Peace in the middle east
- Thread starter JTB
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I have DECADES on intensive study on the subject. Here's my work if you have the stones to read it:
https://sites.google.com/view/whatwilltheendbelike/home
So I'm not smug. I'M WELL INFORMED.
https://sites.google.com/view/whatwilltheendbelike/home
So I'm not smug. I'M WELL INFORMED.
Let's take a look at these verses:
These very clearly state that in the end many of God's people will be deceived into turning away from His truth and their true faith.
Deceived means YOU DON'T REALIZE IT IS HAPPENING.
God warned us because HE was us to realize it is going to happen.
So what would it take to realize it is happening?
TO NOT BE BLINDED BY POLARIZING IDEOLOGIES, to see BOTH side of an issue clearly.
If all you see is "blue bad, red great", then you my friends are blinded, and open to deception.
Deception that WILL unknowingly cost some their faith.
These very clearly state that in the end many of God's people will be deceived into turning away from His truth and their true faith.
Deceived means YOU DON'T REALIZE IT IS HAPPENING.
God warned us because HE was us to realize it is going to happen.
So what would it take to realize it is happening?
TO NOT BE BLINDED BY POLARIZING IDEOLOGIES, to see BOTH side of an issue clearly.
If all you see is "blue bad, red great", then you my friends are blinded, and open to deception.
Deception that WILL unknowingly cost some their faith.
To quote you: "Once you resort to insults, you admit your arguments aren't enough."
The fundamental question in the Stop the Steal rallies was to audit the elections. We now have 18 million votes missing without any explanation. That is by definition evidence. It may not be conclusive, but to say their is no evidence is absurd. There is a long list of evidence.
I have posted what i consider to be the evidence in Jan 6th #92, what part of that do you disagree with? It has all been conclusively shown.
Sure it was. I said the MSM manipulates people and gaslights them and asked if you were one of those who were simply repeating the narrative they have laid down.
The fundamental question in the Stop the Steal rallies was to audit the elections. We now have 18 million votes missing without any explanation. That is by definition evidence. It may not be conclusive, but to say their is no evidence is absurd. There is a long list of evidence.
I have posted what i consider to be the evidence in Jan 6th #92, what part of that do you disagree with? It has all been conclusively shown.
Sure it was. I said the MSM manipulates people and gaslights them and asked if you were one of those who were simply repeating the narrative they have laid down.
The fundamental question for me about January 6th
1. Have they answered the concerns about election fraud?
No.
2. Has the concern about election fraud gone away, diminished, or grown and gotten worse?
It has gotten worse.
3. Is this a trivial question or fundamental to our Republic?
It is fundamental to our Republic.
4. Is there a valid reason why they would not do audits for the election process in all 50 states?
No.
5. Are they being honest and transparent about this or are they being deceitful and gaslighting people?
They are being deceitful. People are asking for an audit and they tell them "they did a recount". Not the same thing, not even close to the same thing. They do not even allow people to examine the machines that count the votes. They don't do a canvass. They don't even present the ballots in some cases.
6. Has this issue been resolved now that Trump won?
No. Why is it that a week after the election they are still counting votes? This is brazenly corrupt.
7. Let's agree that 70 people behaved criminally during January 6th and the majority of those people were supporters of Trump. Does that mean that the 500,000 to 1,000,000 people at that rally behaved criminally?
No.
8. Does that mean that we can no longer raise the issue of election fraud?
No.
9. Should every supporter of Trump be castigated for what those 70 people did?
No.
So then why is this even an issue?
10. Was it a violent insurrection?
No.
11. Was it violent?
Not by the Trump supporters, but some hoodlums did break glass, and the police did kill at least one protestor.
12. Was it an insurrection?
No.
13. So then why is this relevant at all when talking about Trump supporters or election fraud?
Don't know, but that question needs to be answered as well.
1. Have they answered the concerns about election fraud?
No.
2. Has the concern about election fraud gone away, diminished, or grown and gotten worse?
It has gotten worse.
3. Is this a trivial question or fundamental to our Republic?
It is fundamental to our Republic.
4. Is there a valid reason why they would not do audits for the election process in all 50 states?
No.
5. Are they being honest and transparent about this or are they being deceitful and gaslighting people?
They are being deceitful. People are asking for an audit and they tell them "they did a recount". Not the same thing, not even close to the same thing. They do not even allow people to examine the machines that count the votes. They don't do a canvass. They don't even present the ballots in some cases.
6. Has this issue been resolved now that Trump won?
No. Why is it that a week after the election they are still counting votes? This is brazenly corrupt.
7. Let's agree that 70 people behaved criminally during January 6th and the majority of those people were supporters of Trump. Does that mean that the 500,000 to 1,000,000 people at that rally behaved criminally?
No.
8. Does that mean that we can no longer raise the issue of election fraud?
No.
9. Should every supporter of Trump be castigated for what those 70 people did?
No.
So then why is this even an issue?
10. Was it a violent insurrection?
No.
11. Was it violent?
Not by the Trump supporters, but some hoodlums did break glass, and the police did kill at least one protestor.
12. Was it an insurrection?
No.
13. So then why is this relevant at all when talking about Trump supporters or election fraud?
Don't know, but that question needs to be answered as well.
Yes, let's talk about the hypocrisy of those who see January 6th as such a stain on America. By far the worst event from the protestors on that day was the pipe bomb left at the DNC. There can be no denial of this, it is by far the absolute most heinous, criminal and violent event done by the protestors for Jan 6th.
The good news is we have a video tape of the man who planted the bomb. He talked to both the capital police and the Secret Service that were parked there after planting the bomb.
So then, why hasn't he been charged, arrested and convicted?
There can be no clearer evidence of "an insurrection". Arrest this guy.
Grandmothers and grandfathers were arrested, no criminal record, no weapon, and yet they still haven't arrested, charged, and convicted this man? Isn't that astounding?
The good news is we have a video tape of the man who planted the bomb. He talked to both the capital police and the Secret Service that were parked there after planting the bomb.
So then, why hasn't he been charged, arrested and convicted?
There can be no clearer evidence of "an insurrection". Arrest this guy.
Grandmothers and grandfathers were arrested, no criminal record, no weapon, and yet they still haven't arrested, charged, and convicted this man? Isn't that astounding?
This was Gods promise to Abraham 'That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy'
this is the promise that God gave Hagar the Egyptian
'For God spoke unto Hagar and said, “And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.” (Genesis 17:20)
There are 14 nations in the Middle east excluding Israel but there just so happens to be 12 nations that have the equivalent of a king (7 Sheikhs, 2 kings, 2 emirs, and 1 sultan.)
12He will be a wild donkey of a man, and his hand will be against everyone, and everyone’s hand against him; he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.”
Ishmael only had one brother Isaac so the brothers God talks about here have to be the nations that comes from Ishmael. Then they will live in hostility of all his brothers means that they will stay close. But God says Ishmeal will beget twelve nations.
this is the promise that God gave Hagar the Egyptian
'For God spoke unto Hagar and said, “And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.” (Genesis 17:20)
There are 14 nations in the Middle east excluding Israel but there just so happens to be 12 nations that have the equivalent of a king (7 Sheikhs, 2 kings, 2 emirs, and 1 sultan.)
12He will be a wild donkey of a man, and his hand will be against everyone, and everyone’s hand against him; he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.”
Ishmael only had one brother Isaac so the brothers God talks about here have to be the nations that comes from Ishmael. Then they will live in hostility of all his brothers means that they will stay close. But God says Ishmeal will beget twelve nations.
This was Gods promise to Abraham 'That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy'
this is the promise that God gave Hagar the Egyptian
'For God spoke unto Hagar and said, “And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.” (Genesis 17:20)
There are 14 nations in the Middle east excluding Israel but there just so happens to be 12 nations that have the equivalent of a king (7 Sheikhs, 2 kings, 2 emirs, and 1 sultan.)
12He will be a wild donkey of a man, and his hand will be against everyone, and everyone’s hand against him; he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.”
Ishmael only had one brother Isaac so the brothers God talks about here have to be the nations that comes from Ishmael. Then they will live in hostility of all his brothers means that they will stay close. But God says Ishmeal will beget twelve nations.
this is the promise that God gave Hagar the Egyptian
'For God spoke unto Hagar and said, “And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.” (Genesis 17:20)
There are 14 nations in the Middle east excluding Israel but there just so happens to be 12 nations that have the equivalent of a king (7 Sheikhs, 2 kings, 2 emirs, and 1 sultan.)
12He will be a wild donkey of a man, and his hand will be against everyone, and everyone’s hand against him; he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.”
Ishmael only had one brother Isaac so the brothers God talks about here have to be the nations that comes from Ishmael. Then they will live in hostility of all his brothers means that they will stay close. But God says Ishmeal will beget twelve nations.
Genesis 16:10-12 meaning
The angel of the Lord promised Hagar she will have numerous descendants. He tells her to name the baby “Ishmael” and that he will, unlike Hagar, be a free and independent man who will bow to no one.
The divine command is followed by a divine promise. Encouraging Hagar, the angel promises she will have numerous descendants even while her first child is in her womb, saying, I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they will be too many to count (v 10). This was similar to the promise given to Abram (Genesis 12:1-3, 15:1-6). God blessed Ishmael as Abram's descendant, but not as the line chosen to fulfill God's covenant with Abram. That blessing was reserved for Abram's chosen heir, who will be Isaac. This promise given to Hagar is fulfilled in a multitude of peoples (Genesis 25:13-16).
The angel told Hagar,You will bear a son and you shall call his name Ishmael (v 11). Ishmael means "God hears." God had listened to her and acknowledged her complaint. The Lord has given heed to your affliction (v 11), the angel tells Hagar. It is interesting here that Sarai had asked God to judge between her and Abram, with respect to Hagar's treatment of her (Genesis 16:5). Abram declined to mediate, yet God intercedes. He answers Sarai's request and His mediation restores the relationship. Sarai retains authority, but Hagar is promised her descendants will be liberated.
He will be a wild donkey of a man (v 12) indicates that like a wild donkey, Ishmael will have no masters. He will be independent, and hard to oppress (Job 24:5; Hosea 8:9). His hand will be against everyone, And everyone's hand will be against him (v 12) indicates that Ishmael as well as his descendants will remain unconquered and independent (Genesis 25:18). After becoming Abram's wife, Hagar had been delivered back into Sarai's power (Genesis 16:6). This is literally translated into Sarai's "hand." By saying his hand will be against everyone the passage is saying he will have power to resist oppression from others. He will not be ruled.
While Hagar is asked to submit to Sarai, who has been a harsh master, she can do so with confidence in God's promise that her son will submit to no one. She may be oppressed, but through Ishmael her descendants will be free of oppression.
Ishmael would become the father of a great nation. Unlike his mother, he would not be a servant of others. Ishmael would have sufficient strength and resolve to resist capture and subjugation.
The phrase he will live to the east (v 12) seems puzzling to fit into the context. A literal rendering would be "before the face of his brethren." Some translations interpret "before the face" as "he will live in hostility toward his brethren." However, there is nothing in the text that indicates that "before the face" means hostility. In verse 6, Hagar fled "from the face" of Sarai, meaning from her presence. This phrase is better rendered "he will dwell in the presence of his brethren." The Bible records the sons of Ishmael joining with the sons of Isaac at the burial of Abraham (Genesis 25:9). No hostility between Israelites and Ishmaelites is noted in Genesis. Jacob's sons sell their brother Joseph to a caravan of Ishmaelites heading to Egypt (Genesis 37:25). But the episode appears simply as a commercial transaction. Also, Esau will take a wife from Ishmael's people (Genesis 28:9). Both instances support the idea that the Ishmaelites would be in the vicinity.
There are twelve sons of Ishmael (Genesis 25:16). Much later in the history of Israel, there are Ishmaelites who integrate into Israel (1 Chronicles 2:17; 27:30). Also much later, there are adversarial interactions. Gideon delivers Israel from oppressing Ishmaelites (Judges 8:24). And Psalm 83:6, written in the era of the kings of Judah, speaks of Ishmaelites who seek harm to Israel.