There will be no Rapture!!!
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Actually, the topic of this thread goes very far in validating the fact that the grace of God unto salvation to us in these modern times meshes together like a glove. The dispensation of grace is the very reason we are here now rather than the tribulation having already happened in the first century, leading into the Millennial Kingdom.
Ok. Good deal. I look forward to your explanation of this.
That was what the original disciples were tasked to do, which is to preach the Israel and the world as a whole. What I wonder, then, is how would they have written anything to the general populace of Gentiles for us to have record of those things today, considering that they preached to the Gentiles by mouth, but the Jews had an actual mailing address (so to speak) where they gathered together. The writings enhanced their ability to get the message out. Giving the rejecting Jews the choice to accept or reject the message, that's a freedom that ALL have throughout history, so I hope you don't mind my saying that I don't see any reason for your not understanding the times and that to which the apostles were assigned to accomplish.
There was at one time as the times transitioned over to the Gospel of Grace. Today, Jews who embrace Christ are saved the same way as Gentiles, with all being joined together into the body of Christ through faith alone rather than baptism unto the remission of sins.
I can't say how many times I've been asked as to when I was baptized after I express my faith in Christ. When I say that I have not been water baptized, some people freak out and say that I should do so immediately in order to seal my salvation. That doctrine of demons for us today is how Satan gets professing "Christians" to think that they have somehow supplemented and/or sealed their salvation by way of water baptism. That was not written TO us for today. The idea that God had no right to change in how He chooses to deal with mankind on this earth, and the means by which He chooses to bring man to salvation, that's very much akin to unbelievers and how they complain that God doesn't so things the way THEY think He should act and react. Israel is no longer the valid and functional means to attain unto salvation as it was in ages past, in the time of Christ when He walked this earth as Messiah and His apostles before Israel fell for the last time before the Lord implemented the Mystery hidden in Him from the beginning of time.
Grace and peace to you and yours as well. Feel free to ask anything that comes to mind.
MM
Ok. Good deal. I look forward to your explanation of this.
That was what the original disciples were tasked to do, which is to preach the Israel and the world as a whole. What I wonder, then, is how would they have written anything to the general populace of Gentiles for us to have record of those things today, considering that they preached to the Gentiles by mouth, but the Jews had an actual mailing address (so to speak) where they gathered together. The writings enhanced their ability to get the message out. Giving the rejecting Jews the choice to accept or reject the message, that's a freedom that ALL have throughout history, so I hope you don't mind my saying that I don't see any reason for your not understanding the times and that to which the apostles were assigned to accomplish.
There was at one time as the times transitioned over to the Gospel of Grace. Today, Jews who embrace Christ are saved the same way as Gentiles, with all being joined together into the body of Christ through faith alone rather than baptism unto the remission of sins.
I can't say how many times I've been asked as to when I was baptized after I express my faith in Christ. When I say that I have not been water baptized, some people freak out and say that I should do so immediately in order to seal my salvation. That doctrine of demons for us today is how Satan gets professing "Christians" to think that they have somehow supplemented and/or sealed their salvation by way of water baptism. That was not written TO us for today. The idea that God had no right to change in how He chooses to deal with mankind on this earth, and the means by which He chooses to bring man to salvation, that's very much akin to unbelievers and how they complain that God doesn't so things the way THEY think He should act and react. Israel is no longer the valid and functional means to attain unto salvation as it was in ages past, in the time of Christ when He walked this earth as Messiah and His apostles before Israel fell for the last time before the Lord implemented the Mystery hidden in Him from the beginning of time.
It may well be I am completely misunderstanding what you are saying so I'm going to read that link you put in your post and also what you have said in the thread you started regarding two Gospels. Hopefully I'll get a better idea from where you're coming.
I most probably won't get back to you in this thread but I'm sure our paths will cross again.
grace and peace.
I most probably won't get back to you in this thread but I'm sure our paths will cross again.
grace and peace.
MM
But He did remove them from the scene of destruction by placing them in the Ark. They were not in the midst of the flood. He also removed Rahab from the site of destruction by placing a "seal" (so to speak) on her abode and keeping her and her family out of the fighting as long as they remained inside. He also removed Lot from the scene of destruction. It is the way God operates when He is delivering judgement upon the unrighteous.
Since when does being in Christ prevent you from encountering tribulation?
Did Noah and his family suffer in the ark?
Did Rahab and those who joined her suffer in her home?
Did Lot suffer when fleeing Sodom?
Yet we have martyrs in the Great Tribulation.
Revelation 7:14
I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
You are trying to compare apples with oranges.
Did Noah and his family suffer in the ark?
Did Rahab and those who joined her suffer in her home?
Did Lot suffer when fleeing Sodom?
Yet we have martyrs in the Great Tribulation.
Revelation 7:14
I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
You are trying to compare apples with oranges.
"Since when does being in Christ prevent you from encountering tribulation?"
So the above is your question, in response to my brother in Christ, Noah being called into the Ark did not prevent him from anything, he had to endure the great flood but was kept safe inside. It was very significant God chose the words "come into"
So the same goes being in Christ, tribulation will come that's for sure, but we will endure it all who are in Christ.
No apples or oranges, just biblical truth.
So the above is your question, in response to my brother in Christ, Noah being called into the Ark did not prevent him from anything, he had to endure the great flood but was kept safe inside. It was very significant God chose the words "come into"
So the same goes being in Christ, tribulation will come that's for sure, but we will endure it all who are in Christ.
No apples or oranges, just biblical truth.
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He did not endure the flood. There was no water in the Ark.
You confuse God physically removing people out from the scene of conflict with keeping people spiritually safe within the scene of conflict. Apples and oranges.
Noah was not within the water, Rahab was not within the fighting, Lot was not within the town.
I'm being biblical too. Does claiming to be biblical make one right? I should try it more often then.
You confuse God physically removing people out from the scene of conflict with keeping people spiritually safe within the scene of conflict. Apples and oranges.
Noah was not within the water, Rahab was not within the fighting, Lot was not within the town.
I'm being biblical too. Does claiming to be biblical make one right? I should try it more often then.
He did not endure the flood. There was no water in the Ark.
You confuse God physically removing people out from the scene of conflict with keeping people spiritually safe within the scene of conflict. Apples and oranges.
Noah was not within the water, Rahab was not within the fighting, Lot was not within the town.
I'm being biblical too. Does claiming to be biblical make one right? I should try it more often then.
You confuse God physically removing people out from the scene of conflict with keeping people spiritually safe within the scene of conflict. Apples and oranges.
Noah was not within the water, Rahab was not within the fighting, Lot was not within the town.
I'm being biblical too. Does claiming to be biblical make one right? I should try it more often then.
May God continue to bless us both. Amen.
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"Noah" (Jesus' speaking of this in both Matthew 24 and Luke 17) is not being used there as a picture or illustration of "our Rapture".
Jesus is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture [/snatch]" anywhere in His Olivet Discourse (or this related Lk17 passage also speaking of Noah), which are also the "taken [and] left" contexts (speaking of His Second Coming to the earth time-slot).
[References to CONSIDER, for the above point ^ :
Compare Matthew 24:29-31 (its context ^ ) with Isaiah 27:9,12-13 (note verse 9 ["who"] is also what Subject Romans 11:27 speaks to, as well as what Subject Daniel 9:24 speaks to [again, note "who"]);
Compare also Matthew 24:[36,]42-51 (its context ^ ) with its parallel passage Luke 12:36-37,38,40-48 which passage says in v.36 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." <--- KEY phrase (etch this in your mind!!), which should be compared with Rev19:7 (which is distinct from that of Rev19:9)--the "BLESSED" servants (of the Lk12 passage and its parallel Mt24:36-51) are on the earth when He will "RETURN" to the earth (they are NEVER "caught up [/snatched away]" [as WE will be] because they are NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY," of whom "our rapture / snatch" ALONE pertains (and of whom "Enoch" ['ONE MAN'] is a TYPE, not Noah + crew)]
The earnest and honest student of Scripture will take note of these clear distinctions.
Jesus is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture [/snatch]" anywhere in His Olivet Discourse (or this related Lk17 passage also speaking of Noah), which are also the "taken [and] left" contexts (speaking of His Second Coming to the earth time-slot).
[References to CONSIDER, for the above point ^ :
Compare Matthew 24:29-31 (its context ^ ) with Isaiah 27:9,12-13 (note verse 9 ["who"] is also what Subject Romans 11:27 speaks to, as well as what Subject Daniel 9:24 speaks to [again, note "who"]);
Compare also Matthew 24:[36,]42-51 (its context ^ ) with its parallel passage Luke 12:36-37,38,40-48 which passage says in v.36 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." <--- KEY phrase (etch this in your mind!!), which should be compared with Rev19:7 (which is distinct from that of Rev19:9)--the "BLESSED" servants (of the Lk12 passage and its parallel Mt24:36-51) are on the earth when He will "RETURN" to the earth (they are NEVER "caught up [/snatched away]" [as WE will be] because they are NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY," of whom "our rapture / snatch" ALONE pertains (and of whom "Enoch" ['ONE MAN'] is a TYPE, not Noah + crew)]
The earnest and honest student of Scripture will take note of these clear distinctions.
JMH,
Paul said to prove all things. I've asked for support for what you said. Allegorizing is not an explanation. Holy Spirit has not confirmed to me what you said, so one of us is right and one is wrong...in that either you heard no such thing from Holy Spirit, or I'm simply not listening to the Voice of the Spirit.
I'm sure you have an emotional gravitation to the idea that you indeed are hearing from Holy Spirit on this topic as you have stated it, but what's the proof, for surely scripture will support itself in addition to the Lord's Spirit verifying truth to us.
So, please, offer something from scripture.
MM
Paul said to prove all things. I've asked for support for what you said. Allegorizing is not an explanation. Holy Spirit has not confirmed to me what you said, so one of us is right and one is wrong...in that either you heard no such thing from Holy Spirit, or I'm simply not listening to the Voice of the Spirit.
I'm sure you have an emotional gravitation to the idea that you indeed are hearing from Holy Spirit on this topic as you have stated it, but what's the proof, for surely scripture will support itself in addition to the Lord's Spirit verifying truth to us.
So, please, offer something from scripture.
MM
"Noah" (Jesus' speaking of this in both Matthew 24 and Luke 17) is not being used there as a picture or illustration of "our Rapture".
Jesus is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture [/snatch]" anywhere in His Olivet Discourse (or this related Lk17 passage also speaking of Noah), which are also the "taken [and] left" contexts (speaking of His Second Coming to the earth time-slot).
[References to CONSIDER, for the above point ^ :
Compare Matthew 24:29-31 (its context ^ ) with Isaiah 27:9,12-13 (note verse 9 ["who"] is also what Subject Romans 11:27 speaks to, as well as what Subject Daniel 9:24 speaks to [again, note "who"]);
Compare also Matthew 24:[36,]42-51 (its context ^ ) with its parallel passage Luke 12:36-37,38,40-48 which passage says in v.36 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." <--- KEY phrase (etch this in your mind!!), which should be compared with Rev19:7 (which is distinct from that of Rev19:9)--the "BLESSED" servants (of the Lk12 passage and its parallel Mt24:36-51) are on the earth when He will "RETURN" to the earth (they are NEVER "caught up [/snatched away]" [as WE will be] because they are NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY," of whom "our rapture / snatch" ALONE pertains (and of whom "Enoch" ['ONE MAN'] is a TYPE, not Noah + crew)]
The earnest and honest student of Scripture will take note of these clear distinctions.
Jesus is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture [/snatch]" anywhere in His Olivet Discourse (or this related Lk17 passage also speaking of Noah), which are also the "taken [and] left" contexts (speaking of His Second Coming to the earth time-slot).
[References to CONSIDER, for the above point ^ :
Compare Matthew 24:29-31 (its context ^ ) with Isaiah 27:9,12-13 (note verse 9 ["who"] is also what Subject Romans 11:27 speaks to, as well as what Subject Daniel 9:24 speaks to [again, note "who"]);
Compare also Matthew 24:[36,]42-51 (its context ^ ) with its parallel passage Luke 12:36-37,38,40-48 which passage says in v.36 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." <--- KEY phrase (etch this in your mind!!), which should be compared with Rev19:7 (which is distinct from that of Rev19:9)--the "BLESSED" servants (of the Lk12 passage and its parallel Mt24:36-51) are on the earth when He will "RETURN" to the earth (they are NEVER "caught up [/snatched away]" [as WE will be] because they are NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY," of whom "our rapture / snatch" ALONE pertains (and of whom "Enoch" ['ONE MAN'] is a TYPE, not Noah + crew)]
The earnest and honest student of Scripture will take note of these clear distinctions.
2nd, all that I stated is those who are in Christ so was Noah in the Ark. The Ark = Christ hence why God tells Noah to "come into the Ark"
Genesis 7:1
Could of God not just brought the Ark completely out of the way from the great flood, YES, did HE, NO and that is where we can see that God who does not change His ways will not change His ways come the end of age.
My question to you brother divine watermark so i may try and help you is what are you not understanding?
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He did not endure the flood. There was no water in the Ark.
You confuse God physically removing people out from the scene of conflict with keeping people spiritually safe within the scene of conflict. Apples and oranges.
Noah was not within the water, Rahab was not within the fighting, Lot was not within the town.
I'm being biblical too. Does claiming to be biblical make one right? I should try it more often then.
You confuse God physically removing people out from the scene of conflict with keeping people spiritually safe within the scene of conflict. Apples and oranges.
Noah was not within the water, Rahab was not within the fighting, Lot was not within the town.
I'm being biblical too. Does claiming to be biblical make one right? I should try it more often then.
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1
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I'm making assumptions that the boat did not fill with water so as to drown it's occupants in the same way it filled the earth and drown the rest of mankind? Hmmm, really?
Was Noah removed from the site of the water or not? He was in the ark, not the water just as the Church will be in heaven and not the earth during the last seven years.
.... and it was the word, not the wood that kept them safe.
Was Noah removed from the site of the water or not? He was in the ark, not the water just as the Church will be in heaven and not the earth during the last seven years.
.... and it was the word, not the wood that kept them safe.
I'm making assumptions that the boat did not fill with water so as to drown it's occupants in the same way it filled the earth and drown the rest of mankind? Hmmm, really?
Was Noah removed from the site of the water or not? He was in the ark, not the water just as the Church will be in heaven and not the earth during the last seven years.
.... and it was the word, not the wood that kept them safe.
Was Noah removed from the site of the water or not? He was in the ark, not the water just as the Church will be in heaven and not the earth during the last seven years.
.... and it was the word, not the wood that kept them safe.
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. Isaiah 26:20-21
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John 14:1-3
14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.