Angels

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Nov 14, 2024
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Kansas
#41
Oh i just noticed, is this a Celine Dion thread?
This is my favorite live performance of her. Amazing voice range while live.
Anyway, sorry for the interruption. Carry on. :giggle:

How about Josh Groban? I like almost all the songs on his first two albums. 'Alla Luce del Sole' is from his first album. He enunciates these lyrics really well in the second verse right before the chorus: "E la mia mente, non è mai in pace. È sempre altrove. Tu dove sei?"

This is a good concert compilation for the video:

 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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cfbac.org
#42
.
I was baptized an infant into a religion that prays to angels. It was years
later that I discovered praying to angels is not a good idea because for one
thing, folks unified with Christ are urged to pray to his Father rather than
to one of God's celestial servants.

Gal 4:6 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of His
son into your hearts calling out: Abba! Father.

Rom 8:15 . . For you have not received a spirit of bondage again to fear;
but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba!
Father.

Adopted kids have it much better than foster kids. For one, foster kids aren't
relatives; they're wards. As wards, they have no inheritance rights, nor do
they have a right to be known by their foster family's name. Plus they
eventually age out of the system and have to go out on their own without a
support base to fall back on should they meet up with hard times.

In contrast adopted kids are relatives, and as such they have inheritance
rights and a right to be known by their adopted family's name, and a place
in the family tree. Their situation is permanent, i.e. they don't age out of the
system and should they eventually go out on their own, their adoptive family
will always be there for a safety net should they need it.

* Abba is neither English, nor Greek, nor Hebrew. It's an Aramaic word that
means father in an unusual way. It's a filial vocative.

For example: When my son points me out to one of his friends at the mall
and says: "That's my dad over there" then his use of dad simply indicates
that he and I are related. But when he shouts: "Hey dad! I'm over here."
then his use of dad is a filial vocative because he's addressing me personally
to get my attention-- same noun; different sense.

Anyway point being: the spirit of His son, a.k.a. the spirit of adoption, never
urges the Father's family circle to call out to angels because it compels us to
follow His son's example. And I'd have to say, if someone is comfortable calling
out to an angel, then they have not yet been adopted into the Father's family
circle, viz; they're on the outside looking in as fatherless urchins. It gets worse:

The spirit of His son is of course the spirit of Christ; and folks lacking it are
in a very serious spiritual condition.

Rom 8:9 . . If anyone have not the spirit of Christ, he does not belong to
Christ.
_
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
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#43
Maybe Rihanna is doing the opposite motion
wait, what? when did this happen? Rihanna always used to straight up ovulate through the speaker box; is this for real or is she just selling music?
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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#44
How about Josh Groban? I like almost all the songs on his first two albums. 'Alla Luce del Sole' is from his first album. He enunciates these lyrics really well in the second verse right before the chorus: "E la mia mente, non è mai in pace. È sempre altrove. Tu dove sei?"
:eek:
What in the world? You listen to Italian music?
God bless you brother. Music is a wonderful way to appreciate God's Creation.

 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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#45
Don't look at it from the aspect of 'need'. God made angels and yet He doesn't need angels. And look at us. We exist. The premise shouldn't be based on human logic because by human logic, I think almost the entire Bible is obsolete or at least irrelevant.
Hmmm. You reply by introducing more questions: Why did God make creatures? Why did He create something He didn't need? Why does the biblical answer seem illogical? Was He bored?
 
Nov 14, 2024
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#46
Well we are not like those that came before us huh. Well say we know Peter's in jail and we hear a knock on the door "its just Peters angel". This was all after Christ rose form the grave ... yes shouting time! They, angels are sent out continually to server human beings who are destined to inherit salvation. Org written.. "Not all are they ministering spirits for service bring sent forth on account of those being about to inherit salvation."

From what I gather they are not ours to command, to just sit and chat with they only obey the Fathers word. Haha but what I want to know is why was that their first thought and Hebrews.. I want to hear about the revelation by GOD about all this.....
I used to walk through a neighborhood that everyone told me to avoid. It was a rough area and I was told people just walk through there get beat up, robbed, and assaulted all the time. For about seven months I would walk through this neighborhood. People saw me but no one even looked at me. One day, it started raining while I was walking back through the neighborhood, so I got on someone's porch to take cover. The guy who owned the house came outside to smoke a cigarette. I told him I hoped he didn't me standing there till the rain let up. He looked at me as if I didn't need to ask his permission to be there (like we knew each other and I didn't need to ask his permission to be there), then he went back to smoking his cigarette.

When the rain let up, I headed back home but stopped to ask God why no one even so much as looked at me not to mention approached me in a neighborhood know for being so dangerous. He brought this verse to me immediately: "The Angel of the Lord encamps all around those who fear Him and delivers them" (Psalm 34:7). He then told me that He was protecting and that that was the only reason that neighborhood harassed or assaulted others who walked through it but didn't bother me. Yes, angels are God's to command. He sets them over this person and over that place. "He will command His angels concerning you" (Ps. 91). He commands them to minister or protect or help or support everyone-- christians and non-christians.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#47
I've made a lot of jokes about that. Maybe Balaam wasn't freaked out about a talking donkey because a.) he still lived in the time period when Eden was still fairly fresh on everyone's mind because before the Fall, animals and humans could communicate; b.) living in that part of the country and being 'prophetic', he was used to seeing strange things; c.) knowing how to manipulate curses against others, he had occult experience and had therefore seen animals and inanimate objects speak before (which does happen).
Yeah im nOt sure haha I just know I would be speechless . My daddy used to find things like that and tell us bible stories at night before bedtime . I remember Daniel and the lions den , shadrach meshach and abednego . Just a lot of really neat and amazing and faith building stories in the ot

there was a time when God set angels over mankind because of mans rebellion and worship of idols

“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
( the people at the base of Sinai when Moses was getting the tablets of commandment )

Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven;

as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness?

Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

….Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

……who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:41-43, 51, 53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves: they have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

( this is the first commandment they’ve already broken )

And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

And Moses besought the LORD his God, ( Moses intercedes to save the people from his wrath ) ………..And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:7-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses intercedes again after judging and punishing the people for what they did having three thousand people slaughtered by the priests at random with swords. Then making then grind up and drink the golden idol in water

then he returns again to make atonement for the people and we see the involvement of the angels again in fulfilling the covenant

“And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.

…..Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin–; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:30, 32-34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is the ordination of the law of Moses he did many things through angels in the ot because they were given authority over men by the law when they worshipped the calf

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.”( this is the issue )
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law is Gods word , an angel who will not pardon thier sins is given the authority over them ehos giving the word to Moses who also makes judgements by Gods spirit over the people .

The Gospel is God speaking his word as a man , to man and for all man . No angel , no other man who needs to mediate but just the person who believes the gospel and the lords spirit and then others who have the same relationship in Christ with him.

this is why the disposition of angels evident in the law doesn’t work for mankind as a mediation and what makes it not our law

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. “
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-22

so you have this dispostion cast over the word

“And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:32, 35-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or this disposition of the angel

“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭19:21‬ ‭

“And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭24:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

V this disposition of the lord jesus the man who offers pardon and cleansing and renewal

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-

After man co tiny ally rebelled he handed them over to angels to govern until Christ should come himself and redeem them

Im sorry I’ve gotten off course but the idea is that angels are very involved in the ot because they were the governing authority over the law carrying out and delivering Gods word I mean

But the nt he’s chosen men to be the o es to carry out delivery of the word of the gospel and angels to minister in the spiritual realm helping to accomplish gods will those unseen things we know God did but dont know how …. and strengthen people also guard over people as well observe and make records of nt bongs that are happening also such as the children’s angels always in communication with God watching for people who do them harm

i love that idea regarding nt doctrine and angels.

i simply am just offering some thoughts and scriptire regarding the interactions I’ve noticed in the Bible I sorry I get a little scattered with my words and thoughts

God bless
 
Nov 14, 2024
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#48
I'd have to say, if someone is comfortable calling out to an angel, then they have not yet been adopted into the Father's family circle, viz; they're on the outside looking in as fatherless urchins.
Oof. That "fatherless urchins" part is a real kick in the bouncers. Good God. Lol. That was harsh.
 
Nov 14, 2024
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Kansas
#49
Hmmm. You reply by introducing more questions: Why did God make creatures? Why did He create something He didn't need? Why does the biblical answer seem illogical? Was He bored?
Why did He send fallen lucifer and his angels to the earth realm and let them wander free instead of sending them to a nether realm and locking them away forever? Why did He give angels the ability to even reproduce with humans when Jesus later said there is no 'marriage' in Heaven or with spirit beings? There are many questions out there and their answers are not logical. Hebrews 4:16 says to go boldy before the throne of Grace. You can go ask Him these questions yourself and keep asking until the answers start raining (misting) down.
 
Nov 14, 2024
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#50
simply am just offering some thoughts and scriptire regarding the interactions I’ve noticed in the Bible I sorry I get a little scattered with my words and thoughts

God bless
I don't know how this thread got to angel worship. The thread isn't even about angels in particular.

God uses angels because He created them and each one has their role. It really is that simple. It has nothing to do with angel worship or angel mediation although God still uses angels to mediate but it's a different type of mediation. 'Mediate' doesn't simply mean 'to speak or plead on behalf of others'. The Bible says Jesus intercededs for us before God. Do you think He is doing this the way we think He is-- on His knees 24/7? No. It is His blood, death, resurrection, what He accomplished that is mediating and interceding for us. That "It is finished", the thing that was finished is the thing that is mediating, intervening, interceding, and standing in the gap for us. The Bible says few things the way we perceive them and furthermore usually has a lo more to say than what we read or are told. Many churches and doctrines have been built because God revealed something to someone and they ran with it, thinking it was the whole revelation when it was just a small part.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#51
Those are helpful citations. I agree that the role of angels changed with the coming of the Holy Spirit.
Yes I agree .

angels are Mentioned a lot in nt doctrine but often ( not always ) it’s very different roles than in the ot.

I don’t think angels are capable of understanding what it’s like to be a man and so they aren’t very empathetic towards man but rather servants of God or at this point a third are said to serve satan.

ive wondered if tbier aitboeiry over mankind in the law , might be related to why some of them became proud and wanted to be god and worshipped by man. But I’ve never really been able to co firm this in scripture. Maybe a taste of authority over man directly was too much for some of them just an old foolish thought though
 
Nov 14, 2024
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#52
:eek:
What in the world? You listen to Italian music?
God bless you brother. Music is a wonderful way to appreciate God's Creation.

I like basically any music that isn't too loud to hear from any year. Different types of music, different languages, and different destinations are good for your soul (and your spirit too). Good voice on your Zucchero.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#53
I don't know how this thread got to angel worship. The thread isn't even about angels in particular.

God uses angels because He created them and each one has their role. It really is that simple. It has nothing to do with angel worship or angel mediation although God still uses angels to mediate but it's a different type of mediation. 'Mediate' doesn't simply mean 'to speak or plead on behalf of others'. The Bible says Jesus intercededs for us before God. Do you think He is doing this the way we think He is-- on His knees 24/7? No. It is His blood, death, resurrection, what He accomplished that is mediating and interceding for us. That "It is finished", the thing that was finished is the thing that is mediating, intervening, interceding, and standing in the gap for us. The Bible says few things the way we perceive them and furthermore usually has a lo more to say than what we read or are told. Many churches and doctrines have been built bec God revealed something to someone and they ran with it, thinking it was the whole revelation when it was just a small part.
Ok carry on god bless
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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#54
I like basically any music that isn't too loud to hear from any year. Different types of music, different languages, and different destinations are good for your soul (and your spirit too). Good voice on your Zucchero.
I haven’t seen a lot of your posts and topics but I just searched some of your latest posts and you seem on fire for God after all these years.
Hallelujah. May He grant us mercy and eternal life and may the Heaven open soon to redeem this fallen world.
 
Nov 14, 2024
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Kansas
#55
Yes I agree .

angels are Mentioned a lot in nt doctrine but often ( not always ) it’s very different roles than in the ot.

I don’t think angels are capable of understanding what it’s like to be a man and so they aren’t very empathetic towards man but rather servants of God or at this point a third are said to serve satan.

ive wondered if tbier aitboeiry over mankind in the law , might be related to why some of them became proud and wanted to be god and worshipped by man. But I’ve never really been able to co firm this in scripture. Maybe a taste of authority over man directly was too much for some of them just an old foolish thought though
Angels have whatever roles God gives them. The spirit realm is complex. I was once shown a dream in which three angels were acting as a believer's attorneys. They sat in a meeting in the room that jurors meet in to decide cases and punishments. I didn't notice them till they came out. They looked fatigued from the meeting and went and gave 'their client' some good and bad news, telling him their case would turn out in their favor (good news) but the attorneys didn't know when that would be or how long it would take (bad news). Then I woke up.

I assumed that the three attorneys symbolized the Godhead, but as I thought about it that didn't make sense: a.) they were fatigued and God never gets tired (but angels can get tired: Daniel 10), and b.) they didn't know when their client's case would be decided while God knows everything. I then understood that they were angels and not the Godhead (this is more believable in that many angels are triads (ie. they move in threes)). These angels aren't taking this man's case to God; they're handling this man's case as concerns other angels (ie. angels vs. fallen angels: not God but an angel confronted the fallen angel in Daniel 10, and not "the Lord" but Michael confronted satan in Jude 1:9). It is different. The natural realm has natural laws (law of physics, law of engineering, law of mathematics, law of attraction, etc) and so the spirit realm also has laws that govern the way things work, operate, and function. God has angels for all His own reasons (He sets them over regions and territories but doesn't have to). We don't know 1/10 of those reasons.

Also, angels don't have to become human to understand humans. (That would almost be like assuming that all the angels who were allowed to appear in human form understand more about humans than the rest of the angels.) For one, they are spirit beings, so they know a whole whole whole lot. Secondly, we have on earth something called 'empathy' which is a sense or ability that gives one person the ability to 'feel with' another person as if they were inside the person and feeling the person's feelings for them (this is the type of 'agreement' the Bible says grants answers from God when christians pray for/with each other); it gives the ability to feel even with a person you don't know and with whom you have nothing at all in common. Empathy can allow a man to 'experience' a woman's reality carrying and bearing a baby; empathy can allow a five-year-old girl to understand just how her grandfather is feeling after losing his wife. It's able to cross boundaries and allow people to relate intimately with each other. People can also 'feel with' God. The Bible says angels are mightier (greater) than humans. Since we humans can pull off this supernatural feat of 'entering in with others' or 'bearing others' burdens', angels can certainly 'feel with' humans. You also wrote, "[Angels] aren’t very empathetic towards man..." Angels have to be empathetic toward humans because they have the ability to empathize (feel with) human beings, God, each other, other beings; God also created them to serve Him which means He gave them tools to do just that: one of those tools is love for mankind.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#56
“Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Hebrews 13:2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it.
:)
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#57
And [Jesus] saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man. John 1:51
Proverbs 30:4 asks, "Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in His hands? Who has bound up the waters in His cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is the name of His Son—surely you know!," and John 3:13 says that, "No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man."
So, with these verses in mind, I hesitate to accept your claim that...
There were 3 beings who visited Abraham before the destruction of Sodom; only one could have been the lord. Also, it's somewhere stated that the law was laid out for Moses on the mount by angels, plural
Because, when Abraham spoke to the three beings who visited Abraham, he addressed them in the 2nd person singular and scripture is written that "They" answer him in the first person singular as, likewise, also did Lot when the two went into Sodom. Imo, this is enough of a peculiarity to take note of and consider the possibilities this might involve. :unsure:
 

j55

Active member
Sep 29, 2024
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#58
Matthew chapter 18. Only believers have guardian angels. Non believers don't have angels.
2 Corinthians chapter 4. Reprobates have unclean Spirit.
2 Corinthians chapter 4. In whom god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not.
They don't have holy Spirit and don't have guardian angels.

We're talking about Reprobates. Peace.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,183
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#59
I was given a vision and, at first, I wondered if I was looking into the faces of angels. However, not longer afterward, I met these faces, each in turn, in person, I could neither forget nor deny that I saw them spiritually before meeting them physically. If I ask myself, what did these have in common, I know now that it was the look on each of their faces... I know now what that look was of, a look of love.
Earlier, just before I checked into cc, I tuned into the latest video from this channel I recently discovered and it dawned on me on one of the aspects of it that had initially attracted me to it. The picture of Jesus that accompanies the encouraging words reminds me of that vision, it comes closer than I could to describe, in those pictures of Him (especially this latest one premiering an hour ago) what I saw in their eyes. And now I know exactly Who guards me, I know that Love is my guardian.

*this isn't the exact picture that inspired my thoughts that I am referring to, but it was close and readily available to share.