Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The unregenerate can know he sins!
And Pharaoh sent and called for Moses and Aaron, and said to them,
“I have sinned this time. The Lord is righteous, and my people and I are wicked.
Exodus 9:27 New King James Version
Then Pharaoh called for Moses and Aaron in haste, and said, “I have sinned against
the Lord your God and against you.
Exodus 10:16 New King James Version
........
-
1
- Show all
Not ignorant.
I realized that unregenerate man is a sinner by nature.
The flood had to come for another yet MAJOR reason.
The hybrid Nephilim being born were half angel and half man.
If given time, they were going to take over the gene pool of evil mankind if allowed to remain.
If that happened?
The Messiah could not have been born of a true human seed.
To preserve the seed promised in Genesis 3:15?
God preserved genuine human DNA through Noah and his family.
All the rest had to die, lest the Messiah would have been prevented from being born of a woman.
That was the real reason for the flood.
For the verse you cited (Gen 8:21) revealed that man's nature had not changed since Genesis 6.
So, there had to be something much worse to warrant the flood.
I realized that unregenerate man is a sinner by nature.
The flood had to come for another yet MAJOR reason.
The hybrid Nephilim being born were half angel and half man.
If given time, they were going to take over the gene pool of evil mankind if allowed to remain.
If that happened?
The Messiah could not have been born of a true human seed.
To preserve the seed promised in Genesis 3:15?
God preserved genuine human DNA through Noah and his family.
All the rest had to die, lest the Messiah would have been prevented from being born of a woman.
That was the real reason for the flood.
For the verse you cited (Gen 8:21) revealed that man's nature had not changed since Genesis 6.
So, there had to be something much worse to warrant the flood.
-
2
- Show all
Before graduating from Bible college, I learned of a teacher that some teaching on campus were learning from.
I decided to begin ordering audio tapes of Bible lessons after having graduated.
Then it happened. The tapes came in the mail.
Stunned, I realized after hearing my first lesson, that I just learned more in one hour than I had in three years of Bible college.
Yet, I needed that college training to develop my capacity to understand what I was going to be taught...
Now... Here's how expensive it was for me to listen to hours a day of teaching.
Over time, I tapered off to not as much concentrated study.
And, I might add.
Because of the intense desire of many, this pastor taught six nights a week
from the King James, and the Hebrew and Greek texts.
No money was ever asked for.
I decided to begin ordering audio tapes of Bible lessons after having graduated.
Then it happened. The tapes came in the mail.
Stunned, I realized after hearing my first lesson, that I just learned more in one hour than I had in three years of Bible college.
Yet, I needed that college training to develop my capacity to understand what I was going to be taught...
Now... Here's how expensive it was for me to listen to hours a day of teaching.
There is no charge for any material from R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries. Anyone who desires Bible teaching
can receive our publications and audio and video recordings without obligation. God provides Bible doctrine.
We wish to reflect His grace.
R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries is a grace ministry and operates entirely on voluntary contributions. There is
no price list for books or recordings. No money is requested. When gratitude for the Word of God motivates a
believer to give, he has the privilege of contributing to the dissemination of Bible doctrine.
Over time, I tapered off to not as much concentrated study.
And, I might add.
Because of the intense desire of many, this pastor taught six nights a week
from the King James, and the Hebrew and Greek texts.
No money was ever asked for.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Archived the link and being auditioned. Thanks!
rbthieme.org/mp3/361_0047.mp3
"man was created to resolve the angelic conflict"
Ding ding ding we have a winner....!
rbthieme.org/mp3/361_0047.mp3
"man was created to resolve the angelic conflict"
Ding ding ding we have a winner....!
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Yes, a good teacher/pastor maintains this protocol:
[Jhn 15:4 KJV]
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Contrarily, how many Churches/pastors today constitute these "MEN"? Probably far too many.
We know who they are do we not?
[Jhn 15:6 KJV]
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and ***men*** gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
[Jhn 15:4 KJV]
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Contrarily, how many Churches/pastors today constitute these "MEN"? Probably far too many.
We know who they are do we not?
[Jhn 15:6 KJV]
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and ***men*** gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
-
1
- Show all
It is illogical as well as unbiblical to maintain that a soul who does not know he is sinning is sinning. Paul explains quite clearly in RM 7:7-13 and GL 3:19-25 that the law was given so that souls WOULD know they were sinners. Man can know of the existence of God through creation and conscience (C&C), but nowhere does he say man will be condemned to hell even though he had no ability/opportunity to learn about sin and be saved from its ultimate punishment. On the contrary, souls who had the wisdom of the world (1CR 1:21) are without excuse, because they had the opportunity prompted by C&C to seek God/GW or the wisdom of God in 2:6-7, which is the mind of Christ (v.16), the incarnate Logos (JN 1:14), and Paul taught (in 1TM 2:3-4) that God wants every sinner to LGW and be saved or enter into a relationship with Him in Christ, just as Peter did in MT 16:15-17. Therefore, God determined or predestined a plan of salvation involving the atoning death of Messiah to win our redemption from hell (EPH 1:4-11).
The question sometimes arises: Is God free to be unloving or to do evil, such as creating souls who have no opportunity to be saved from damnation? Is God the Father able to change His will, is God the Son free to sin, and could God the Holy Spirit become demonic?
If God cannot do what He has decreed to be evil, then He would not be as free as volitional humanity created in His image, and there would be no basis for praising His holiness. Just as God created physical laws such as gravity, so He created moral laws such as “love everyone” and evil influences or options! Thus, just as God is not bound by gravity, so also He is not enslaved by good or forced to do what is righteous.
The Bible clearly teaches that God the Son is free to sin (HB 2:14-18) and "was tempted in every way just as we are..." (HB 4:15), and Paul (in RM 9:16-21) upholds the freedom of God to love or hate as He chooses. The cliche “might makes right” is true; it is because God is almighty that only He can determine what is right ultimately. There is no super-divine authority that determines God; God is self-determined. The only basis humans have for evaluating whether God is just is understanding how God’s acts and judgments are consistent with the moral principles He has ordained for those created in His image (RM 3:22-26).
If God were ever to change His mind, it would mean that God is tricky and that morality is ultimately arbitrary and a farce. This is why we should not take God and divine love for granted. Instead, we should be eternally grateful that God has decreed loving to be right and not doubt His promise never to change (ML 3:6). God is not the angel of light and love who deceives humanity, so let us praise God in the spirit of Psalm 66:1: “Shout with joy to God, all the earth! Sing to the glory of his name; Offer him glory and praise!”
Another question is whether the saints in heaven retain volition or will be able sin. It would seem that the answer is "yes", because this option was chosen by Satan and his minions (LK 10:18, MT 25:41, JUDE v.6, cf. EZK 28:15-19). Perhaps the main reason for humanity to be saved by means of this earthly sojourn involving sinning and suffering is to teach us not to make the same mistake!
The question sometimes arises: Is God free to be unloving or to do evil, such as creating souls who have no opportunity to be saved from damnation? Is God the Father able to change His will, is God the Son free to sin, and could God the Holy Spirit become demonic?
If God cannot do what He has decreed to be evil, then He would not be as free as volitional humanity created in His image, and there would be no basis for praising His holiness. Just as God created physical laws such as gravity, so He created moral laws such as “love everyone” and evil influences or options! Thus, just as God is not bound by gravity, so also He is not enslaved by good or forced to do what is righteous.
The Bible clearly teaches that God the Son is free to sin (HB 2:14-18) and "was tempted in every way just as we are..." (HB 4:15), and Paul (in RM 9:16-21) upholds the freedom of God to love or hate as He chooses. The cliche “might makes right” is true; it is because God is almighty that only He can determine what is right ultimately. There is no super-divine authority that determines God; God is self-determined. The only basis humans have for evaluating whether God is just is understanding how God’s acts and judgments are consistent with the moral principles He has ordained for those created in His image (RM 3:22-26).
If God were ever to change His mind, it would mean that God is tricky and that morality is ultimately arbitrary and a farce. This is why we should not take God and divine love for granted. Instead, we should be eternally grateful that God has decreed loving to be right and not doubt His promise never to change (ML 3:6). God is not the angel of light and love who deceives humanity, so let us praise God in the spirit of Psalm 66:1: “Shout with joy to God, all the earth! Sing to the glory of his name; Offer him glory and praise!”
Another question is whether the saints in heaven retain volition or will be able sin. It would seem that the answer is "yes", because this option was chosen by Satan and his minions (LK 10:18, MT 25:41, JUDE v.6, cf. EZK 28:15-19). Perhaps the main reason for humanity to be saved by means of this earthly sojourn involving sinning and suffering is to teach us not to make the same mistake!
-
1
- Show all
Yup. Similar situation with me when I began to study Chronister's work.
Shock. Devastating shock and awe and amazement.
Partly due to what I realized was the total failure of post-modern Churchianty and the appalling lack of fundamentally sound teaching.
Felt like I had won the lottery. Seriously.
Shock. Devastating shock and awe and amazement.
Partly due to what I realized was the total failure of post-modern Churchianty and the appalling lack of fundamentally sound teaching.
Felt like I had won the lottery. Seriously.
-
2
- Show all
Yes, Thieme was quite knowledgeable and I appreciated his systematic approach to Bible study: treating a topic or book thoroughly.
Although I would like to find a similar teacher in a church near me today, I also tapered off after realizing that Thieme spent too much time translating the KJV instead of simply beginning with a good modern version. Thus, knowing the meaning of the Greek beyond the wording of the modern translations was helpful rather rarely. Also, I did not appreciate what seemed to be a papal or dogmatic streak in Thieme, and recently I would like for a pastor to apply Scripture teaching more often to the political situation than I remember him doing. Still, I rank him with my seminary profs.
Although I would like to find a similar teacher in a church near me today, I also tapered off after realizing that Thieme spent too much time translating the KJV instead of simply beginning with a good modern version. Thus, knowing the meaning of the Greek beyond the wording of the modern translations was helpful rather rarely. Also, I did not appreciate what seemed to be a papal or dogmatic streak in Thieme, and recently I would like for a pastor to apply Scripture teaching more often to the political situation than I remember him doing. Still, I rank him with my seminary profs.
Yes I understand and agree.
The issue for us today, is Calvin's ideas, even if not the entire system are ubiquitous in the churches by design.
This is coordinated effort by the seminaries and Bible schools.
Seems to me, the hard-hearted who basically hate humanity like the god they create, or the narcissists types, kinda like Calvin, have no issue with it, but those with deeper sensibilities suffer under its weight and may even have their faith destroyed.
There are many testimonies to this effect.
The issue for us today, is Calvin's ideas, even if not the entire system are ubiquitous in the churches by design.
This is coordinated effort by the seminaries and Bible schools.
Seems to me, the hard-hearted who basically hate humanity like the god they create, or the narcissists types, kinda like Calvin, have no issue with it, but those with deeper sensibilities suffer under its weight and may even have their faith destroyed.
There are many testimonies to this effect.
-
1
- Show all
Same here buddy. But now all in all the time!
And brother there were DECADES of disappointment at what I was seeing out there in Churchianity. Brutal.
But now I am on a constant outreach ministry to hammer down those prison bars so others may likewise be FREE.
[Jhn 8:36 KJV]
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
And brother there were DECADES of disappointment at what I was seeing out there in Churchianity. Brutal.
But now I am on a constant outreach ministry to hammer down those prison bars so others may likewise be FREE.
[Jhn 8:36 KJV]
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
-
3
- Show all