Understanding God’s election
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Ephesians 2:11-12
Therefore remember that previously you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision”
by the so-called “Circumcision” which is performed in the flesh by human hands remember that you
were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants
of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Your saying the polar opposite of what Paul is saying.
Paul said you did not have the Holy Spirit (the seal), you had no hope and without God in the world.
Your saying you were in Christ when you were born and Paul is saying you were separate from Christ.
Why is it that you contradict Paul at every step of THE WAY?
Therefore remember that previously you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision”
by the so-called “Circumcision” which is performed in the flesh by human hands remember that you
were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants
of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Your saying the polar opposite of what Paul is saying.
Paul said you did not have the Holy Spirit (the seal), you had no hope and without God in the world.
Your saying you were in Christ when you were born and Paul is saying you were separate from Christ.
Why is it that you contradict Paul at every step of THE WAY?
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She was given life because she sought it from the God of salvation. She was granted life after she petitioned the God of salvation for it. She wisely and bravely stepped forward and by actions motivated by her will overcame her dire and horrendous circumstances. She was stricken with fear and despair and reached out to the God of salvation Who mercifully responded to her pleas.
Reminds me of the woman with the issue of blood chasing after Jesus.
Among many many other characters in dire straits in the Gospels.
Rahab never met a Calvinite in her life. And lucky for her she didn't. It probably would've proved to be fatal.
Reminds me of the woman with the issue of blood chasing after Jesus.
Among many many other characters in dire straits in the Gospels.
Rahab never met a Calvinite in her life. And lucky for her she didn't. It probably would've proved to be fatal.
As a point of historical note, Charles Taze Russell, the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses, experienced this very bewilderment I have spoken of. In the book, Jehovah's Witnesses, Proclaimers of God's Kingdom it explains, "Charles' parents sincerely believed the creeds of Christendom's churches and brought him up to accept them too. Young Charles was thus taught that God is love, yet that he had created men inherently immortal and had provided a fiery place in which he would eternally torment all except those who had been predestined to be saved. Such an idea repulsed the honest heart of teenage Charles. He reasoned: A God that would use his power to create human beings whom he foreknew and predestinated should be eternally tormented, could neither be wise, just or loving. His standard would be lower than that of many men." The article concludes with "...turning away from church creeds and searching for the truth..." (page 43).
https://www.wholesomewords.org/etexts/huss/fourimpl.pdf
https://www.wholesomewords.org/etexts/huss/fourimpl.pdf
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She didn't seek spiritual life, yet she was given it being one of God's elect which happens to all of the saved.
There are two levels that are involved: the spiritual and the earthly. She was given life in the spiritual,
and that life manifested itself into her earthly actions, without which, she wouldn't have done so.
You see only earthly result but are unable to comprehend/recognize spiritual cause.
There are two levels that are involved: the spiritual and the earthly. She was given life in the spiritual,
and that life manifested itself into her earthly actions, without which, she wouldn't have done so.
You see only earthly result but are unable to comprehend/recognize spiritual cause.
The Word just quoted "You heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit" (EPH 1:13) begs to differ and harmonizes with the truth in 1TM 2:3-4, "God our Savior wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth", which jibes with DT 30:19, "I have set before you life and death... Now choose life..."m which agrees with MT 23:37, "How often I have longed to gather your children together... but you were not willing", which fits with MT 13:15, "This people's heart has become calloused... and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise... I would heal them", etcetera...
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The doctrine of election can be harmonized with the doctrine of an all-loving God by understanding the meaning of “in Christ” in Ephesians 1:3-14.
1:3, “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will, to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all thins in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.”
In the EPH passage we can see that what the all-loving God predestined was NOT that some souls would be damned, but rather the plan of salvation to elect potentially all humanity, whom He loves and atoned for (1TM 2:3-5), if they exercise their God-given grace of volition to accept His offer of grace IN Christ (2THS 2:10).
1:3, “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will, to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all thins in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.”
In the EPH passage we can see that what the all-loving God predestined was NOT that some souls would be damned, but rather the plan of salvation to elect potentially all humanity, whom He loves and atoned for (1TM 2:3-5), if they exercise their God-given grace of volition to accept His offer of grace IN Christ (2THS 2:10).
I've already been through all of the points you've raised, probably with you.
The seal is given when someone, as a result of salvation, truly believes. Believing doesn't bring salvation; it comes from salvation.
Being indwelled by the Holy Spirit is different than being sealed and occurs when someone is born-again through salvation.
DT 20:19 was a choice given under the Old Covenant of works, which choice, is one of the covenant's required works.
In the New Covenant, however, no such choice on the part of the recipient was permitted. God made all of the choices - it was/is a unilateral covenant. The "all" of 1 T, 2:3-4, represents "all" the Father gives to Jesus for salvation. If the Father desired everyone to become saved, He would then give everyone to the Son, but He doesn't. It is on the basis of having been given to the Son, that specific individuals become saved. Those who are given, cannot, not, become saved; those not given cannot become saved. MT 23:37 is speaking about God no longer using the corporate Jewish church to manifest His true salvation message due to their spiritual fornication and the worship of other Gods in failing to recognize Jesus as Savior. That is why MT 23:38 says "your house is left unto you desolate". Their "house" was left desolate because God moved the teaching of the salvation message away from their house - the Jewish corporate church- making it desolate that no one would/could be saved through it - and placed it into the hands of the disciples. The "calloused" heart ETC, represents the unsaved heart. When, and if, someone becomes saved, through the New Covenant, a new heart given them by God. The same with the eyes. Notice that Mat 13:15 says "but blessed are your...' that means their eyes first had been blessed, in order for them to be able to spiritually see, spiritually hear, etc. Only from that blessing, were they able to do so.
The seal is given when someone, as a result of salvation, truly believes. Believing doesn't bring salvation; it comes from salvation.
Being indwelled by the Holy Spirit is different than being sealed and occurs when someone is born-again through salvation.
DT 20:19 was a choice given under the Old Covenant of works, which choice, is one of the covenant's required works.
In the New Covenant, however, no such choice on the part of the recipient was permitted. God made all of the choices - it was/is a unilateral covenant. The "all" of 1 T, 2:3-4, represents "all" the Father gives to Jesus for salvation. If the Father desired everyone to become saved, He would then give everyone to the Son, but He doesn't. It is on the basis of having been given to the Son, that specific individuals become saved. Those who are given, cannot, not, become saved; those not given cannot become saved. MT 23:37 is speaking about God no longer using the corporate Jewish church to manifest His true salvation message due to their spiritual fornication and the worship of other Gods in failing to recognize Jesus as Savior. That is why MT 23:38 says "your house is left unto you desolate". Their "house" was left desolate because God moved the teaching of the salvation message away from their house - the Jewish corporate church- making it desolate that no one would/could be saved through it - and placed it into the hands of the disciples. The "calloused" heart ETC, represents the unsaved heart. When, and if, someone becomes saved, through the New Covenant, a new heart given them by God. The same with the eyes. Notice that Mat 13:15 says "but blessed are your...' that means their eyes first had been blessed, in order for them to be able to spiritually see, spiritually hear, etc. Only from that blessing, were they able to do so.
In rereading my prior post to you it, I phrased something in it inaccurately, so I'll modify it now.
Instead of saying " the Jewish corporate church- making it desolate that no one would/could be saved through it - and placed it into the hands of the disciples.". That is incorrect because salvation is only of/by God not man. What I should have instead said is "within the corporate Jewish Church, God's true salvation message of Christ would not be found". And so, God made it desolate.
Instead of saying " the Jewish corporate church- making it desolate that no one would/could be saved through it - and placed it into the hands of the disciples.". That is incorrect because salvation is only of/by God not man. What I should have instead said is "within the corporate Jewish Church, God's true salvation message of Christ would not be found". And so, God made it desolate.