the Sabbath

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,440
6,689
113
62
God knows the begining from the end but God did not put the plan of salvation into place until the plan was needed.
When Jesus said that He is the water of life, we do not take that literally and stop drinking water? When Jesus said He is the bread of life, does that mean we stop eating bread?

NO

Just because we find rest in Jesus (He frees us from guilt and sin) does not mean we stop keeping the holy sabbath day.
Really? Why is Jesus referred to as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,440
6,689
113
62
God knows the begining from the end but God did not put the plan of salvation into place until the plan was needed.
When Jesus said that He is the water of life, we do not take that literally and stop drinking water? When Jesus said He is the bread of life, does that mean we stop eating bread?

NO

Just because we find rest in Jesus (He frees us from guilt and sin) does not mean we stop keeping the holy sabbath day.
To correctly keep the Sabbath, Christ must be in view.
 
Dec 13, 2023
1,459
243
63
You literally draw the correlation, then deny it. There are not 2 rests. There is a physical rest that prefigures the spiritual rest.
So we are to just ignore the word 'also' and the Greek meanings of these rests that show there are two different rests.

Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, [a]not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.

Same gospel, same promise of rest. There are two rests in this passage, not one.

The rest here means this:

Original Word: κατάπαυσις
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: katapausis
Pronunciation: kah-tah'-pow-sis
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap'-ow-sis)
Definition: Rest
Meaning: (in the Old Testament of the rest attained by the settlement in Canaan), resting, rest, dwelling, habitation.



Heb 4::There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

The rest in this verse literally translates into keeping of the Sabbath that remains for God's people, because God's people keep God's commandments- His version through faith and love.

Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

So we enter into Christ rest through faith Heb 4:2 and those who enter ALSO cease from their works as God did from His, on the seventh day, which is the Sabbath Exo 20:10

Heb 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;
 
Dec 13, 2023
1,459
243
63
To correctly keep the Sabbath, Christ must be in view.
Its what the Sabbath is all about, keeping the day holy focusing on Christ Isa 58:13 instead of shopping, working out, gardening, watching TV, housework or anything else that keeps our minds off Christ. Christ knows we need to get these things done which is why He gives us 6 days to get our works and labors done asking for us to cease from our works as God did at Creation on the seventh day to rest with God, focusing on Him, through prayer, church, reading His Word, just the way Christ kept the Sabbath, just the way the apostles kept the Sabbath. We are to be followers of Christ and obey Him through faith and love.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,974
1,282
113
Australia
so as you've mentioned Christ came to Fulfill the Law. Now you're trying to fulfill the same Law apart from Him, instead you must seek to know Christ for Him to come live within you so the Law He fulfilled be fulfill in You.
Amen.... by faith in Jesus He will create in me a clean heart. By faith through Grace, Jesus will transform me. Im not able to keep the law apart from Jesus. But when Jesus is living in me, by His power and strength i find no place for sin. Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: ...When the Holy Spirit fills us we delight in the law of God.

But this grace is not an excuse to continue in sin.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
 
Jun 18, 2024
122
27
28
We don’t keep God’s law to be saved, its through love and faith and keeping God’s law is a consequence of being saved, not a means to it.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are those who [a]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Does one really believe we have a right relationship with Christ by doing the opposite of what He asks?
that doesn't sound right;, "we dont keep Gods Law to be saved'
On the contrary, We keep Gods Law to saved otherwise you still be a sinner and a Lawbreaker.
 
Dec 13, 2023
1,459
243
63
that doesn't sound right;, "we dont keep Gods Law to be saved'
On the contrary, We keep Gods Law to saved otherwise you still be a sinner and a Lawbreaker.
You must have misread what was stated, we do not keep God's law to be saved its a consequence of being saved.

Do you think a saved person obeys or disobeys God? Will a saved person not love or have faith in or of Jesus? If you can please use scripture to provide your answers.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,055
905
113
We don’t keep God’s law to be saved, its through love and faith and keeping God’s law is a consequence of being saved, not a means to it.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are those who [a]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Does one really believe we have a right relationship with Christ by doing the opposite of what He asks?
You have not answered the question.

Here is what you wrote.

but if we won’t even allow God to be God and follow His law, His version, not mans, there is no place for the Holy Spirit to come into our hearts and enable us to obey Him

That is a contradiction.

If we don't obey the law we can't have the Holy Spirit and only by the Holy Spirit can we obey the law.

If your not fully sabbath compliant you do not have the Holy Spirit. And if you do not have the Holy Spirit
you cannot obey the sabbath.

So how can anyone who is not sabbath compliant first then receive the Holy Spirit second?

A contradiction.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,440
6,689
113
62
So we are to just ignore the word 'also' and the Greek meanings of these rests that show there are two different rests.

Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, [a]not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.

Same gospel, same promise of rest. There are two rests in this passage, not one.

The rest here means this:

Original Word: κατάπαυσις
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: katapausis
Pronunciation: kah-tah'-pow-sis
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap'-ow-sis)
Definition: Rest
Meaning: (in the Old Testament of the rest attained by the settlement in Canaan), resting, rest, dwelling, habitation.



Heb 4::There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

The rest in this verse literally translates into keeping of the Sabbath that remains for God's people, because God's people keep God's commandments- His version through faith and love.

Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

So we enter into Christ rest through faith Heb 4:2 and those who enter ALSO cease from their works as God did from His, on the seventh day, which is the Sabbath Exo 20:10

Heb 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;
Do you believe anyone has ever entered into Sabbath rest other than by faith?
 
Jun 18, 2024
122
27
28
Amen.... by faith in Jesus He will create in me a clean heart. By faith through Grace, Jesus will transform me. Im not able to keep the law apart from Jesus. But when Jesus is living in me, by His power and strength i find no place for sin. Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: ...When the Holy Spirit fills us we delight in the law of God.

But this grace is not an excuse to continue in sin.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
yes and that's the New Covenant Way of the Spirit of God Not the old way of the letter of the Law.
 

MeowFlower

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2024
771
336
63
youtube.com
so as you've mentioned Christ came to Fulfill the Law. Now you're trying to fulfill the same Law apart from Him, instead you must seek to know Christ for Him to come live within you so the Law He fulfilled be fulfill in You.
Wrong member. I shared the comparison of the teachings of Jesus to those of Paul.
 
Dec 13, 2023
1,459
243
63
You have not answered the question.

Here is what you wrote.

but if we won’t even allow God to be God and follow His law, His version, not mans, there is no place for the Holy Spirit to come into our hearts and enable us to obey Him

That is a contradiction.

If we don't obey the law we can't have the Holy Spirit and only by the Holy Spirit can we obey the law.

If your not fully sabbath compliant you do not have the Holy Spirit. And if you do not have the Holy Spirit
you cannot obey the sabbath.

So how can anyone who is not sabbath compliant first then receive the Holy Spirit second?

A contradiction.
I think this verse explains it perfectly

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

What comes first? Our decision to obey God and keep His commandments. Every day we have decisions. Do we tell the truth or lie. Do we lust after our neighbors wife or keep those feelings in check. Do we refrain from secular activities on the Sabbath or do we do what we want. Its all about decisions God, did not make us robots otherwise it wouldn't be love. So we need to make the decision to obey Him first though love and when we do He doesn't make us obey Him alone, which we can't, He is the one enabling us to keep His commandments through His Spirit. We have to cooperate with Him first.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,440
6,689
113
62
Its what the Sabbath is all about, keeping the day holy focusing on Christ Isa 58:13 instead of shopping, working out, gardening, watching TV, housework or anything else that keeps our minds off Christ. Christ knows we need to get these things done which is why He gives us 6 days to get our works and labors done asking for us to cease from our works as God did at Creation on the seventh day to rest with God, focusing on Him, through prayer, church, reading His Word, just the way Christ kept the Sabbath, just the way the apostles kept the Sabbath. We are to be followers of Christ and obey Him through faith and love.
Not focusing on Christ in general, but focusing on the salvation apart from works that He provides. This was true of the very first Sabbath. Had Adam never sinned, He still only have received eternal life through Christ. There has always only been one mediator between God and man: Christ.
 
Jun 18, 2024
122
27
28
You must have misread what was stated, we do not keep God's law to be saved its a consequence of being saved.

Do you think a saved person obeys or disobeys God? Will a saved person not love or have faith in or of Jesus? If you can please use scripture to provide your answers.
What? consequence of being saved how?
A saved person must be "like" Jesus in likeness..1John
 
Dec 13, 2023
1,459
243
63
What? consequence of being saved how?
A saved person must be "like" Jesus in likeness..1John
Exactly.

Did Jesus keep the commandments?

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

And if we abide in His love, we will walk just as He walked as our example to follow

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
 
Dec 13, 2023
1,459
243
63
Not focusing on Christ in general, but focusing on the salvation apart from works that He provides. This was true of the very first Sabbath. Had Adam never sinned, He still only have received eternal life through Christ. There has always only been one mediator between God and man: Christ.
Resting with Christ on the Sabbath is not our works, it is Christ works. Keeping the Sabbath day holy on the seventh day to rest in Christ is all Christ, not us. We just have to cooperate with Him.
 
Jun 18, 2024
122
27
28
Exactly.

Did Jesus keep the commandments?

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

And if we abide in His love, we will walk just as He walked as our example to follow

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
Jesus kept All commandments without failing in any point. Have you reach that stage yet?
 
Dec 13, 2023
1,459
243
63
Jesus kept All commandments without failing. Have you reach that stage yet?
Didn't I just answer this question a couple days ago?

I can do nothing on my own but through Christ everything is possible Phil 4:13, including obedience to Him and His commandments, because its not me doing, it is Christ doing John 14:15-18 we just need to cooperate with Him through love and faith. Its what the New Covenant is about God's law written on our heart and it is based on Him doing- He said I will write My law in our hearts. But rebelling against God's law is not how we cooperate with Him.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,440
6,689
113
62
Resting with Christ on the Sabbath is not our works, it is Christ works. Keeping the Sabbath day holy on the seventh day to rest in Christ is all Christ, not us. We just have to cooperate with Him.
You miss the point. Believing Christ for our salvation is the rest.
2nd time with this question: did anyone keep the OT Sabbath apart from faith?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,055
905
113
You must have misread what was stated, we do not keep God's law to be saved its a consequence of being saved.

Do you think a saved person obeys or disobeys God? Will a saved person not love or have faith in or of Jesus? If you can please use scripture to provide your answers.
You must be sabbath compliant to receive the Holy Spirit.

No one is saved without the Holy Spirit as the scripture declared.

Hence, sabbath observance is ultimately a precursor to salvation.

That's what you stated.

"if we won’t even allow God to be God and follow His law, His version, not mans, there is no place for
the Holy Spirit to come into our hearts and enable us to obey Him
"

That is a heretical statement, sabbath observance does not precede the reception of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law,
or by hearing with faith?