the Sabbath

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,628
5,897
113
Where does it say not a jot or tittle can be removed from Moses words?

This is referring to God- Moses is not God. Did the sacrifices end in the law of Moses?

God wrote God spoke the Ten Commandments, not Moses.

But what verse do you have in mind about Moses on the Sabbath
It seems like you’re flailing and avoiding and asking random ? at this point I’m gonna move on from this conversation and hope we can discuss another in the future and find agreement God bless
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,178
1,800
113
Luke 23: 56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.
the new covenant had not been instituted at this time.... they were still Jews, living under the old covenant.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,650
307
83
It seems like you’re flailing and avoiding and asking random ? at this point I’m gonna move on from this conversation and hope we can discuss another in the future and find agreement God bless
I'm not sure how its random, you said scripture says not a jot or tittle can pass from the word of Moses- I asked you for the verse.

But any rate, thanks for the friendly discussion. I wish you well.

God bless!
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,650
307
83
the new covenant had not been instituted at this time.... they were still Jews, living under the old covenant.
Can you please post the verse that the New Covenant did not ratify by the blood of Jesus at the Cross, but did at some other time.

Weird Jesus would not mention to His close followers who followed Him everywhere that there was a change in the Sabbath commandment and mentioned it to no one. not one person. He didn't because He keeps His Word- not a jot or tittle will pass from His law until all is fulfilled and that is when He comes in the clouds and He makes a New Heaven and New Earth.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,628
5,897
113
I'm not sure how its random, you said scripture says not a jot or tittle can pass from the word of Moses- I asked you for the verse.

But any rate, thanks for the friendly discussion. I wish you well.

God bless!
“not a jot or tittle can pass from the word of Moses- “

again not what I said , I said “you know what the law says about adding to or taking away jots and tittles from Moses words ? “

Then I quoted the verse you asked for that says that.

you answered my question though I understand and God bless you as well
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,178
1,800
113
The Sabbath started at Creation
the sabbath was blessed and made holy at creation. There were no laws or rules about how to "keep" it... it was only stated that God blessed that day. The "rules" came about when the old covenant was brought into play, in Exodus. And, as has been stated, it was a covenant with Israel only.
 

MeowFlower

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2024
883
406
63
youtube.com
The context is ....
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

The law reveals our sin and sin = death

But notice that Paul said it is written in our hearts. The law that was written in stone was not nailed to the cross it is written in the heart.
You might want to read Paul's journal entries,as we call them today.

Aside from that Paul there doesn't say the Law no longer exists. Never does he say that. Rather when it is written in our hearts as God said first,it has been transfered from "the rock" to our hearts.

Metaphor.
The 10 laws of God ,of the 613 Mitzvah,were written by God on rock.


Not parchment that fries and flakes away,not on animal skins that dries,rots,and is unreadable. On stone,rock. The rock of Gods 10 laws.

Of those the Sabbath that predated Sinai was to be remembered. It was not instituted when the other 9 were written.

And really,do we think before Sinai there was no law,rule against murder,stealing,lying? Do we think there was no edict to respect parents? Idolatry?

The 10 weren't created anew at Sinai. They were a reminder.
 

MeowFlower

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2024
883
406
63
youtube.com
“not a jot or tittle can pass from the word of Moses- “

again not what I said , I said “you know what the law says about adding to or taking away jots and tittles from Moses words ? “

Then I quoted the verse you asked for that says that.

you answered my question though I understand and God bless you as well
It's the law of God. Not Moses.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,178
1,800
113
Mark 2:27
And he said to them: The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.

Matthew 22:3
And he sent his servants, to call them that were invited to the marriage; and they would not come.
good grief, your repetition is like fingernails on a blackboard..... but I suppose you think it "helps you keep the Sabbath..." :rolleyes:
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,650
307
83
“not a jot or tittle can pass from the word of Moses- “

again not what I said , I said “you know what the law says about adding to or taking away jots and tittles from Moses words ? “

Then I quoted the verse you asked for that says that.

you answered my question though I understand and God bless you as well
Is the words of Moses not the same thing as Moses words?

Regardless if it is forward or backward, do you have a verse?
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,650
307
83
Leviticus 25:2-4 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD. 3Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof; 4But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.

Leviticus 26:34-35 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths. 35As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.

II Chronicles 36:20-21 And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia: 21To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.
It still does not say it was a consequence of breaking the 7 year sabbath.

There are many scriptures saying why they were taken into captivity idolatry being one of them and as a result, their land rested.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,178
1,800
113
Can you please post the verse that the New Covenant did not ratify by the blood of Jesus at the Cross, but did at some other time.

Weird Jesus would not mention to His close followers who followed Him everywhere that there was a change in the Sabbath commandment and mentioned it to no one. not one person. He didn't because He keeps His Word- not a jot or tittle will pass from His law until all is fulfilled and that is when He comes in the clouds and He makes a New Heaven and New Earth.
It is not the death of Jesus on the cross that saves us.... it is the fact that he is the firstborn of those raised from the dead that establishes his kingdom. If it was only his death, then there was no miracle in that... only a sacrifice.
The RESURRECTION is what give his sacrifice the power to be our once and only sacrifice for sins.
The kindgom was not established until after his resurrection...
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,650
307
83
the sabbath was blessed and made holy at creation. There were no laws or rules about how to "keep" it... it was only stated that God blessed that day. The "rules" came about when the old covenant was brought into play, in Exodus. And, as has been stated, it was a covenant with Israel only.
God in the Sabbath commandment connected the Sabbath starting at Creation- Remember- you can't remember something that never started previously. Christ tells us when it started in the Ten Commandments - the Sabbath has the seal to His law. It has His signature to the entire law of God.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,650
307
83
It is not the death of Jesus on the cross that saves us.... it is the fact that he is the firstborn of those raised from the dead that establishes his kingdom. If it was only his death, then there was no miracle in that... only a sacrifice.
The RESURRECTION is what give his sacrifice the power to be our once and only sacrifice for sins.
The kindgom was not established until after his resurrection...
Luke 23:56 was after He was already risen, so this agreement won't work either.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,178
1,800
113
I think I'm out of this conversation as well.... you believe what you wish.... I will continue to find my sabbath rest in Jesus.. as he told us. This has become just valueless repetition....

Let it go.jpg
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,380
1,003
113
Who said new commandments, deleted old ones? I know when we add new laws to the books, doesn't mean it deletes everything else, and no scripture say it does here, so lets not add what is not there.

When was love one another a "new" commandment? Do you think Jesus wasn't aware of what He commanded before? or was He just saying it a new way in hopes people would hear.

Lev 19:18 but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
Here is a question I asked Chat GPT.

Using the letter ( 1 John ) and the two words found in 1 John, "commandment" and "commandments".
And only using a literal reading of the New Testament. Could you precisely define what the word 'commandments' is referring to. That is, the ten commandments or 1 John 3:23-24. If you could relate your reply to the word 'love' also, as this word is highly significant.

ChatGPT said:

The interpretation of "commandment" and "commandments" in 1 John, based on a literal reading of the New Testament and focusing on the relationship to the word love, can be understood as follows:
Context in 1 John:
  1. 1 John 3:23-24 explicitly defines a central "commandment":
    • 1 John 3:23: "And this is his commandment: that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he commanded us."
    • 1 John 3:24: "Whoever keeps his commandments remains in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us."
  2. Here, "commandment" singularly focuses on faith in Jesus Christ and love for one another.
  3. 1 John 4:7-21 elaborates on love, presenting it as the essence of God's nature ("God is love") and the defining feature of a believer's life. Keeping the "commandments" involves living in love, which reflects obedience to God.
Relation to the Ten Commandments:

While 1 John does not explicitly reference the Ten Commandments, the concept of love aligns with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 22:37-40, where He summarized the Law (including the Ten Commandments) into two overarching commandments:
  • Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind.
  • Love your neighbor as yourself.
Thus, the Ten Commandments can be seen as foundational principles that are fulfilled through love. However, 1 John focuses less on these specific laws and more on the active embodiment of faith and love as the core of Christian life.

Specific Usage of "Commandment(s)" in 1 John:
  • "Commandment" (singular) refers to the unified directive of believing in Jesus and loving others.
  • "Commandments" (plural), as seen in 1 John 3:24, likely refers to living out the practical expressions of faith and love—obedience to God’s will as revealed in Christ.
The Role of Love:

Love is the defining principle:
  • Love is how believers demonstrate they are keeping God's commandments.
  • Love reflects God’s nature and presence within believers (1 John 4:12-16).
  • Love serves as the fulfillment and goal of all commandments (see also Romans 13:8-10).
Conclusion:
Using 1 John alone and a literal New Testament perspective, "commandments" most directly refers to the expressions of faith in Jesus Christ and love for others (1 John 3:23-24). These are not contradictory to the Ten Commandments but rather their fulfillment in Christ, as love encapsulates their purpose.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,380
1,003
113
I'm not sure how its random, you said scripture says not a jot or tittle can pass from the word of Moses- I asked you for the verse.

But any rate, thanks for the friendly discussion. I wish you well.

God bless!
Here is a question I asked Chat GPT.

Using a literal reading of the New Testament without any theology, church teaching, church doctrines, church councils. Would it be fair to say that the doctrines of the Seventh Day Adventist church. Are not based on a correct understanding of the teaching of the apostle Paul. In fact, salvation can only be gained by Romans 10:9-10. Could you identify whether Paul's teaching is by grace through faith and not works. In comparison to the SDA teaching of faith plus the 10 commandments (legal works).

ChatGPT said:

Using a literal reading of the New Testament, the teachings of the Apostle Paul regarding salvation by grace through faith can be compared to the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) emphasis on faith plus adherence to the Ten Commandments. Here's a breakdown:
Paul’s Teaching on Salvation
  1. Salvation by Grace Through Faith
    • Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not the result of works, so that no one may boast."
      • Paul explicitly states that salvation is a gift from God, received by faith, not earned through works.
    • Romans 10:9-10: "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."
      • Salvation requires belief in Jesus' resurrection and a confession of faith, not adherence to specific laws.
  2. Works and the Law
    • Romans 3:28: "For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law."
      • Paul directly separates justification from "works of the law," which includes the Ten Commandments and broader Mosaic Law.
    • Galatians 2:16: "Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ."
      • Paul emphasizes that righteousness comes through faith, not legalistic adherence.
  3. The Role of Love
    • Galatians 5:14: "For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’"
      • Paul simplifies the essence of the law into love, aligning with Jesus' teaching.
SDA Emphasis on Faith and the Ten Commandments
  1. Faith Plus Obedience
    • SDAs often emphasize that faith in Christ must be accompanied by obedience to the Ten Commandments, including observance of the Sabbath (the fourth commandment).
  2. The Sabbath
    • Exodus 20:8-11 is central to SDA theology, focusing on the literal observance of the seventh-day Sabbath as a mark of true faithfulness.
  3. Works as Evidence of Faith
    • SDAs argue that keeping the commandments is a response to salvation, not a means to earn it. However, this can sometimes appear to blur the line between grace and legalism.
Comparison: Paul vs. SDA Doctrine
  1. Paul’s Teaching
    • Salvation is entirely based on grace through faith, without reliance on works or the Mosaic Law.
    • Good works (e.g., obedience, love) are the fruit of salvation, not its basis (Ephesians 2:10).
  2. SDA Doctrine
    • While SDAs affirm salvation by grace through faith, their emphasis on keeping the Ten Commandments, especially the Sabbath, could be seen as adding a "work" to faith.
  3. Romans 10:9-10
    • Paul's teaching in Romans 10:9-10 specifies that salvation comes from confessing Jesus as Lord and believing in His resurrection—no mention of legal observance.
Conclusion
A literal reading of the New Testament suggests that Paul's teaching is that salvation is by grace through faith alone, not works. While SDAs assert that obedience to the Ten Commandments is a natural result of faith, their emphasis on Sabbath observance and legal adherence risks appearing inconsistent with Paul’s clear rejection of works-based justification. Therefore, it may be fair to say that SDA teachings add an element of legalism that is not explicitly supported by Paul’s writings.
 
Nov 30, 2024
94
30
18
the sabbath was blessed and made holy at creation. There were no laws or rules about how to "keep" it... it was only stated that God blessed that day. The "rules" came about when the old covenant was brought into play, in Exodus. And, as has been stated, it was a covenant with Israel only.
Thank you for helping me to continue to keep the Sabbath holy. :love:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.