God's Elect: This Ends Any Debate

[DavyP]

One of the most important Bible Chapters that reveals what God's election is about is with Lord Jesus' prayer in John 17 just prior to His being delivered up to be crucified.

Jesus revealed 2 different groups of believers in John 17:

1. His elect Apostles, prophets, patriarchs. Jesus showed The Father originally owned them, and gave them to Jesus. He thus will often directly intervene in their lives to serve Him. This is why Lord Jesus directly intervened with Saul (Apostle Paul), converting him on the road to Damascus when Saul was persecuting the Church (Acts 9). The word apostle means to be 'sent'. Jesus said He sent these into the world, and that they are not of the world. Likewise with Jonah, he tried to get out of his duty that God gave him, but God made him fulfill it. Ownership, that's what this group is about. He already owned them before this present world. These represent Christ's "very elect". Calvinists often wrongly... apply this group to every believer, but that is not what Lord Jesus showed in John 17.

2. Those who must believe by using their own free will represent the majority of believers on The Father and The Son. This second group Jesus revealed is by their believing by His Apostle's word (i.e., preaching of The Gospel). These still can use their free will to fall away, and God will allow it and will not intervene unless they repent and ask Him.

Then Jesus prayed that BOTH groups would become 'one' in Him and The Father.

This means that the 1st group, His "very elect", cannot... fall away, because He already owns them.

But the 2nd group of believers can fall away by their own choice, and they only become part of His election while they remain walking in Christ Jesus.

This is why man's 'Once Saved, Always Saved' doctrine is not Biblical. For the majority of us, we must... remain walking in Christ Jesus until the end, and beware of being deceived by Satan and his host. This is why Christ and His Apostles, especially Apostle Paul, gave so many warnings against falling away, especially for those in the last days. It is why He warned us about the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah that must come first playing God with the power to do miracles like Jesus Christ.

 

[HeIsHere]

I feel like this is my only thought on the subject presently...

 

[Cameron143]

I'm glad this debate is over. Are there any more you can put to rest?

 

[DRobinson]

I just love these people who give their opinion and tell us "that's it, no question about it, end of discussion".

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Gods elect is Jesus

“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:1, 3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and those who believe and are baptized into him , become the elect in him

Notice the groups of people jew or gentile male or female doesn’t matter but o my Jesus matters

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s the elect that’s why faith in him is required to be saved all of us are lost he lives forever and reigns he’s given us the way to enter our nto his body the elect of God is everyone in Christ

 

[p_rehbein]

As best I can remember, this is the 1hunderedthousandth Thread that ends the debate concerning OSAS.

 

[brightfame52]

One of the most important Bible Chapters that reveals what God's election is about is with Lord Jesus' prayer in John 17 just prior to His being delivered up to be crucified.

Jesus revealed 2 different groups of believers in John 17:

1. His elect Apostles, prophets, patriarchs. Jesus showed The Father originally owned them, and gave them to Jesus. He thus will often directly intervene in their lives to serve Him. This is why Lord Jesus directly intervened with Saul (Apostle Paul), converting him on the road to Damascus when Saul was persecuting the Church (Acts 9). The word apostle means to be 'sent'. Jesus said He sent these into the world, and that they are not of the world. Likewise with Jonah, he tried to get out of his duty that God gave him, but God made him fulfill it. Ownership, that's what this group is about. He already owned them before this present world. These represent Christ's "very elect". Calvinists often wrongly... apply this group to every believer, but that is not what Lord Jesus showed in John 17.

2. Those who must believe by using their own free will represent the majority of believers on The Father and The Son. This second group Jesus revealed is by their believing by His Apostle's word (i.e., preaching of The Gospel). These still can use their free will to fall away, and God will allow it and will not intervene unless they repent and ask Him.

Then Jesus prayed that BOTH groups would become 'one' in Him and The Father.

This means that the 1st group, His "very elect", cannot... fall away, because He already owns them.

But the 2nd group of believers can fall away by their own choice, and they only become part of His election while they remain walking in Christ Jesus.

This is why man's 'Once Saved, Always Saved' doctrine is not Biblical. For the majority of us, we must... remain walking in Christ Jesus until the end, and beware of being deceived by Satan and his host. This is why Christ and His Apostles, especially Apostle Paul, gave so many warnings against falling away, especially for those in the last days. It is why He warned us about the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah that must come first playing God with the power to do miracles like Jesus Christ.

All believers belong to the first group, they're all one family/body chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

 

[brightfame52]

@Pilgrimshope

Gods elect is Jesus

And so is His Body the Church, for Jesus is the Head and would be incomplete without a Body, so where the Head is Elect, so is His Body, theyre one. Heb 2:11

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

John Gill writes :

all of one: they are both of one God and Father, Christ's God is their God, and his Father is their Father; they are of one body, Christ is the head, and they are members; they are of one covenant, Christ is the surety, Mediator, and messenger of it, and they share in all its blessings and promises; they are of one man, Adam, Christ is a Son of Adam, though not by ordinary generation, they descend from him in the common way; they are all of one nature, of one blood; Christ has took part of the same flesh and blood with them:

 

[DavyP]

All believers belong to the first group, they're all one family/body chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

That would have to mean that you place all believers in the category of Christ's Apostles.

Your idea is easy to disprove. Who all did Lord Jesus promise that would sit upon 12 thrones over Israel in His future Kingdom? Sitting upon those 12 thrones over the 12 tribes of Israel in His Kingdom is not ordained for all believers.

When you first believed, did Jesus appear to you like He did His Apostles and tell you, "follow Me"? Did Jesus strike you down blind on your way to somewhere, and convert you to Him, like He did with Apostle Paul? Did Jesus claim you were His "chosen vessel" to take The Gospel to the Gentiles like He did with Apostle Paul?

Or maybe you think God is still giving more of His written Word to modern day prophets like He did with His Old Testament prophets? If so, then that's an easy way to be duped by the devil, because Bible prophecy as written that God presented to His prophets has already been given; it's just a matter of the completion of its fulfillment.

 

[DavyP]

I just love these people who give their opinion and tell us "that's it, no question about it, end of discussion".

That mocking reveals that you think highly of yourself. It certainly does not show any Biblical understanding.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

this is the second thread in a month where the one who posted the thread said argument over. Or irrefutable evidence. Or whatever.

It is also the second thread that caught my eye. But the OP failed to prove their point. In fact. He failed to even properly show what Jesus said in the chapter he spoke of.

I also do not think I have ever seen a person who believes prety much in calvinism and Arminianism in one post (free will vs no free will)

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

this is the second thread in a month where the one who posted the thread said argument over. Or irrefutable evidence. Or whatever.

It is also the second thread that caught my eye. But the OP failed to prove their point. In fact. He failed to even properly show what Jesus said in the chapter he spoke of.

I also do not think I have ever seen a person who believes prety much in calvinism and Arminianism in one post (free will vs no free will)

Lol I must say, this is a new one! Got to give them an e for effort,

 

[p_rehbein]

That mocking reveals that you think highly of yourself. It certainly does not show any Biblical understanding.

It's not mocking. You can't begin to imagine how many Threads have been posted here on CC stating the same thing you did. "End of discussion." There is no post that can end discussion, not even posts that contain only Scripture.

FYI: I do not believe OSAS as taught by various groups. Truth is, they would be better served to change it to Once SANCTIFIED, Always Sanctified. Those who are sanctified have matured in their walk with Christ that they can not imagine ever leaving Him. The Apostles showed this numerous times through their faith remaining strong regardless of what they suffered. Even those put to death remained strong in their faith.

Please do not copy the critical style some come here use. Your understanding of Scripture is your understanding. Just as is mine, and all others here. That does not make them Biblical Truth. The Holy Spirit reveals understanding to believers at the level of maturity the believer has attained. The Apostle Paul shows this when referring to those who could only sup on milk and honey, not yet mature enough to feast on the meat of the Word.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It's not mocking. You can't begin to imagine how many Threads have been posted here on CC stating the same thing you did. "End of discussion." There is no post that can end discussion, not even posts that contain only Scripture.

FYI: I do not believe OSAS as taught by various groups. Truth is, they would be better served to change it to Once SANCTIFIED, Always Sanctified. Those who are sanctified have matured in their walk with Christ that they can not imagine ever leaving Him. The Apostles showed this numerous times through their faith remaining strong regardless of what they suffered. Even those put to death remained strong in their faith.

Please do not copy the critical style some come here use. Your understanding of Scripture is your understanding. Just as is mine, and all others here. That does not make them Biblical Truth. The Holy Spirit reveals understanding to believers at the level of maturity the believer has attained. The Apostle Paul shows this when referring to those who could only sup on milk and honey, not yet mature enough to feast on the meat of the Word.

Even sanctified mature people have walked away, I know I was one of them.

God saves us, he gave us eternal life. He said he will never leave nor forsake us. Sorry, but there is no where you can go where God is not there. Also as Jesus said, He will leave the whole flock to go get his sheep. His true sheep (those truely saved) will return. Those who are not his true sheep will not return which in effect lets us know who they are.

finally. I was perfected forever the moment i reached out and trusted God in salvation. In this faith he gave me the power to be Gods child (john 1) he said i will never perish, and I have eternal life (john 3) He said I drank the living water, flowing to eternal life (john 4) he said I have passed from judgment to life. I have ate the food which endures forever. i will never be lost, I will Never hunger or thirst. i will be raised on the last day etc etc.

Paul adds to this saying I have not only been made a child of God. I was given the HS as a seal three times in his writings.

I can go on and on.

We begin as babes in christ. Some will remain babes and never mature. But they are still gods children, Some will mature greatly as Paul did, ran the race until the end.. But everyone of them will be resurrected by CHrist himself on the last day.

 

[tourist]

I feel like this is my only thought on the subject presently...

My fave is Cookie Monster. He tells it like it is. Time to get real.

 

[homwardbound]

This is why man's 'Once Saved, Always Saved' doctrine is not Biblical.

You take away, it is once saved by God always saved by God in risen Son. God reveals God, even though one still does wrong, and once sees this unfathomable love to any flesh nature, one changes from inside out, seeing things that are not good for his soul, one leaves these behind willingly by Choice God leading, never by having to or else attitudes of flesh nature.
God did it by Son for anyone to turn to God in belief God raised Son Jesus from the dead, and then God seals them to see truth over error, through gift of God's Holy Spirit to them, free of charge ever.

Yes, belief to continue is needed.To not give up. Who will once see the whole truth, that Father reveals? I won't, can't and no other that sees it will in my honest new thought process
Once go through all the troubles and not stop belief, not deny God (Job) no matter what, one will eventually (If) (Since) will be willing, one will see the whole truth as Martin Luther King saw it, when he said "I see the Light" even though died not long afterwards, He is saved by God not man at all, not even himself ever. If anyone could do it, do the resurrection and if it has not happened, then the cross is in Vain, and the risen One will not flow through anyone's veins
1 Cor 15, has deep things to say about this trouble about unbelief, people bringing doubt into the salvation freely given by God Father through Son to us all. Thanks at least to me this I see after a long walk off a short pier daily
God just loves us all y'all, time to believe and not leave that behind you or add to it as has been being done ever since the resurrection that does the saving. Please, especially quit taking away from it's amazing truth God's grace
given you is deeply true, that no first born flesh natured person can fathom
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 3:34
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(The water here talked of is Flesh, read the next verse to see it clear, please
Time to react to God and not play God anymore

 

[Pilgrimshope]

@Pilgrimshope



And so is His Body the Church, for Jesus is the Head and would be incomplete without a Body, so where the Head is Elect, so is His Body, theyre one. Heb 2:11

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

John Gill writes :

Yeah that’s why I went on and wuoted this

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ( gods elect ) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.( the elect ) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That would have to mean that you place all believers in the category of Christ's Apostles.

Your idea is easy to disprove. Who all did Lord Jesus promise that would sit upon 12 thrones over Israel in His future Kingdom? Sitting upon those 12 thrones over the 12 tribes of Israel in His Kingdom is not ordained for all believers.

When you first believed, did Jesus appear to you like He did His Apostles and tell you, "follow Me"? Did Jesus strike you down blind on your way to somewhere, and convert you to Him, like He did with Apostle Paul? Did Jesus claim you were His "chosen vessel" to take The Gospel to the Gentiles like He did with Apostle Paul?

Or maybe you think God is still giving more of His written Word to modern day prophets like He did with His Old Testament prophets? If so, then that's an easy way to be duped by the devil, because Bible prophecy as written that God presented to His prophets has already been given; it's just a matter of the completion of its fulfillment.

anen the apostles were special and chosen

“And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[DavyP]

Even sanctified mature people have walked away, I know I was one of them.

....

We begin as babes in christ. Some will remain babes and never mature. But they are still gods children, Some will mature greatly as Paul did, ran the race until the end.. But everyone of them will be resurrected by CHrist himself on the last day.

Thinking that all fellow-believers on Jesus Christ will never fall away nor be deceived is the definition of wishful thinking, and is not a doctrine of The New Testament.

Apostle Paul speaking to Timothy...

2 Tim 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
KJV


I estimate that at least half of brethren that come to Christian forums don't have much clue about Christ's and His Apostle's warnings of a coming false-Messiah to Jerusalem at the end with the power of miracles to deceive the whole world; and that he will deceive even the Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem as their Messiah they are waiting for. How then will my fellow-brethren act when that false-Messiah shows up at the end, and their deceived Church pastors tell them that's our Lord Jesus??

 

[DavyP]

You take away, it is once saved by God always saved by God in risen Son. God reveals God, even though one still does wrong, and once sees this unfathomable love to any flesh nature, one changes from inside out, seeing things that are not good for his soul, one leaves these behind willingly by Choice God leading, never by having to or else attitudes of flesh nature.
God did it by Son for anyone to turn to God in belief God raised Son Jesus from the dead, and then God seals them to see truth over error, through gift of God's Holy Spirit to them, free of charge ever.

Yes, belief to continue is needed.To not give up. Who will once see the whole truth, that Father reveals? I won't, can't and no other that sees it will in my honest new thought process
Once go through all the troubles and not stop belief, not deny God (Job) no matter what, one will eventually (If) (Since) will be willing, one will see the whole truth as Martin Luther King saw it, when he said "I see the Light" even though died not long afterwards, He is saved by God not man at all, not even himself ever. If anyone could do it, do the resurrection and if it has not happened, then the cross is in Vain, and the risen One will not flow through anyone's veins
1 Cor 15, has deep things to say about this trouble about unbelief, people bringing doubt into the salvation freely given by God Father through Son to us all. Thanks at least to me this I see after a long walk off a short pier daily
God just loves us all y'all, time to believe and not leave that behind you or add to it as has been being done ever since the resurrection that does the saving. Please, especially quit taking away from it's amazing truth God's grace
given you is deeply true, that no first born flesh natured person can fathom
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 3:34
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(The water here talked of is Flesh, read the next verse to see it clear, please
Time to react to God and not play God anymore

See my Post #19.