the Sabbath

[Inquisitor]

Luke 23:56 was after He was already risen, so this agreement won't work either.

Both replies submitted by Chat GPT are error free because I checked the replies.

Chat GPT was restricted to a plain, literal reading of the text.

Chat GPT has identified your error.

"Therefore, it may be fair to say that SDA teachings add an element of legalism that is not explicitly supported by Paul’s writings."

Paul wrote 13 letters in the N.T and you need to pass your doctrine through Paul's letters first.

Why is Paul important?

Because Paul wrote the doctrine of Christianity.

No other author in the New Testament did that.

Here is another good question I asked Chat GPT.

Would it be reasonable to say that Paul wrote the Christian doctrine. Given Peter states that Paul is writing about Christian doctrine. We cannot use the gospels to establish doctrine because Jesus is directly addressing the Jews. The Gentiles need to rely on Paul, more so, than the Jewish authors in the New Testament. Romans 10:9,10,11,12 are profound statements by Paul on the subject of salvation. This is a very difficult subject to negotiate given church history. In your opinion what are the two critical doctrines concerning salvation. Your replies have been very good so far.

ChatGPT said:

Thank you for your kind words! Let’s carefully consider your question about Paul’s role in shaping Christian doctrine, particularly in relation to salvation.
1. Did Paul Write the Christian Doctrine?

• Paul’s Role as a Theologian of Salvation:
  • Paul’s epistles provide the most detailed and systematic explanations of salvation, justification, grace, and faith in the New Testament. His letters address both Jews and Gentiles and tackle how Jesus’ death and resurrection apply to humanity as a whole.
  • 2 Peter 3:15-16: Peter acknowledges Paul’s writings as significant: "Our dear brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom that God gave him... His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures."
    • This indicates that Paul’s writings were already recognized as authoritative and doctrinal in the early church.
• Jesus’ Teachings and Paul’s Doctrine:
  • While the Gospels record Jesus’ direct teachings to Jews within the framework of the Old Covenant, Paul articulates how these teachings transition into the New Covenant, focusing on salvation for Gentiles (e.g., Romans 11:11-32; Galatians 3:28).
  • Paul emphasizes salvation through faith in Christ, independent of the Mosaic Law, making his writings foundational for Gentile believers.
• Conclusion:
  • It is reasonable to say that Paul’s writings form the core of Christian doctrine, especially for Gentiles. His explanations of grace, faith, and salvation have become the theological bedrock of Christianity.

2. Two Critical Doctrines Concerning Salvation

1. Salvation by Grace Through Faith Alone (Justification)
   • Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not the result of works, so that no one may boast."
     • This doctrine highlights that salvation is entirely a gift from God, received through faith, without reliance on human effort or legalistic observance.
   • Romans 3:28: "For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law."
     • Paul insists that justification (being declared righteous before God) comes only through faith in Jesus Christ, not adherence to the Mosaic Law or any "works."
   • This doctrine is critical because it sets Christianity apart from other systems of belief that emphasize merit or works as a means of achieving favor with God.
2. The Universality of Salvation (For All Who Believe)
   • Romans 10:9-12:
     • "If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, ‘Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.’ For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him."
   • This doctrine emphasizes the inclusivity of salvation:
     • Salvation is not limited by ethnicity, heritage, or prior religious affiliation.
     • All people—Jew and Gentile alike—can be saved through faith in Jesus Christ.
   • This teaching unifies believers in one body and affirms that salvation is accessible to everyone who calls on the name of the Lord.

Conclusion
The two critical doctrines concerning salvation, based on Paul’s writings, are:

1. Justification by grace through faith alone.
2. The universality of salvation for all who believe.

These doctrines ensure that salvation is understood as a divine gift, free from legalism or ethnic boundaries, and available to anyone who puts their faith in Jesus Christ. This makes Paul’s writings profoundly relevant for both individual believers and the universal church.

 

[Inquisitor]

By refusing to keep the Sabbath holy you are defiled.

Please don't judge others.

 

[Suspenders]

Please don't judge others.

Thank you for helping me to continue to keep the Sabbath holy.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Both replies submitted by Chat GPT are error free because I checked the replies.

Chat GPT was restricted to a plain, literal reading of the text.

Chat GPT has identified your error.

"Therefore, it may be fair to say that SDA teachings add an element of legalism that is not explicitly supported by Paul’s writings."

Paul wrote 13 letters in the N.T and you need to pass your doctrine through Paul's letters first.

Why is Paul important?

Because Paul wrote the doctrine of Christianity.

No other author in the New Testament did that.

Here is another good question I asked Chat GPT.

Would it be reasonable to say that Paul wrote the Christian doctrine. Given Peter states that Paul is writing about Christian doctrine. We cannot use the gospels to establish doctrine because Jesus is directly addressing the Jews. The Gentiles need to rely on Paul, more so, than the Jewish authors in the New Testament. Romans 10:9,10,11,12 are profound statements by Paul on the subject of salvation. This is a very difficult subject to negotiate given church history. In your opinion what are the two critical doctrines concerning salvation. Your replies have been very good so far.

ChatGPT said:

Thank you for your kind words! Let’s carefully consider your question about Paul’s role in shaping Christian doctrine, particularly in relation to salvation.
1. Did Paul Write the Christian Doctrine?

• Paul’s Role as a Theologian of Salvation:
  • Paul’s epistles provide the most detailed and systematic explanations of salvation, justification, grace, and faith in the New Testament. His letters address both Jews and Gentiles and tackle how Jesus’ death and resurrection apply to humanity as a whole.
  • 2 Peter 3:15-16: Peter acknowledges Paul’s writings as significant: "Our dear brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom that God gave him... His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures."
    • This indicates that Paul’s writings were already recognized as authoritative and doctrinal in the early church.
• Jesus’ Teachings and Paul’s Doctrine:
  • While the Gospels record Jesus’ direct teachings to Jews within the framework of the Old Covenant, Paul articulates how these teachings transition into the New Covenant, focusing on salvation for Gentiles (e.g., Romans 11:11-32; Galatians 3:28).
  • Paul emphasizes salvation through faith in Christ, independent of the Mosaic Law, making his writings foundational for Gentile believers.
• Conclusion:
  • It is reasonable to say that Paul’s writings form the core of Christian doctrine, especially for Gentiles. His explanations of grace, faith, and salvation have become the theological bedrock of Christianity.

2. Two Critical Doctrines Concerning Salvation

1. Salvation by Grace Through Faith Alone (Justification)
   • Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not the result of works, so that no one may boast."
     • This doctrine highlights that salvation is entirely a gift from God, received through faith, without reliance on human effort or legalistic observance.
   • Romans 3:28: "For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law."
     • Paul insists that justification (being declared righteous before God) comes only through faith in Jesus Christ, not adherence to the Mosaic Law or any "works."
   • This doctrine is critical because it sets Christianity apart from other systems of belief that emphasize merit or works as a means of achieving favor with God.
2. The Universality of Salvation (For All Who Believe)
   • Romans 10:9-12:
     • "If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, ‘Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.’ For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him."
   • This doctrine emphasizes the inclusivity of salvation:
     • Salvation is not limited by ethnicity, heritage, or prior religious affiliation.
     • All people—Jew and Gentile alike—can be saved through faith in Jesus Christ.
   • This teaching unifies believers in one body and affirms that salvation is accessible to everyone who calls on the name of the Lord.

Conclusion
The two critical doctrines concerning salvation, based on Paul’s writings, are:

1. Justification by grace through faith alone.
2. The universality of salvation for all who believe.

These doctrines ensure that salvation is understood as a divine gift, free from legalism or ethnic boundaries, and available to anyone who puts their faith in Jesus Christ. This makes Paul’s writings profoundly relevant for both individual believers and the universal church.

I think you misunderstand.

We are not saved by keeping the law, we are saved by grace through faith.

We all have sinned and deserve death, so no one is saved by the law.

All the law does is point out what is right and what is wrong according to God. Rom 3:20 Rom 7:7 It can't save us but points us to the One who can- Jesus.

Jesus doesn't save us in our sins, He saves us from sin Mat 1:21, and if we surrender to Jesus. He lives in us and does what we can't do by ourselves, live righteously obeying all of the laws. This is the faith that works, its not our works but Christ, we just have to cooperate with Him though love and faith

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

He doesn't make us do it alone, so not sure why people are fighting against His righteous way of living. If we abide in Him, we will follow the path that Jesus took, following in His footsteps, He is leading the way back to reconciliation Rev 22:14.

 

[Inquisitor]

I think you misunderstand.

We are not saved by keeping the law, we are saved by grace through faith.

We all have sinned and deserve death, so no one is saved by the law.

All the law does is point out what is right and what is wrong according to God. Rom 3:20 Rom 7:7 It can't save us but points us to the One who can- Jesus.

Jesus doesn't save us in our sins, He saves us from sin Mat 1:21, and if we surrender to Jesus. He lives in us and does what we can't do by ourselves, live righteously obeying all of the laws. This is the faith that works, its not our works but Christ, we just have to cooperate with Him though love and faith

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

He doesn't make us do it alone, so not sure why people are fighting against His righteous way of living. If we abide in Him, we will follow the path that Jesus took, following in His footsteps, He is leading the way back to reconciliation Rev 22:14.

The simple, plain, literal reading of Paul's 13 letters omits legal obedience.

As Chat GPT states below.

Comparison: Paul vs. SDA Doctrine

1. Paul’s Teaching
   • Salvation is entirely based on grace through faith, without reliance on works or the Mosaic Law.
   • Good works (e.g., obedience, love) are the fruit of salvation, not its basis (Ephesians 2:10).
2. SDA Doctrine
   • While SDAs affirm salvation by grace through faith, their emphasis on keeping the Ten Commandments, especially the Sabbath, could be seen as adding a "work" to faith.
3. Romans 10:9-10
   • Paul's teaching in Romans 10:9-10 specifies that salvation comes from confessing Jesus as Lord and believing in His resurrection—no mention of legal observance.

 

[GWH]

I don't think Paul mentions the word "sabbath" once in twelve letters he wrote.

The only time Paul mentioned the "sabbath" was in Colossians 2:16 but that was a warning.

Not to let the SDA judge you for not observing the sabbath (my interpretation).

This is a clue that the apostle to the Gentiles is not proclaiming a sabbath observance.

Surely the greatest command in the ten would appear in his letters some where.

Exactly! Nor do I see SB mentioning Paul's teaching of GRFS or salvation via faith in the Gospel or HB teaching that the OT is superseded or NT Scripture commanding Christians to continue observing the Sabbath law--because there are NONE! (Is that a duck quacking?)

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The simple, plain, literal reading of Paul's 13 letters omits legal obedience.

As Chat GPT states below.

Comparison: Paul vs. SDA Doctrine

1. Paul’s Teaching
   • Salvation is entirely based on grace through faith, without reliance on works or the Mosaic Law.
   • Good works (e.g., obedience, love) are the fruit of salvation, not its basis (Ephesians 2:10).
2. SDA Doctrine
   • While SDAs affirm salvation by grace through faith, their emphasis on keeping the Ten Commandments, especially the Sabbath, could be seen as adding a "work" to faith.
3. Romans 10:9-10
   • Paul's teaching in Romans 10:9-10 specifies that salvation comes from confessing Jesus as Lord and believing in His resurrection—no mention of legal observance.

The Sabbath is about rest, not work. Why I prefer my bible over AI.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

He doesn't make us do it alone, so not sure why people are fighting against His righteous way of living.

The just (righteous) will live by faith, not works of law. It takes a twisted mind to call works of law faith.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:16-17​

​

​

 

[Inquisitor]

He doesn't make us do it alone, so not sure why people are fighting against His righteous way of living. If we abide in Him, we will follow the path that Jesus took, following in His footsteps, He is leading the way back to reconciliation Rev 22:14.

If you read carefully what you said below.

"so not sure why people are fighting against His righteous way of living"

No one on Christian Forums is fighting against Jesus and His righteousness, granted to us in the
form of a free gift. I freely ask for His righteousness and I fully reject my own defiled righteousness.

None of us can live a righteous life in Christ or without Christ.

I am perfectly righteous and will always be perfectly righteous, because I believe in Jesus.

There is no righteous way of living without the filth of sin splattered all through our works.

Boast in Jesus at all times and forget your dead works, legalism, or thinking your righteous.

 

[Inquisitor]

The Sabbath is about rest, not work. Why I prefer my bible over AI.

A shame that you don't read the simple letters in New Testament.

You prefer to interpret the text in order to promote the sabbath.

That is very clear spelt out by Chat GPT which gives you the literal reading of the text.

Chat GPT will give you, nothing more or less, when you restrict it to the literal reading of the text.

 

[Inquisitor]

The Sabbath is about rest, not work. Why I prefer my bible over AI.

The sabbath is a law.

The sabbath belongs to Israel and in a covenant between God and Israel.

The Bible tells you directly that Gentiles are not under the law.

Your faulty reading of the text causes you to exalt the sabbath above everything else.

You named your church after the sabbath law.

Is there no end to this fanatical sabbath day worship?

 

[stilllearning]

There is no sacrifices in the Sabbath commandment

I think this is very clear.

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The seventh day which is Saturday is the Sabbath and we are commanded to keep the Sabbath day holy.

Did it change in the NC?

Luke 23: 56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

There is also no sabbath command against sacrifice on the sabbath. Like I said they could worship on the sabbath if they so chose but it had to be done at the temple or prior to that the tabernacle. As again only one place was it allowed.

Numbers 28:9-10 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: 10This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

A burnt offering is a sacrifice and the burnt offering is one that was done voluntarily.

Leviticus 1:2-3 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock. 3If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

There is also no sabbath command against sacrifice on the sabbath. Like I said they could worship on the sabbath if they so chose but it had to be done at the temple or prior to that the tabernacle. As again only one place was it allowed.

Numbers 28:9-10 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: 10This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

A burnt offering is a sacrifice and the burnt offering is one that was done voluntarily.

Leviticus 1:2-3 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock. 3If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.

The Sabbath started at Creation, no sacrifices needed, because no sin.

In the Sabbath commandment- there is nothing about sacrifices, it is about keeping the Sabbath day holy and resting from works and labors.

There was sacrifices daily for sin because people sinned daily even on the Sabbath, but sacrifices and the Sabbath were never married.

When Jesus came, He took away for the need for sacrifices for sin, because He became our sacrificial Lamb. So instead of taking a lamb or goat to a Levitical priest we can go directly to Jesus when we sin, when we repent, confess which means a change of heart and a change of direction.

Sin is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 any of the Ten Commandments James 2;10-12 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30

Why the Sabbath continued on in the NT according to the commandment Luke 23:56

The Sabbath continued in the NC not once having an animal sacrifice because they were never married.

 

[Sipsey]

Thank you for helping me to continue to keep the Sabbath holy.

Your practices are between you and God. I ain’t got nothing to do with your justification.

 

[stilllearning]

The Sabbath started at Creation, no sacrifices needed, because no sin.

In the Sabbath commandment- there is nothing about sacrifices, it is about keeping the Sabbath day holy and resting from works and labors.

There was sacrifices daily for sin because people sinned daily even on the Sabbath, but sacrifices and the Sabbath were never married.

When Jesus came, He took away for the need for sacrifices for sin, because He became our sacrificial Lamb. So instead of taking a lamb or goat to a Levitical priest we can go directly to Jesus when we sin, when we repent, confess which means a change of heart and a change of direction.

Sin is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 any of the Ten Commandments James 2;10-12 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30

Why the Sabbath continued on in the NT according to the commandment Luke 23:56

The Sabbath continued in the NC not once having an animal sacrifice because they were never married.

Not at all the burnt offering was one that was voluntary as described in Leviticus 1. The sin offering was mandatory as described in Leviticus 4 and 5. It was two different offerings for two different purposes. Which of course the word sacrifice means to make holy.

The first mention of the burnt offering is by Noah in Genesis which he offered when he came out of the Ark. So they serve two different purposes and the law points them out, as well as how to treat the blood in each.

So yeah they could offer a burnt offering on the sabbath if they so inclined since it was voluntary which the sin offering was mandatory.

 

[TMS]

None of us can live a righteous life in Christ or without Christ.

I am perfectly righteous and will always be perfectly righteous, because I believe in Jesus.

I don't teach righteousness by work or by keeping the law.
But I do believe in more then justification by faith.
I believe in sanctification by faith.
Both are a gift. Both are by faith.

The Bible teaches sanctification and I'm not sure why you avoid it.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Is the words of Moses not the same thing as Moses words?

Regardless if it is forward or backward, do you have a verse?

You aren’t reading them waste of time

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Not at all the burnt offering was one that was voluntary as described in Leviticus 1. The sin offering was mandatory as described in Leviticus 4 and 5. It was two different offerings for two different purposes. Which of course the word sacrifice means to make holy.

The first mention of the burnt offering is by Noah in Genesis which he offered when he came out of the Ark. So they serve two different purposes and the law points them out, as well as how to treat the blood in each.

So yeah they could offer a burnt offering on the sabbath if they so inclined since it was voluntary which the sin offering was mandatory.

Can you point out any offerings made on the Sabbath in the NT? Those ended at the Cross but the weekly Sabbath according to the commandment ended.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I don't teach righteousness by work or by keeping the law.
But I do believe in more then justification by faith.
I believe in sanctification by faith.
Both are a gift. Both are by faith.

The Bible teaches sanctification and I'm not sure why you avoid it.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭

“Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭

“For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:

and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:34-36‬ ‭

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Sipsey]

I have never met a more stubborn populace that is more concerned with resting on a particular day, instead of focusing on sharing the Good News with a ton of lost souls.