Understanding God’s election

[HeIsHere]

Agree. And @Cameron143 does believe this. Certainly an unbiblical notion to say the least.

BTW, I hear that you are not a dispensationalist. Thats all well and good, as this is yet another simplistic moniker.

What you are REALLY dealing with is prophecy.
That which has come to pass.
That which is in play presently (a lot including much to do with the Nation Israel).
That which is soon coming to pass (trib, the repentance/redemption of Israel, the Millennial reign etc).

None of this registers with @Cameron143 .
Despite the overwhelming evidence to support it. I mean just look out your window, or watch the "news".

I do not see a future utopia here on earth in scripture, even in the partial preterist camp I have not come across this so I do not know much about it but my spidey sense aka spiritual discernment (lol) at the outset says.. NO

 

[Rufus]

Grow up......it's part of your doctrinal formula. Trotted out endlessly.

Another lie! It's obvious to me to which seed you belong in Gen 3:15! (And it ain't the Woman's!). Like father, like son!

 

[Cameron143]

They think nothing of downgrading God's omnipotence.

I think they prioritize love over everything else.

 

[Rufus]

Will there ever be an attempt to grapple with this, no.

The answer is always the same, "you do not understand how fallen man is"

Augustine over Jesus that is what I read on these threads.

Regeneration is analogous to physical life. A baby in the womb is alive for about 9 months, is it not? So, why do you marvel that a spiritually regenerated person cannot be alive prior to its actual birth which occurs when a person consciously believes the gospel in his heart and confesses Christ as his Lord.

Metaphors matter!

 

[Cameron143]

Do you think you know?

Yes, it would go back to the way it was in the beginning...not the garden itself, but all things restored.

 

[Cranberry]

If we read God's word should t we believe what it tells us?

And Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Jesus said, I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.

 

[Rufus]

As He chooses after, He alone knows who accepted His drawing, and those who rejected!

SBS!

Prove it from scripture! God's will is never contingent on his creature's will. God works ALL things after the counsel of his own will and does whatsoever he pleases.

Besides, a man's life is not his own; he does not direct his own steps (Jer 10:23).

 

[Cameron143]

Agree insofar as this present condition and state of prophetic fulfillment.
And @Cameron143 does believe this non-interventionalist (in terms of prophecy and judgement) utopia business. Certainly an unbiblical notion to say the least.

BTW, I hear that you are not a dispensationalist. Thats all well and good, as this is yet another simplistic moniker.

What you are REALLY dealing with is prophecy.
That which has come to pass.
That which is in play presently (a lot including much to do with the Nation Israel).
That which is soon coming to pass (trib, the repentance/redemption of Israel, the Millennial reign etc).

None of this registers with @Cameron143 .
Despite the overwhelming evidence to support it. I mean just look out your window, or watch the "news".

As usual, you misrepresent my position.

 

[cv5]

Prove it from scripture! God's will is never contingent on his creature's will. God works ALL things after the counsel of his own will and does whatsoever he pleases.

Besides, a man's life is not his own; he does not direct his own steps (Jer 10:23).

A flawed Calvinite interpretation of that passage. As usual.

 

[Magenta]

I think they prioritize love over everything else.

Really? I don't see it. But they do prioritize man's power over God's power while downplaying
and/or completely ignoring and actually denying what the Bible says of the natural man.

 

[cv5]

“This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Thats right. Granted. For example a land grant....it needs a petitioner.
Salvation is granted by grace and mercy in response to the plea of the petitioner, the repentant soul who desires to enter into the covenant of life and peace.

If you CHOOSE not to ask, then there is NO POSSIBILITY of obtaining the grant so promised.

And just so you know, covenants OF ANY KIND are not even necessary in a system of a pre-selection lottery before you were ever born.
This concept escapes the Calvinites of course. It's a monkey wrench in their fatalistic machinery. Calvinites like it simple.

[Pro 1:22 KJV]
How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

 

[Cameron143]

I think they prioritize love over everything else.

I see I should have worded this differently. I think they prioritize God's love over His other attributes.

 

[Cameron143]

Really? I don't see it. But they do prioritize man's power over God's power while downplaying
and/or completely ignoring and actually denying what the Bible says of the natural man.

See post #2452.

 

[Genez]

And you thought Calvinists were pessimistic?

Well... all things are possible. Why not?

 

[Cameron143]

Really? I don't see it. But they do prioritize man's power over God's power while downplaying
and/or completely ignoring and actually denying what the Bible says of the natural man.

This is based on their concept of God's love. But I do believe it causes them to disregard aspects of the estate of fallen man.

 

[Genez]

Sure, it would only apply to things that remain possible, and not restricted or prohibited by God. Surely you know this doesn't apply to the content of the current discussion.

Remain possible?

All things are possible?

Was there an expiration date?

 

[Genez]

Prove it from scripture! God's will is never contingent on his creature's will. God works ALL things after the counsel of his own will and does whatsoever he pleases.

Besides, a man's life is not his own; he does not direct his own steps (Jer 10:23).

YOU PROVE IT!

I am gauging by God's nature. Just. Fair… Always truthful.

You guys keep transforming God's nature into Satan's nature without realizing it.

God is going to do what He damn well pleases!

 

[cv5]

But I do believe it causes them to disregard aspects of the estate of fallen man.

How the Calvintes escaped "total depravity" we will never know.
And how God defied His Rom 2:11 principle of being "no respecter of persons" on behalf of the Calvinites is simply shocking.

Now these chosenites can look down on these OTHER "fallen men" in pity and distain. Which they do. Very commonly.
In fact this doomed hopeless "fallen man.....the other guy" prejudice is one of the Calvinite calling cards.

 

[HeIsHere]

I see I should have worded this differently. I think they prioritize God's love over His other attributes.

The God of the bible is not balanced out by His attributes.

“God is love,” declares it is God’s intrinsic character, it is NOT one piece of the pie.... it what underlies all God's attributes.

Therefore God then can never deny his innate nature and contradict love.
And sovereignty (correctly understood) is never to be viewed as part of balancing out God's love.
That is not scriptural.

 

[HeIsHere]

YOU PROVE IT!

I am gauging by God's nature. Just. Fair… Always truthful.

You guys keep transforming God's nature into Satan's nature without realizing it.

God is going to do what He damn well pleases!

It's ridiculous the lengths the doctrine will go in direct opposition to what God reveals about Himself.