Timeline for following verses

[Pilgrimshope]

Greetings Pilgrimshope

We all see things a little different which probably means we are all wrong in some points. Have you taken into consideration Revelation 20?

Yes brother I’ve considered revelation 20 and I think they are reigning here

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remember jesus telling them this ?

“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And then

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Concerning the thousand years I don’t see it as a literal thousand years as we see time

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i don’t think given revelations nature it’s literally a thousand year time period on this earth but measures a long period of time they reign in this place before the end of the earth

This really speaks to what I’m saying

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe the saints who rose are with him reigning in heavens Jerusalem if you look at revelation you see many people in heaven worshipping while the earth is still active warring with Satan

Heavens realm and also earths realm are shown in revelation I believe Jesus and his saints of the first resirrection are reigning in heaven and again a thousand years represents a long time period sort of like this isn’t literal in my opinion but represents a short time period

“And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t think it’s literally an hour and don’t think it’s literally a thousand years

Bit as you said it’s just my view of it from scripture and others have thoer voews also from scripture

Avery much appreciate the good spirit and tone you present for discussion ,God bless

 

[keepingthingsreal]

As I understand "keepingthingsreal" to say Christ's reign ends at the at the end of the millennium. We are talking post millennium, when Gog and Magog do battle with Israel.

I also believe that Christ will still be reigning at that time. I will explain why later. I am a bit strapped for time at the moment.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

As I understand "keepingthingsreal" to say Christ's reign ends at the at the end of the millennium. We are talking post millennium, when Gog and Magog do battle with Israel.

The New Jerusalem doesn't touchdown on earth until after the Gog/Magog battle. So Christ will be reigning until that point when God the father is in our midst

 

[tttallison]

These prophecies, like those in Jeremiah, Hosea, and Ezekiel, share a common thread: a future, messianic figure from the line of David who will bring about the restoration of Israel, establish God’s reign, and usher in an era of peace and righteousness. They all anticipate the end times or the Messianic age, when these promises will be fully realized. Many of these prophecies are seen as fulfilled in Jesus Christ, the descendant of David, while in Jewish thought, they point to the future coming of the Messiah who will restore Israel.

I removed the majority of your post in order to concentrate on the last paragraph, which to some extent is a summary of your post.

I believe the Messianic age has taken place, with the exception of the marriage and the thousand-year reign.

I believe the Jews are right in believing of a future restoration of Israel. IMO they will not get a second chance to reject Jesus.

Paul said the Jews are the enemies of the Gospel for your sakes, when speaking to the Romans.

Please do not be offended that I removed some of your relevant verses. I have trouble concentrating.

 

[vassal]

I removed the majority of your post in order to concentrate on the last paragraph, which to some extent is a summary of your post.

I believe the Messianic age has taken place, with the exception of the marriage and the thousand-year reign.

I believe the Jews are right in believing of a future restoration of Israel. IMO they will not get a second chance to reject Jesus.

Paul said the Jews are the enemies of the Gospel for your sakes, when speaking to the Romans.

Please do not be offended that I removed some of your relevant verses. I have trouble concentrating.

How can you.have a messianic age without a messiah. according to the scripture you provided it is evident that the messianic age will start on Jesus second advent. this has not yet happened.

Peace.

 

[tttallison]

You're assuming from one parable that there are only 2 groups of people in the world when Christ returns; those saved and those destroyed. Other scripture says God's people will rule the nations with a rod of iron. How can that be true if there are no people to rule? It can't. So in situations like this it is best to not focus too intently on one parable and let the sum of scripture reveal the truth

Is there a third group beyond the lost and the saved?

Yes brother I’ve considered revelation 20 and I think they are reigning here

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remember jesus telling them this ?

“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And then

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Concerning the thousand years I don’t see it as a literal thousand years as we see time

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i don’t think given revelations nature it’s literally a thousand year time period on this earth but measures a long period of time they reign in this place before the end of the earth

This really speaks to what I’m saying

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe the saints who rose are with him reigning in heavens Jerusalem if you look at revelation you see many people in heaven worshipping while the earth is still active warring with Satan

Heavens realm and also earths realm are shown in revelation I believe Jesus and his saints of the first resirrection are reigning in heaven and again a thousand years represents a long time period sort of like this isn’t literal in my opinion but represents a short time period

“And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t think it’s literally an hour and don’t think it’s literally a thousand years

Bit as you said it’s just my view of it from scripture and others have thoer voews also from scripture

Avery much appreciate the good spirit and tone you present for discussion ,God bless

Referring to 2 Peter 3:8. and the literal or non-literal thousand years.

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. (Notice that we are brought back to the beginning of creation. The scoffers are asking when is Jesus coming? I believe the scripture is saying, you want to know when Christ is coming, consider that one day is as a thousand years. Six days of creation, and a day of rest equals seven days. if one day equals a thousand years it will be 7,000 years to the end of the millennium. The Talmud supports this view.)

"It was taught in the School of Elijah, the world will endure 6,000 years - 2,000 years in chaos, 2,000 with Torah, and 2,000 years will be the days of the Messiah." [Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 97a]

"The Holy One brought forth the soul of Messiah, and said to him, ‘Art thou willing to be created and to redeem my sons after 6,000 years?’ He replied, ‘I am.’ G~d replied, ‘If so, thou must take upon thyself chastisements in order to wipe away their iniquity, as it is written, ‘Surely our sicknesses he has carried.’ The Messiah answered, ‘I will take them upon me gladly.’" [P’Siqtha according to Hulsius in "Theologia Judaica"]

​

---------------------R. Kattina said: Six thousand years shall the world exist, and one [thousand, the seventh], it shall be desolate, as it is written, And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. [Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 97a]

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Is there a third group beyond the lost and the saved?

How about people that haven't been saved yet, but are on Christ's bucket list to save after he returns

 

[vassal]

Is there a third group beyond the lost and the saved?



Referring to 2 Peter 3:8. and the literal or non-literal thousand years.

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. (Notice that we are brought back to the beginning of creation. The scoffers are asking when is Jesus coming? I believe the scripture is saying, you want to know when Christ is coming, consider that one day is as a thousand years. Six days of creation, and a day of rest equals seven days. if one day equals a thousand years it will be 7,000 years to the end of the millennium. The Talmud supports this view.)

"It was taught in the School of Elijah, the world will endure 6,000 years - 2,000 years in chaos, 2,000 with Torah, and 2,000 years will be the days of the Messiah." [Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 97a]

"The Holy One brought forth the soul of Messiah, and said to him, ‘Art thou willing to be created and to redeem my sons after 6,000 years?’ He replied, ‘I am.’ G~d replied, ‘If so, thou must take upon thyself chastisements in order to wipe away their iniquity, as it is written, ‘Surely our sicknesses he has carried.’ The Messiah answered, ‘I will take them upon me gladly.’" [P’Siqtha according to Hulsius in "Theologia Judaica"]

​

---------------------R. Kattina said: Six thousand years shall the world exist, and one [thousand, the seventh], it shall be desolate, as it is written, And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. [Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 97a]

Friend, Since you are talking of this particular topic in your Opening post, I will tell you something I have not told many, seven years ago I had daily visions of the word EXODUS This occurred many times per day for more than one month. a bit later, another type of visions the same as exodus vision, also only words flashing in front of my eyes, these words were " Jacaob's trouble" this lasted about one week.

We are at the beginning of Jacob's trouble and Christ is coming soon, with the advent of Christ, the remnant of Israel scatters all over the world will be brought back to the promised land, it is in prophecy for the end times, also know many prophecy have a dual fulfillment.

Blessings.

 

[tttallison]

How can you.have a messianic age without a messiah. according to the scripture you provided it is evident that the messianic age will start on Jesus second advent. this has not yet happened.

Peace.

I hope you were not offended when I left out part of your post. I am sorry.

My background has left me unfamiliar with a lot of church terminology such as Messianic age. I am not sure of what that encompasses.
I would assume that it starts with the birth of Christ and ends with the last page of the book.

The term Messianic does not appear in my Bible, and the term Messiah appears just twice. Annointed occurs over a hundred times.

The word advent does not appear either. This may seem like mincing words, and I apologize. It is just that biblical words provide more clarity, at least for me.

I see that I did use the term, Messianic age, in a reciprocal way, but without understanding its complete meaning. Could you help me understand more fully your question on post 185?

 

[tttallison]

How about people that haven't been saved yet, but are on Christ's bucket list to save after he returns

If they are not saved before he returns, they are lost. The virgin had no oil for her lamp.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

If they are not saved before he returns, they are lost. The virgin had no oil for her lamp.

The virgins with no oil expect his return, ie they are 'Christians'.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

The term Messianic does not appear in my Bible, and the term Messiah appears just twice. Annointed occurs over a hundred times.

I only have a couple of minutes, but I wanted to quickly address what you said here. As I trust you already know, the Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew, with tiny portions of it written in Aramaic. The Hebrew word māšîaḥ, which is where we derive the English word Messiah from, appears 39 times in the original Hebrew of the Old Testament. 37 of those times it has been translated into English as anointed, and two of those times it has been translated into English as Messiah, but it is still the same word. You can see this for yourself by clicking on this link.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h4899/kjv/wlc/0-1/

Also, I already quoted you one place in the Old Testament where the Hebrew word māšîaḥ has been translated into English as anointed.

Psa 2:2
The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

While quoting this verse in the New Testament, Luke used the Greek word christos, which is the equivalent of the Hebrew word māšîaḥ, and which has been translated into English as Christ.

Act 4:26
The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

My point is that although the translators of the KJV only translated māšîaḥ as Messiah twice in the Old Testament, this does not mean that in other places where it was used, as in Psalm 2:2 that I just quoted you, it does not carry the same meaning of Messiah.

I will try to get to at least one of your other comments tomorrow.

 

[tttallison]

The virgins with no oil expect his return, ie they are 'Christians'.

I they are Christians they are saved. Two groups saved and lost.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I they are Christians they are saved. Two groups saved and lost.

You need to read more of the NT like I told you earlier. Many call themselves Christians, but are not

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23​

 

[tttallison]

I only have a couple of minutes, but I wanted to quickly address what you said here. As I trust you already know, the Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew, with tiny portions of it written in Aramaic. The Hebrew word māšîaḥ, which is where we derive the English word Messiah from, appears 39 times in the original Hebrew of the Old Testament. 37 of those times it has been translated into English as anointed, and two of those times it has been translated into English as Messiah, but it is still the same word. You can see this for yourself by clicking on this link.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h4899/kjv/wlc/0-1/

Also, I already quoted you one place in the Old Testament where the Hebrew word māšîaḥ has been translated into English as anointed.

Psa 2:2
The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

While quoting this verse in the New Testament, Luke used the Greek word christos, which is the equivalent of the Hebrew word māšîaḥ, and which has been translated into English as Christ.

Act 4:26
The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

My point is that although the translators of the KJV only translated māšîaḥ as Messiah twice in the Old Testament, this does not mean that in other places where it was used, as in Psalm 2:2 that I just quoted you, it does not carry the same meaning of Messiah.

I will try to get to at least one of your other comments tomorrow.

I am sorry I misled you, I did not intend to.

Of course, I know that Messiah and anointed are derived from the same Hebrew word, as is Christ and anointed are the same Greek word. I assumed that point would be understood when I spoke of anointed ocurring more than a hundred times. I make the mistake of assuming that the other person understands what I am thinking. The point was that I am not as familiar with some phrases that do not occur in the bible. This is mainly because my mainstay for information is the bible.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

I am sorry I misled you, I did not intend to.

Of course, I know that Messiah and anointed are derived from the same Hebrew word, as is Christ and anointed are the same Greek word. I assumed that point would be understood when I spoke of anointed ocurring more than a hundred times. I make the mistake of assuming that the other person understands what I am thinking. The point was that I am not as familiar with some phrases that do not occur in the bible. This is mainly because my mainstay for information is the bible.

No worries. As long as you understand these things, I am good.

 

[tttallison]

You need to read more of the NT like I told you earlier. Many call themselves Christians, but are not

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23​

Christian means to be Christlike. If you are Christlike, you are most likely saved. The name Christian is a Latin word that was derived from Romans soldiers who considered it derogatory.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Christian means to be Christlike. If you are Christlike, you are most likely saved. The name Christian is a Latin word that was derived from Romans soldiers who considered it derogatory.

Act 11:25
Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
Act 11:26
And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Christian means to be Christlike. If you are Christlike, you are most likely saved. The name Christian is a Latin word that was derived from Romans soldiers who considered it derogatory.

Actually Christian means little Christ, like little Johnny. It was an endearing term Christians used to refer to themselves

G5546 Χριστιανός Christianos (chriy-stiy-a-nos') n/g.
1. (literally, familial) “Little Anointed” (as family name of endearment, like “Little Johnny” or “Little Susie”).

 

[vassal]

I hope you were not offended when I left out part of your post. I am sorry.

My background has left me unfamiliar with a lot of church terminology such as Messianic age. I am not sure of what that encompasses.
I would assume that it starts with the birth of Christ and ends with the last page of the book.

The term Messianic does not appear in my Bible, and the term Messiah appears just twice. Annointed occurs over a hundred times.

The word advent does not appear either. This may seem like mincing words, and I apologize. It is just that biblical words provide more clarity, at least for me.

I see that I did use the term, Messianic age, in a reciprocal way, but without understanding its complete meaning. Could you help me understand more fully your question on post 185?

I assure you no offence taken!

Men invent terms to describe concepts such as messianic age, millennial kingdom but is not important, what we think is not important.

What matters is what the bible says, the written word of God. the millennial age or millennial kingdom is to me the same means when Jesus returns in the end times at the end of Jacob's trouble this age will start and will last 1000 Years according to revelations.

Jesus the messiah, is describe in many terms such as;
Old Testament: Mashiach (Messiah), Son of David, Emmanuel, The Branch, Servant of the Lord.
New Testament: Christ, Son of David, Lord, Son of God, The Anointed One, King of the Jews.the alpha( begining) and the Omega( end) as written in the book of revelations.

they all point to Jesus Christ and prophecy about Him from the beginning of time to the end of time, he is one with GOD.

I will try to provide words and the proper scripture in the future so we may have a reference point.

I will write for you tomorrow about Jesus second coming and rephrase question in post 185 and explain with references and will keep short.

It is a bit late for me now, lets discuss tomorrow.

Blessings