Understanding God’s election

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Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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Well there it goes. Whoosh!
The ghoulish Calvinite geyser of nihilistic condemnation and damnation.

Reminds me of the entirely predictable Old Faithful. Except for the name of course.
You remind me of what Solomon taught in Eccl 9:3.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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[1Co 4:9 KJV]
For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

God allows for Satan to accuse us day and night... for a beautiful reason!

For when Satan accuses, he is admitting that God's sentencing him to the Lake of Fire is correct!
How? God, is tricking the evil tricker, into signing his own sentence papers to the Lake of Fire!


“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged;
and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." Matthew 7:1-2​


God has tricked Satan (the one who deceives the whole world) into becoming his own judge and executioner!
By getting Satan to accuse and condemning his own actions through fallen man, is his seed!
For by condemning his own motives and actions, Satan can never find a justification to escape his sentence to the Lake of Fire!

That is one reason why God allowed for man to fall. It was to bring into existence a type of creature that God could
never have created directly. A type of creature, that the fallen angels can see the consequences of for their inward
desires being overtly manifested to be seen and evaluated. For,God can not create something sinful...

So? He allowed Satan to put on the finishing touches!

It's actually funny when you think about it!

(God must have chuckled when Adam took the fruit while Satan thought he was robbing God of a cherished possession!)

grace and peace!
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Better than saying the devil made me do it.

And the last thing Satan would want is to reveal the utter helplessness of the spiritual dead. His schtick is with prideful, self-sufficient, self-serving Arminians like yourself, so that he can get you, CV5, Kroog, etc. to boast in your own goodness and how worthy you are of God's salvation. The last thing Satan wants revealed is that man's only hope for salvation is to cry our to the Savior to rescue them.
No… I'm no Arminian!

Sorry to destroy your go-to knee-jerk response.

You do not understand what you are dealing with.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Fortunately, the Bible says otherwise. A great comfort to those of us who know that God is GOOD. Which BTW is exactly what Adam KNEW to be true. Which is of course why Adam WAS NOT DECEIVED!
That sets the structure down onto its rock foundation! Good one!
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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Those are good questions. And we(as believers) should ponder them.
Because, God is Fair and Just. And while Satan is judged and we know his judgement.....God is allowing for Satan's appeal trial.....the Angelic conflict. Satan is trying to prove his case and God is allowing it......Further PROVING that our God Is fair and Just in His dealings with angels and mankind. Fair in the sense that God gives each individual exactly what they need to make a informed decision for or against His Son.

Every time a person believes in the Lord Jesus Christ FREELY, they witness to Satan that he was judged righteously.

We could write pages on this topic!
All God's elect believe in the Lord Jesus Christ FREELY, since Jesus set us FREE FROM our bondage to sin, the world, the flesh and the devil in order to be FREE TO believe the gospel. The simple-minded cannot understand that freedom is a two-edged sword! This great truth has been hidden from your mind.

Somewhere it is written: "Apart from me you can do NOTHING".
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,981
397
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No… I'm no Arminian!

Sorry to destroy your go-to knee-jerk response.

You do not understand what you are dealing with.
Okay...my bad. You're worse than an Arminian: You're a Pelagian. :coffee:
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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You remind me of what Solomon taught in Eccl 9:3.
Some of what Solomon wrote was reporting from a perspective that he suffered from during his period of great reversionism.
That was the time of having 1000 wives, practicing paganism of his wives, and flaunting his wealth, etc.

That was his "vanity, vanity, all is vanity" phase of his life.

Some of what he wrote was extracted from his all is vanity phase, that he endured for a season.
He later repented of it and returned to the Lord.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,981
397
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God allows for Satan to accuse us day and night... for a beautiful reason!

For when Satan accuses, he is admitting that God's sentencing him to the Lake of Fire is correct!
How? God, is tricking the evil tricker, into signing his own sentence papers to the Lake of Fire!


“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged;
and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." Matthew 7:1-2​


God has tricked Satan (the one who deceives the whole world) into becoming his own judge and executioner!
By getting Satan to accuse and condemning his own actions through fallen man, is his seed!
For by condemning his own motives and actions, Satan can never find a justification to escape his sentence to the Lake of Fire!

That is one reason why God allowed for man to fall. It was to bring into existence a type of creature that God could
never have created directly. A type of creature, that the fallen angels can see the consequences of for their inward
desires being overtly manifested to be seen and evaluated. For,God can not create something sinful...

Satan in this NC age accuses no one because he no longer has any basis for his accusations, since Christ atoned for the sins of his Father's elect.

So? He allowed Satan to put on the finishing touches!

It's actually funny when you think about it!

(God must have chuckled when Adam took the fruit while Satan thought he was robbing God of a cherished possession!)

grace and peace!
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,981
397
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Some of what Solomon wrote was reporting from a perspective that he suffered from during his period of great reversionism.
That was the time of having 1000 wives, practicing paganism of his wives, and flaunting his wealth, etc.

That was his "vanity, vanity, all is vanity" phase of his life.

Some of what he wrote was extracted from his all is vanity phase, that he endured for a season.
He later repented of it and returned to the Lord.
Then how come he didn't limit man's madness (insanity) and evil to only himself?
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Okay...my bad. You're worse than an Arminian: You're a Pelagian. :coffee:
You do not know what I am.

Calvin did not create TULIP.
Theodore Beza and his clique did.
You are not really following Calvin when you jump into the TULIP bed.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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A unregenerate person is dead to God, dead in sin
But, he is not dead to knowing he sins.

It does not take a high IQ to understand what... 'Jesus died for your sins'… Indicates.

One might first decide that he wished it were true. (he can not yet know)
God then takes that positive decision and transforms it into having the power to know it is true.
And, another decides to himself that it is nonsense, and he wants no part of it.

It's still all begins with volition.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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All God's elect believe in the Lord Jesus Christ FREELY, since Jesus set us FREE FROM our bondage to sin, the world, the flesh and the devil in order to be FREE TO believe the gospel. The simple-minded cannot understand that freedom is a two-edged sword! This great truth has been hidden from your mind.

Somewhere it is written: "Apart from me you can do NOTHING".
Repeating words without understanding how it is true.
Does not make it true.

It only makes you into a propagandized propagandist.


“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you,
you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." Jn 15:5​

Jesus was speaking to regenerate believers.

He did not say that to unbelievers.

Once again?
You keep misapplying Scripture.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Then how come he didn't limit man's madness (insanity) and evil to only himself?
Solomon was not alone in walking in vanity.

Others have identified with Solomon's words.
I have at one time.
It's good to see someone define what one is going through as God keeps bringing us along to the Finish Line.

Sad to say. Some drop out and never finish.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Hmmmm. Saved people can do nothing spiritual without Christ, but unsaved people can?
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
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All God's elect believe in the Lord Jesus Christ FREELY, since Jesus set us FREE FROM our bondage to sin, the world, the flesh and the devil in order to be FREE TO believe the gospel. The simple-minded cannot understand that freedom is a two-edged sword! This great truth has been hidden from your mind.

Somewhere it is written: "Apart from me you can do NOTHING".
Sorry. Since I am well versed in the calvies indoctrination.........One was saved/regenerated THEN one believes. It doesn't work that way.


Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and THEN you shall be saved.......And that goes for all of mankind.

And your "somewhere it is written" Is an application for BELIEVERS. The application for unbelievers is .......Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you SHALL be saved.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,981
397
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Repeating words without understanding how it is true.
Does not make it true.

It only makes you into a propagandized propagandist.


“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you,
you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." Jn 15:5​

Jesus was speaking to regenerate believers.

He did not say that to unbelievers.

Once again?
You keep misapplying Scripture.
If this is true of believers, then how much more would it be true of dead unbelievers? Since believers need the Holy Spirit, how much more so would unbelievers need him? Or take Lazarus: Would Lazarus been able to awaken from his sleep of death apart from Jesus? Didn't Jesus set Lazarus FREE FROM his chains of death? The reason God cannot sin is because he is totally FREE FROM all evil and evil influences which FREES Him TO do what is righteous and holy and good.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,981
397
83
Sorry. Since I am well versed in the calvies indoctrination.........One was saved/regenerated THEN one believes. It doesn't work that way.


Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and THEN you shall be saved.......And that goes for all of mankind.

And your "somewhere it is written" Is an application for BELIEVERS. The application for unbelievers is .......Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you SHALL be saved.
See my reply to Genez in 2116.

And yeah, it does work that way in your first sentence. What do you think Jesus was teaching Nicodemus in John 3?

Finally, there is no verse in scripture that reads what I bolded in red.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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All God's elect believe in the Lord Jesus Christ FREELY, since Jesus set us FREE FROM our bondage to sin, the world, the flesh and the devil in order to be FREE TO believe the gospel. The simple-minded cannot understand that freedom is a two-edged sword! This great truth has been hidden from your mind.

Somewhere it is written: "Apart from me you can do NOTHING".
Luke 1:74 - 77 establishes that it is impossible to even begin to comprehend/trust in the tenets of salvation without first becoming saved by Christ, with that discernment one of its fruits. Before which, man-centered faith or choice would be impossible to achieve because the doctrine of salvation cannot be correctly comprehended by the unsaved - believing that salvation is of themselves, not completely by Christ. That is, salvation becomes known only from/by salvation, not before.
Some might try to say that Luke 1:76 -77 speak of John, but they don't. By stating "unto his people by the remission of sin", we can know they speak only of Christ, because it is only by Christ that sin is remitted (Heb 1:3).

[Luk 1:74-77 KJV]
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

[Heb 1:3 KJV]
3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

[Heb 7:24-25 KJV]
24 But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.