the Sabbath

[Pasifika]

God’s moral law has not changed, it will always be a sin to worship other gods or break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19 James 2:10-12 Rom 7:7 Rev 22:14-15 the priesthood and the laws contained in ordinances did change Col 2:14 Hen 9:9-10 Eph 3:15. Heb 7:12 is referring to the law of the priesthood and it tells why it had to change in Hebrews 7. The Spirit violates no laws. 1 John 2:24 John 14:15-18

Moral law has never but the way/law to fullfil it has changed. Not by the old way of the letter BUT the New way of the Spirit.

Priesthood under the OC change so also the law in which they administer. This includes the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments is also called "the covenant law" which refers to the OC.

 

[Pasifika]

The law of love is the greatest, no disagreeing.... but does the law of love negate the 10 commandments.

The law of love was written in Moses's writtings and to the nation of Israel, but you accept them today.
why not the 10 commandments?

Most people do accept the 9 commandments. but the 4th is removed in multiple ways.

The law of Love under the New covenant NC, is different from the law under the OC.

The OC is based solely on man's own works to achieve what God desire or Love..see Ex 19:8

Under The NC it's All God who do the work of Love and all we do is to "believe" He can do what He said He'll do. Sometimes this New covenant is call 'covenant of Promise' which God promise and He will fulfill.

So the Sabbath under the NC is reached only when we "believe" the Gospel..see Hebrews 4, unlike the OC Sabbath command of the 7th day in the 10 commandments.

So, when Jesus state a new command of Love in John 13:34-40. It's not a new command because it's already written in the law But it's becomes new because the Love is comes from Him to us. Not our own faulty love under the OC way of the letter but a Love through His Spirit under the NC..

 

[TMS]

The law of Love under the New covenant NC, is different from the law under the OC.

Why love is love
The love of God does not change.

Abraham was saved by faith, Noah was saved by faith, David was saved by faith.

The OC is based solely on man's own works to achieve what God desire or Love..see Ex 19:8

If it was works alone why does the bible say they are saved by faith.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Under The NC it's All God who do the work of Love and all we do is to "believe" He can do what He said He'll do. Sometimes this New covenant is call 'covenant of Promise' which God promise and He will fulfill.

It has always been a covenant of promise and by faith we know He will fulfill. The promises started back in the begining.
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
"I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

Do we do nothing? watch and be ready. study the truth, understand why we believe what we do so we are not lead astray.

When Jesus said follow Him, Does He use a rope and drag us alone? No, we need to follow, and that requires effort and self denial, But that's a delight when you love Jesus.

The teaching of Dispensationalism is a theological framework that views history as divided into distinct periods in which God interacts with mankind in specific ways. This has been distorted and greatly misused.

We are all saved in the same way. One hope, one faith, one love, One God. God does not change.

 

[Gideon300]

This is the point of the New Covenant and why it is established on better promises Heb 8:6, as God said, it is not established on new laws as man teach wrongly. You can't make something perfect for converting the soul more perfect Psa 19:7

God is the one doing in the New Covenant- which is a much better promise God doing versus man trying to do but can't because we need God for everything.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

But it requires our cooperation, love and faith, why its a conditional promise

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

There is nothing we can do on our own, but through Christ all things are possible Phil 4:13 including overcoming sin and keep His commandments.

God promises He has a faithful people that do this.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Faith of Jesus, not faith in Jesus. What was Jesus faith of Jesus. Did He keep all the commandments and told us if we abide in Him, to follow Him?

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

We are told whoever we obey is who we serve so its all about our choices. Sin unto death obedience unto righteousness Rom 6:16

This is the faith that reconciles us trusting in God that what He asks if only for our own good.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

As I've said before, read the rest of the NT instead of cherry picking scripture to suit your preconceived notions. Jesus commands me in my spirit man, not by His word on stone. I do not steal just because of a commandment. I do not steal because my conscience tells me not to. I knew stealing was wrong before I even knew there were 10 commandments. I shoplifted once as a dare. I got caught and that was enough. However, I claimed expenses on my tax return that I did not incur. I discovered that was stealing also. You won't find that in Leviticus. So I quit making false claims.

By all means live under the Law. I'll continue to live by grace, by the Life of Christ who lives within me, leading me and guiding me continually.

The Pharisees were admired and respected for their righteous way of life. Yet they hated Lord Jesus. It is possible to be outwardly righteous yet inwardly dead. I'll stick with Jesus, my righteousness, my wisdom, my sanctification and my power. I'll walk in the Spirit and so have the power to overcome the flesh. You keep trying to please God. I died and my life is hidden in Christ with God. I died to the Law, to the world, to self and to sin. I rose with Christ to new life. That suits me just fine.

 

[TMS]

Saved by grace through faith and you contribute nothing and that is the gospel.

what about murder and lying, what about having other gods before the God almighty, and taking His name in vain?
Do we do nothing because Jesus perfectly obeyed these commandments? can i covet freely now because Jesus keep that commandment perfectly?

Did Jesus come to save you from the penalty of sin or from sin..
I know that Jesus came to free me from both. He doesn't want me to be entangled in sin.

2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

 

[decipher]

You use the word "principles" but bible states they are "commandments". These two commandments are greater than the 10 commandments.

Rom 13: 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another; for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
The problem with humanity is their motivation for living, which is love of self above love of God first and love of everyone else as we love ourselves. The Father chooses (John 17: 2,9, 11), the Son erases, and the Holy Spirit (the angel of His presence in Isaiah 63: 9-10) perfects us by acting as a portal through which both Father and Son can enter our being to fill us with the same love that Father and Son share.
John 17: 21-23 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also, may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory (portal) which thou gavest me I have given them, that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. The Son is the temple of the Father through a portal called the Holy Spirit or God's glory. It is through the Holy Spirit that the Father communicates His will to His Son, speaks through His Son, and empowers His Son to get His will accomplished. The Son has a will of his own, but the Son subjugates his will to that of the Father because of the love that they share. It is this shared love that has the Son perfectly obeying the Father's will in heaven and on earth, so much so, that the Son is the image of the invisible God, the Father.
1Cor 3: 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Where the Holy Spirit is, the Father is.
When Jesus ascended to the Father to get glorified, He received a glorified body made up of saints (chosen by the Father), believe in Jesus death for the forgiveness of sins that are past (Rom 3: 25-26), and are perfected by Jesus when Jesus baptizes them with the Holy Spirit, thereby they receive a portal through which both Father and Son enter our beings.
John 14: 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself; but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 12: 49 For I have not spoken of (from) myself; but the Father, who sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Jesus received this commandment through the Holy Spirit.
John 14: 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings; and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.
John 16: 13 Nevertheless, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth; for he shall not speak of (from) himself, but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak;
Jesus being one with the Father means that he is connected to the Father by the Holy Spirit (portal) that he is filled with. We become one with both Father and Son when we receive the Holy Spirit (portal) that connects us to them. That is how we become part of the spiritual body of Christ and in the family of the Father. It is they who perfect us by filling us with the same love that causes the Son to obey the Father ( God is Love).
1 John 4: 7-8 Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of (from) God, and everyone that loveth is born (again) of (from) God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

[Gideon300]

1Jn 2:4 If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I do what the Lord Jesus shows me to do. The 10 commandments came through Moses. If the Law could save anyone, Jesus died for nothing. The Christian life is a life of obedience and faith. But not faith in the Law or obedience to a few commandments.
Romans 8:14:
"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." It does not say, all who are led by God's law.

The argument that all 613 of the commandments are ceremonial is simply false. Some were for health reasons. According to the Law, if you have a contagious disease, you need to burn your house down. You should not eat pork, many kinds of fish, shellfish and such. Yet Peter was instructed to eat "unclean" foods in violation of God's law. It is up to God what we can and should not do.

I was saved while I was in the military. On the one hand, apparently I should not have reported for duty on Saturdays. Except I'd be letting down colleagues and risking their lives. Not much of a witness, I suspect.

The folly of legalism is that the Christian life is far harder than obedience to the Law. Following a set of rules is simple and requires no faith. Following the leading of the Spirit requires faith and ears to hear what the Spirit is saying.

 

[Gideon300]

what about murder and lying, what about having other gods before the God almighty, and taking His name in vain?
Do we do nothing because Jesus perfectly obeyed these commandments? can i covet freely now because Jesus keep that commandment perfectly?

Did Jesus come to save you from the penalty of sin or from sin..
I know that Jesus came to free me from both. He doesn't want me to be entangled in sin.

2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

I do not believe that anyone here is saying that Christians have a licence to sin. I will say that knowing the Law will not set anyone free from the power of sin. Paul knew the commandment against coveting but he was powerless to change himself. He discovered freedom in Christ. And that is the secret.

 

[TMS]

By all means live under the Law. I'll continue to live by grace, by the Life of Christ who lives within me, leading me and guiding me continually.

Your illustration is a good example of the holy Spirit impressing you, Jesus writting it on your heart.
i agree we need to live by grace with Jesus in us guideing and leading us.
But if you are not aware of what is right then you will not feel guilty or be convicted for something that is not wrong.

We all learn as we grow, and i didn't know about the sabbath when i was younger, i didn't feel any conviction. But when i studied the word i was convicted about the sabbath day. Now i BY GRACE Through faith obey.

God will Judge us not man so we need not worry about what others think of us. It's all about our hearts.

I'll walk in the Spirit and so have the power to overcome the flesh. You keep trying to please God. I died and my life is hidden in Christ with God. I died to the Law, to the world, to self and to sin. I rose with Christ to new life. That suits me just fine.

i die daily,, it isn't a once off thing. I give myself to God every day. i surrender myself to Jesus every day, sometimes multiples a day. The life that i now live, when surrended, is lead by the Spirit.

But the thing that really helps in this walk is the understanding of righteousness. understanding what is right and wrong, understanding truth from error.
The bible is our only guild. if you through out the laws that define sin it is hard to be convicted with no standard.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law:

you will never know the sabbath commandment while you believe there is no law. True it has been written in our minds and hearts but you will never be convicted if you never see it as sin.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[TMS]

I do not believe that anyone here is saying that Christians have a licence to sin. I will say that knowing the Law will not set anyone free from the power of sin. Paul knew the commandment against coveting but he was powerless to change himself. He discovered freedom in Christ. And that is the secret.

will you say that in order to know what sin is, you need to understand the law.

i agree that knowing the Law will not set anyone free from the power of sin.
Jesus is the only way.
But how do we confess our sins if we don't know what sin is.

 

[Pasifika]

Why love is love
The love of God does not change.

Abraham was saved by faith, Noah was saved by faith, David was saved by faith.


If it was works alone why does the bible say they are saved by faith.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.




It has always been a covenant of promise and by faith we know He will fulfill. The promises started back in the begining.
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
"I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

Do we do nothing? watch and be ready. study the truth, understand why we believe what we do so we are not lead astray.

When Jesus said follow Him, Does He use a rope and drag us alone? No, we need to follow, and that requires effort and self denial, But that's a delight when you love Jesus.

The teaching of Dispensationalism is a theological framework that views history as divided into distinct periods in which God interacts with mankind in specific ways. This has been distorted and greatly misused.

We are all saved in the same way. One hope, one faith, one love, One God. God does not change.

To follow the command to Love under the OC it becomes our love i.e man's love/human love instead of God's Love (Agape) which is what He commanded. This is because under the OC man/human is to fulfill the command without any help or influence from God. This is the nature of the covenant when it was agreed upon in Sinai between God and children of Israel.

This is how the Old covenant is established..

Exodus 29:7,8..so Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words the Lord had commanded him to speak. The people All responded together, WE WILL DO EVERYTHING THE LORD HAS SAID..

So everything under this covenant, the work is done by man/people Not God. So God command, the people will do it.

This is a problem because people are sinners and can never measured up to God standard in upholding His commands as required ie 10 Commandments etc..

 

[Pasifika]

will you say that in order to know what sin is, you need to understand the law.

i agree that knowing the Law will not set anyone free from the power of sin.
Jesus is the only way.
But how do we confess our sins if we don't know what sin is.

Our flesh is always gravitates to sin. There is no point of knowing something if we are always incline to follow it because its part our fallen makeup as human beings as results of the fall in Eden.

So, the ultimate is to know our true character our essence which is found in Christ. Act 17:28

Everything that is Not of faith is Sin. Rom 14:23

 

[MeowFlower]

Which is more holy? Saturdays or a believer in Christ?

Why not both? God made the Sabbath for us. Not us for the Sabbath.
Sabbath is from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.

If the Sabbath was abolished after Jesus then his Apostles erred in keeping it holy. Yet,they didn't make a mistake. They honored God's gift to them.

Luke 23 reminds us the women who were to annoint the body of Jesus in the tomb had prepared the spices and ointments for that ritual. Yet they rested on Sabbath day according to the commandment.

Colossians 2:16-17
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews 4&version=ESV
Hebrews 4 tells us there remains a Sabbath rest for believers.


1. Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.[a] 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,
“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”
although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” 5 And again in this passage he said,
“They shall not enter my rest.”
6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God[b] would not have spoken of another day later on. 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Jesus the Great High Priest
14 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[Magenta]

breaking God’s holy Sabbath day.

You keep the Sabbath as commanded in the OT? No, you do not. Nobody can. Break the law in one point you break it all. Shame.

 

[MeowFlower]

You keep the Sabbath as commanded in the OT? No, you do not. Nobody can. Break the law in one point you break it all. Shame.

Does that include what Jesus describes as the two great commandments upon which the laws and the prophets hang?

 

[Magenta]

Does that include what Jesus describes as the two great commandments upon which the laws and the prophets hang?

I am not sure what you mean. The Sabbatarians go on and on ad nauseum about keeping the Sabbath
as if it is something everyone should be doing when nobody can do it. They are perpetrating a deception.

God's Sabbath rest from His works pointed forward to the rest we would find from works, in Christ.

Also, Sabbath keeping is nowhere commanded in the NT.