those disciples were the ones who screwed up the thinking.

Do a search... " Theodore Beza gave us TULIP "
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,281
555
113
I never said that. I said Calvin/Calvinism is not the way. Jesus is the Way (and the Truth and the Life also) Try working with what a person actually states instead of fabricating things.
Actually Calvinism is the Gospel of Gods Grace,TULIP so if you reject it as the way, you reject the way of Christ and Grace !