The Role of Apostolic Ministry

homwardbound · Nov 18, 2024

It relates to all Father's children
A fish as tiny as a mustard seed, can say to a mountain, move over to the ocean and it will!
Yet, just a modicum of unbelief in that truth given us, it will not.
Nor will it if one is using this gift for their own pleasures
I see this gift on a need be basis. I see the attacks from evil of people and evil supporting these people in their own wants to get given them if they bow down and worship them as satan said to Jesus when the devil tried to get Jesus under his thumb in trying to tempt him. Amazing truth in there to see you got given everything you need for life and Godliness. Just ask Father for the discernment, as use it wisely
I have seen enemies, evil flesh go after people, me as well. All I know and saw was God standing right there besides me and then spoke through me to them, as I saw them stopped in their tracks coming after me to harm me and they couldn't. wow as in Isaiah 6:1-7. It takers standing no doubting, just have. a modicum of doubt, a maybe, a should have, a could have and you are not being established by God in that particular process of belief to God or not

Isaiah 7:9
And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah’s son. If ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established.
Isaiah 16:5
And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
Isaiah 45:18
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there isnone else.

Isaiah 54:14
In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.

This is belief beyond any shadow of any doubt, that is what is done for us in belief to the Son as risen where new life is given presently and forever,

John 10:28
and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Aaron56 · Nov 18, 2024

ResidentAlien said:

To RA's point I would be wary of any ministry that ties a gift to itself: prophetic ministry, apostolic ministry, evangelical ministry, etc. The gifts are given to the Body of Christ FOR the Body of Christ. What typically occurs is the one who is gifted becomes the leader of that ministry. You will not find such an arrangement in the New Testament. Simon the sorcerer wanted such a ministry and was quickly rebuked by Peter.

All gifts are meant to build up the Body of Christ but only one gift is sent from the Body: the apostle. It's what the word means "sent one".

You may think of a "sent one" like a ambassador. Paul even used that term to describe himself:

"..and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains..."

If we tie it to our earthly understanding, an ambassador must intimately know the throne they represent. Furthermore, a true ambassador has no opinion of his own, he can only speak the view of the one he represents. He is the least free believer, restrained by the Lord in his duty to represent the Throne.

The fact that we have all these different "apostolic ministries" that often contradict one another should make us wary of them all. The King of kings is not double-minded. The enemy is behind such things as an attempt to get us to reject authentic grace from God.

When I teach at various places I make it known I represent the Lord. Often, people will ask "Are you an apostle?" I tell them that it is for them to decide. I get one of two answers: "Good, I'm glad you didn't say yes because there are no more apostles." This person's mind was already made up. The other answer is "I think you are." To which I say, "Then may you will receive the grace the Lord has given me." The latter group are the ones I have built with. Many of them are my closest friends.

P.S. Regarding ambassadors... In the US the Secretary of State is the chief advisor for foreign affairs. They oversee all US ambassadors. In my opinion, they are the second most influential executive leader after the president.

Pilgrimshope · Nov 18, 2024

p_rehbein said:

“Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

‭‭John‬ ‭6:70‬ ‭

“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Judas was lost leaving eleven

“Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:16, 18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

At this point the risen lord has appeared to and chosen and appointed and given authority to eleven men to preach the gospel to all people jew and gentile .

The only other man Jesus appears to chooses appoints and gives this same authority and commission to is Paul . Jesus actually appears to Paul and chooses him after he died and rose like the other eleven

Matthias is “numbered with the elecen “ based on peters decision to cast lots before they receive the Holy Spirit

This “

“And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭

This isn’t how an apostle is chosen an apostle has to be chosen by Jesus who they see after he rose and they have to be chosen by him appointed for that purpose given the same power Jesus had they raised the dead healed the sick drove out demons ect

It isn’t the same as the eleven and pall chosen when Jesus appeared to them and gave them the commission of an apostle

Matthias was chosen by casting lots barnabus chosen by Paul and then blessed by a group of church meme wra but my point was that Jesus only chose twelve apostles not Matthias but Paul is the twelth man Jesus chose and appointed apostle

Only twelve of them were chosen and appointed by Jesus is my point

“And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

homwardbound · Nov 18, 2024

Aaron56 said:

thank you for the post
An Ambassador to me is
A representer
A US Ambassador is to go over and represent the United States and encourage others to live in the US in its freedom given
Christ Ambassador represents the freedom of God given in the risen Son fro them to be freed in.
Not to use it for any self gain as people do as you mentioned Simon the sorcerer wanted
seeing, to be God's Ambassador in the risen Son to do the work needed to get done through me, which is the done work of Son for us all to love another for real and not for any self gain, thanks
Listen, they tell you the truth, they do not do it the truth, please be wise to this using and not do it too
they seek proselytes, and try to make them twice as evil as themselves in getting money from people to live voluptuously
Be wise yet remain harmless, the tis the not so easy part, too be aware and remain harmless amazing, trusting you Father all in all, staying willing to learn as Jesus revealed "Not my will be done" Your will Father, thank you

wattie · Nov 18, 2024

GWH said:

I know this reasoning, but am not comfortable with it. With manuscript evidence.. oldest doesn’t always mean best.

For eg.. you get writing based on manuscript that is later than others... but the testimony of early churches is they used the passage in the earliest lectionaries and sermons.

Age isnt the only test to apply.

Aside from this.. all you need to do is apply solid biblical interpretation that puts things in their right context.

homwardbound · Nov 18, 2024

wattie said:

okay, thank you as we each grow daily in learning new, and for =me being willing is key to me that opens the porters door, that be what I see to let all be as they see, and trust God to do God's dome work of Son as in

Romans 14:1-4

Authorized (King James) Version

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Aaron56 · Nov 18, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Why does Paul, himself, acknowledge 'the twelve' if he was a member already?

"..and that He (Christ) was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve."

Here, Paul counted Matthias among "the twelve" Paul gives this fact as evidence for the truth of the gospel.

Also, 1 Thessalonians includes Silvanus and Timothy as apostles. The letter is written by Paul, Silvanus and Timothy.

"Nor did we seek glory from men, either from you or from others, when we might have made demands as apostles of Christ."

Paul also notes James as an apostle:

"But I saw none of the other apostles, save James the Lord's brother."

Also, how do you deal with Barnabas being called an apostle?

"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this,they tore their clothes..."

Here is how Barnabas and Paul were distinguished as apostles:

"Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away."

The Holy Spirit said... Where was this written? Of course it wasn't written. The teachers and prophets heard this directly from the Spirit.

And then the Holy Spirit, by inspiring the scripture, clearly calls Barnabas an apostle:

"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this,they tore their clothes..."

The Spirit does only what He sees the Lord do. If the Spirit chose Barnabas the Lord chose Barnabas.

This is the authority of the Holy Spirit: He only speaks what He hears from the Lord:

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. "

Before one might say "Yeah, but, Paul and Barnabas split and we never hear from Barnabas again. Also, Barnabas never wrote anything of the New testament."

Consider this: There are only 9 authors of the New testament. Matt, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, and the writer of Hebrews. The writer of James was not the Apostle James, James died before it was written. Mark was an associate of Peter and Paul and not among the 12. So now we're left with 7 authors. Even if we include Paul among the Twelve and assume Hebrews was written by an unnamed Apostle, 5 Apostles of the Lamb wrote nothing of the New Testament. So "writing part of the Bible" is not a qualifier for apostleship.

Magenta · Nov 18, 2024

Mary Magdalene was the first person Jesus sent forth to testify of His post-crucifixion resurrection.

Pilgrimshope · Nov 18, 2024

Aaron56 said:

Why would t he acknolwedge the twelfth man Peter chose ? He was also a disciple of Jesus and had seen him raised from the dead also . I’m not saying Matthias wasn’t “ numbered “ with the eleven

I’m saying Jesus himself in person chose only twelve men and gave them authority to be his witnesses to preach the gospel and receive the revelations the apostles did and had the authority the apostles had

I’m saying there are only twelve men in the Bible that the risen lord Jesus gave the commission of an apostle in person.

My argument is that these twelve names are the names of the twelve apostles of the lamb

The ones he himself the only ones he actually sent to preach the gospel to all people jew and gentile and my reasoning brother is this

“And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias;

and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭

Is not the same as this

“Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. …And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:16, 18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Nor what happened with Paul who also was called in person by the Risen lord and given revelation and authority for apostleship. To preach the gospel to all the world

it’s why everyone accepts the Bible still it’s annointed remember Jesus told them the world would believe through thier words who he had chosen ?

I’m not saying “ they didn’t cast lots and number matthias with the group of twelve “

I’m saying Jesus himself appeared to enabled chose and appointed only twelve men in the Bible to be apostles . Casting lots isn’t how an apostle is chosen it’s when Jesus the lord chooses you.

And he chose Paul , Along with the eleven . And spoon red the aposltes to establish the faith

“I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition;( Judas ) that the scripture might be fulfilled.

I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:6, 8-9, 12, 14-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Eleven and then Paul who makes the argument event though he saw and was called later than the others he too was an apostle

It makes sense to me brother Jesus only actually himself called twelve men the other was casting lots and there’s are twelve names

That’s my position but it’s not something I need to be right about just seems the twelve names are … the twelve apostles Jesus actually chose the same way and gave authority to be his witnesses

happen also to be the same ones that we today still rely on thier witness in the Bible they wrote it down . It’s one of the reasons i hold scriptire itself above what I think or someone else thinks I know it came from his apostles who witnessed it all . When it happened

of course luke for instance wasn’t an apostle but he was a witness keeping a true record and a follower of Jesus himself just he wasn’t one of the twelve men Jesus actually chose after he rose and sent to all people

amazing

Pilgrimshope · Nov 18, 2024

Magenta said:

but did he give he authority to build his church ?

“Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:16, 18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and then remember the risen lord appears to Paul as well calling him to the same apostolic role

There are many disciples and witnesses but twelve apostles authority wise it’s a mirror of the old covenants twelve tribes who were the “fathers “ of Israel’s tribes

Aaron56 · Nov 18, 2024

Paul acknowledges the 12 which included Matthias. Was he not inspired by the Holy Spirit?

I agree there are only 12 Apostles of the Lambs who's names are written on the foundation seen in Revelation.

Regardless, if you don't include Matthias, what of Barnabas, Silas, Timothy, James... all called apostles?

The original 12 had to be a "witness" to the Jews. Their standard of witness was to have actually SEEN the event. What were they witness to:

“Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

They could witness His ministry, baptism, resurrection and ascension.

Why 12? Why not 13 or just leave it at 11?

Because, to the Jews, the number 12 was significant. It meant "divine order" and "perfection". Here, for a witness, it would have signified a perfect witness.

Aaron56 · Nov 18, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

And I showed you how Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, still chose apostles after the original 12.

Pilgrimshope · Nov 18, 2024

Aaron56 said:

Yeah brother I was saying there are only twelve apostles Jesus chose in person after he rose and gave authority to be apostles

matthias isn’t one of them that’s been my point. They’re different you guys or anyone you know srent the same as Paul or Peter is my point they’re different

Magenta · Nov 18, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

but did he give he authority to build his church ?

“Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:16, 18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and then remember the risen lord appears to Paul as well calling him to the same apostolic role

There are many disciples and witnesses but twelve apostles authority wise it’s a mirror of the old covenants twelve tribes who were the “fathers “ of Israel’s tribes

Isn't that called the great commission?

Aaron56 · Nov 18, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

Although I agree that the Apostles of the Lamb were unique among believers, I still credit The Lord with choosing the other apostles. He simply does so through His delegate: the Holy Spirit.

The way I see it: either one is called to be an apostle by the Lord or they are not. If they are not then there is nothing that person can do to become an apostle. I know it's en vogue to call oneself an apostle... but many are hucksters and swindlers.

Pilgrimshope · Nov 18, 2024

Aaron56 said:

Yeah brother I’m just coming from here in Gods kingdom

“And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what im saying is in the Bible there are only twelve men who Jesus called by name , specifically to be his apostles. And build his church
paul Is the twelth and only other to receive the same commission the other elven did from jesus in person .

So when I say there are twelve I’m starting from there and notice there are twelve other names there ? From the old covenant the names of the twelve tribes are on the gates

the twelve apostles jesus chose we ordained for this reason brother

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1, 3-5‬ ‭

there’s only twelve who receive that commission from Jesus is all I’m saying so ot stands to reason those are the names of the twelve apostles recognized in the kingdom

homwardbound · Nov 19, 2024

Aaron56 said:

Why does Paul, himself, acknowledge 'the twelve' if he was a member already?

"..and that He (Christ) was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve."

Here, Paul counted Matthias among "the twelve" Paul gives this fact as evidence for the truth of the gospel.

Also, 1 Thessalonians includes Silvanus and Timothy as apostles. The letter is written by Paul, Silvanus and Timothy.

"Nor did we seek glory from men, either from you or from others, when we might have made demands as apostles of Christ."

Paul also notes James as an apostle:

"But I saw none of the other apostles, save James the Lord's brother."

Also, how do you deal with Barnabas being called an apostle?

"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this,they tore their clothes..."

Here is how Barnabas and Paul were distinguished as apostles:

"Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away."

The Holy Spirit said... Where was this written? Of course it wasn't written. The teachers and prophets heard this directly from the Spirit.

And then the Holy Spirit, by inspiring the scripture, clearly calls Barnabas an apostle:

"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this,they tore their clothes..."

The Spirit does only what He sees the Lord do. If the Spirit chose Barnabas the Lord chose Barnabas.

This is the authority of the Holy Spirit: He only speaks what He hears from the Lord:

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. "

Before one might say "Yeah, but, Paul and Barnabas split and we never hear from Barnabas again. Also, Barnabas never wrote anything of the New testament."

Consider this: There are only 9 authors of the New testament. Matt, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, and the writer of Hebrews. The writer of James was not the Apostle James, James died before it was written. Mark was an associate of Peter and Paul and not among the 12. So now we're left with 7 authors. Even if we include Paul among the Twelve and assume Hebrews was written by an unnamed Apostle, 5 Apostles of the Lamb wrote nothing of the New Testament. So "writing part of the Bible" is not a qualifier for apostleship.

there is so much more to it all, than any first birth flesh can see clearly, only Father today is good, and I trust to be one with Father and Son by the done work of Son once for us all to be new in love and mercy too, thank you
The guide seems to be suffering and shame to endure, long enough to grow hinds feet to skip across the mountains with Father and Son that won salvation for us, seeing us as if never sinned ever, amazing grace, thank you Father and Son as Won
You know who is who and I trust you alone as Son revealed this in his walk here on earth to me at least, thank you

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The Role of Apostolic Ministry

homwardbound

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Aaron56

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Pilgrimshope

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homwardbound

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wattie

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homwardbound

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Aaron56

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Magenta

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Pilgrimshope

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Pilgrimshope

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Aaron56

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Aaron56

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Pilgrimshope

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Magenta

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Aaron56

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Pilgrimshope

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homwardbound

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